Comedicles
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:08 pm

Official endorsements

Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:08 pm

Does the foundation have a procedure to endorse Raspberry Pi compatible hardware?

Sorry if this is a duplicate. I did a search of "endorse" and a few others. Too many unrelated hits to go through.

ShiftPlusOne
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 5452
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:36 pm
Location: The unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy

Re: Official endorsements

Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:48 am

I don't believe such a procedure exists. If you send something to the relevant contact address and it's exceptional, it might get on the blog, but that's about it.

Joe Schmoe
Posts: 4277
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:11 pm

Re: Official endorsements

Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:50 am

I suppose we'd like to know which of these describes the OP:
  1. He'd like to get something of his "endorsed".
  2. He's worried about buying or using something that isn't "endorsed".
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

Comedicles
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:08 pm

Re: Official endorsements

Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:16 pm

In this case it is about getting something endorsed or tested by knowledgeable users.

But it is also a general question for anyone (including me) who wants to produce devices that use the GPIO header.

Heater
Posts: 10864
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Official endorsements

Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:07 pm

Never mind "official" endorsements. The best endorsement you can have is the recommendation of people on this forum and around the net. Make a useful and good product that works as advertised and you are in business.

Official endorsements are for all that junk you can buy for your Windows machine :)

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 9542
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Official endorsements

Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:04 pm

Heater wrote:Never mind "official" endorsements. The best endorsement you can have is the recommendation of people on this forum and around the net. Make a useful and good product that works as advertised and you are in business.

Official endorsements are for all that junk you can buy for your Windows machine :)
Yup...and getting reputable retailers that we buy Pi-related items from to vet and stock your device will help, too.

Comedicles
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:08 pm

Re: Official endorsements

Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:31 pm

I have 10 or 20 of these to give away. http://andahammer.com/nanopi/ And 10 to go to our usual Linux team. We have been doing ARM for quite a while.

These are aimed at smaller computing load and lower power applications. For example the processor is slightly warm to the touch. I think it will go for ages with a Turnigy transmitter LiPo and a MuRata 3 pin DC/DC. Wireless IP camera looks like a cool project to me. At 400 MHz and 64M of RAM, there is plenty a Raspberry Pi will do and this won't. But also plenty it will. I wonder if it can handle Jasper? Right now we have Debian (Jessie as of the weekend) and Python with Qt running from MicroSD with plenty of RAM left. The other pretty cool feature is it will drive all the FriendlyARM really nice and affordable LCDs.

There is a lot of work to do on the Open Source code like perhaps a Python compatibility layer for the GPIO, the camera interface, and basically code to drive any typical Raspberry Pi peripherals that use the header. And of course, to see if the community accepts this idea as useful!

The Samsung S3C2451 is the follow on to the 2440 which is being EOL'd and is in everything. People may know them from hacking low end O'scopes. The 2451 can use 128M of RAM and I wish there had been room. There were size and power design goals that limited us to 64M but 64M has been plenty for Debian and Python with Qt for industrial apps on the 2440.

So, whaddaya think? Anyone up for some serious messing about with Open Source and gcc? I won't put a contact for evaluation units until I see how the feedback from Pi users looks. The repo will be managed by a computer scientist and grad students at two major U.S. universities. There is a Matrix of about 20 little sensor boards that we hope will grow rapidly.

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 9542
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Official endorsements

Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:07 am

Comedicles wrote:I have 10 or 20 of these to give away. [link removed --whh]
So, whaddaya think?
I think it's an unfortunate name to choose. Yes...I see you said why you picked it, but it's still a poor choice.

ame
Posts: 3172
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:21 am
Location: Korea

Re: Official endorsements

Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:25 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Comedicles wrote:I have 10 or 20 of these to give away. [link removed --whh]
So, whaddaya think?
I think it's an unfortunate name to choose. Yes...I see you said why you picked it, but it's still a poor choice.
I agree. It sounds too much like Banana Pi. Banano Pi, anyone?

Heater
Posts: 10864
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Official endorsements

Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:29 am

And this is why people like endorsements, certifications and so on.

So that when other companies leech off of your good name, reputation and trade mark customers might not be confused, duped, into buying something that is not what it seems.

Please don't tell us, Comedicles, that the name "nanopi" was chosen for any other reason.

User avatar
ukscone
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3992
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:51 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Official endorsements

Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:52 am

for what it's worth, i've had good dealings with ARMWorks (andahammer.com) in the past & if Comedicles is who I think he is then this is on the up and up.

Disclaimer: Comedicles might not be who i think he is but that doesn't mitagate the fact that i've had nothing but a good interactions with andahammer

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 9542
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Official endorsements

Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:28 am

ukscone wrote:for what it's worth, i've had good dealings with ARMWorks (andahammer.com) in the past & if Comedicles is who I think he is then this is on the up and up.

Disclaimer: Comedicles might not be who i think he is but that doesn't mitagate the fact that i've had nothing but a good interactions with andahammer
I'm not saying there is any problem with the product. I'm saying that making a small computer and ending the name with "pi" makes the company look like it's trying to ride the RPF coat tails. It's a cheap PR trick. It's trying to get a "piece of the action" by associating itself (by name) with the best selling SBC there is. The product may be fantastic, but it should stand (or fail) on it's own merits and not try to succeed by an explicit attempt at association with someone else's work.

User avatar
ukscone
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3992
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:51 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Official endorsements

Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:40 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:
ukscone wrote:for what it's worth, i've had good dealings with ARMWorks (andahammer.com) in the past & if Comedicles is who I think he is then this is on the up and up.

Disclaimer: Comedicles might not be who i think he is but that doesn't mitagate the fact that i've had nothing but a good interactions with andahammer
I'm not saying there is any problem with the product. I'm saying that making a small computer and ending the name with "pi" makes the company look like it's trying to ride the RPF coat tails. It's a cheap PR trick. It's trying to get a "piece of the action" by associating itself (by name) with the best selling SBC there is. The product may be fantastic, but it should stand (or fail) on it's own merits and not try to succeed by an explicit attempt at association with someone else's work.
yes I wish that they'd chosen a different name especially as they came on here trying to find out how to get an endorsement. bit of a cheek if you ask me but i'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they just didn't think it through properly. hopefully someone will have 2nd thoughts about it .

However, i'll ignore the name thing and just comment on past interactions h/w & support wise with them and say that while not upto raspberry pi foundation levels (nobody is) they do try and they are not one of those fly by night companies that dump a load of stuff then suddenly disappear leaving you with half working h/w.

[Double disclaimer: the above is no way a recommendation to buy or not to buy but IMHO if you have a need/use for the nano* then on a personal level i've had good dealings with the company principals & hopefully they'll think better of the name even if i do have to thwap them with a clue by four :) ]

User avatar
jojopi
Posts: 3055
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:38 pm

Re: Official endorsements

Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:13 am

The Foundation admit that "Raspberry" is ultimately a reference to Apple, and claim that "Pi" somehow refers to Python, which is certainly named after the much more famous Monty. I do not see how you can be happy with all this referential styling, and then suddenly draw the line at another use of "Pi".

RPF appear to endorse Pimoroni all the time, and their trading name consists entirely of "Pi" and the name of a prophet.

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 9542
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Official endorsements

Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:34 am

jojopi wrote:The Foundation admit that "Raspberry" is ultimately a reference to Apple, and claim that "Pi" somehow refers to Python, which is certainly named after the much more famous Monty. I do not see how you can be happy with all this referential styling, and then suddenly draw the line at another use of "Pi".

RPF appear to endorse Pimoroni all the time, and their trading name consists entirely of "Pi" and the name of a prophet.
I will grant you all those issues, though one should point out that Apple isn't the only other "fruity" computer name.

To do the same referential thing, a company could pick a different letter from the Greek--or some other--alphabet and no one would even blink. One could have a "Peach Rho" or a "Tangerine Gimel" SBC and everyone would probably laugh. Note that no one has a bad word for the banana part of the Banana Pi, even though there are some snickers about the--supposedly forthcoming--Lemon Pi, but that is much more the connotations of "lemon" as quality reference than anything else.

Note that none of this addresses hardware quality--either postive or negative. I am only dealing with naming practices.

Given the overall success of the Raspberry Pi (sales have got to be over 7 million by now), ending an SBC name in "Pi" is going to be seen as an attempt to associate any such board with the RPF. That makes such names a rather poor practice for any legitimate company.

User avatar
ukscone
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3992
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:51 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Official endorsements

Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:39 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Given the overall success of the Raspberry Pi (sales have got to be over 7 million by now)
i'm guesstimating(with no knowledge what so ever) that it's got to be nearer 8million than 7million by now. hopefully Eben or someone from the foundation will let us know as i have a gentleman's bet with a friend on date they sell the 10 millionth Pi

Comedicles
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:08 pm

Re: Official endorsements

Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:43 am

The name was chosen in China, where the designers consider it a tribute. FriendlyARM's QQ2440 and Mini2440 were the most popular Linux boards in China for years before Raspberry Pi or BBB. Chinese Universities have ARM specific classes and due to the FA boards used in education, the 2440 chip wound up in everything. Check all the low cost scopes for example. FriendlyARM was mostly introduced to the West by ARMWorks. So this isn't a coattails operation. It is meant to leverage off of some of the hardware that uses the GPIO header and to have familiar GPIO when using collections of simple sensors.

There is a small product roadmap that at the moment has several xxxxPi variations. I don't know if we could get a name change. The China side of the company loves it. FriendlyARM is now one of the owners of ARMWorks but that did not finalize until after the roadmap was done. A name change would solve some problems with resellers/copiers already making up their own logos as if they are the manufacturer and buying up related domain names.

When Apple had AppleWorks, I had ImageWorks (Pay up Sony!), a frame grabber for Apple II that also gave it 256 levels of gray. And later ARMWorks. I never heard a complaint about the names, and I knew some of the principals. http://comedicles.com/category/chapters/appleinc/

I'm mostly interested in response to a low power / smaller size application space, and if the name is going to be a problem for the people we most want to get involved.

Comedicles
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:08 pm

Re: Official endorsements

Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:53 pm

Note that this isn't being sold as Raspberry Pi compatible. If someone is saying that in announcements they are wrong. It obviously isn't. Close, but not the same. The Pi part is supposed to be just for the GPIO compatible header and it should always be described that way by sellers. I think when people see the displays some will find it a good fit.

We have a load coming tomorrow and I'll get some photos up with displays to get your opinions.

Comedicles
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:08 pm

Re: Official endorsements

Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:00 pm

Heater wrote:And this is why people like endorsements, certifications and so on.

So that when other companies leech off of your good name, reputation and trade mark customers might not be confused, duped, into buying something that is not what it seems.

Please don't tell us, Comedicles, that the name "nanopi" was chosen for any other reason.
Seriously, I had no idea if the foundation had an endorsement policy, perhaps with testing and QC and all that. If there was I would not expect it without thorough burn-in, a look at manufacturer reliability, software repo checkup for OS and licensing compliance, and good Github management, etc.

User avatar
mikronauts
Posts: 2670
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:28 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Official endorsements

Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:51 pm

Comedicles,

It looks like a neat little board, but I am somewhat unsure of what to think of it.

A 400Mhz 64Mb Linux SBC with WiFi + BlueTooth for $25 is potentially interesting for IOT applications, but unless the power draw is drastically lower, I am unsure of the benefit vs. a 256MB 700Mhz A+ with an inexpensive WiFi dongle that has significantly more existing software support.

I try to keep on top of the SBC marketplace (http://www.mikronauts.com/all-single-bo ... r-reviews/ and I have many more SBC's in my lab I have not reviewed) as I design and manufacture add-on boards so your eco-system is another potential market for me ... if your sales are high enough.

I will keep an eye on further developments :)
http://Mikronauts.com - home of EZasPi, RoboPi, Pi Rtc Dio and Pi Jumper @Mikronauts on Twitter
Advanced Robotics, I/O expansion and prototyping boards for the Raspberry Pi

Comedicles
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:08 pm

Re: Official endorsements

Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:29 pm

mikronauts wrote:Comedicles,

It looks like a neat little board, but I am somewhat unsure of what to think of it.

A 400Mhz 64Mb Linux SBC with WiFi + BlueTooth for $25 is potentially interesting for IOT applications, but unless the power draw is drastically lower, I am unsure of the benefit vs. a 256MB 700Mhz A+ with an inexpensive WiFi dongle that has significantly more existing software support.

I try to keep on top of the SBC marketplace (http://www.mikronauts.com/all-single-bo ... r-reviews/ and I have many more SBC's in my lab I have not reviewed) as I design and manufacture add-on boards so your eco-system is another potential market for me ... if your sales are high enough.

I will keep an eye on further developments :)
Hi mikronauts. The S3C2451 uses a newer process than the S3C2440. The Mini2451 ( http://andahammer.com/mini245/ ) has twice the RAM and more peripheral stuff than the NanoPi and uses 90mA at 5V with no display attached.

We get a shipment of NanoPi tomorrow and I'll run a test with a Turnigy RC transmitter LiPo and a MuRata 3 pin DC/DC that keeps the WiFi busy and see what we get with and without a 4.3 inch display turned on. I'll post something like amp-hour rating versus hours of operation on our home page and my blog.

ame
Posts: 3172
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:21 am
Location: Korea

Re: Official endorsements

Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:26 pm

Comedicles wrote:Note that this isn't being sold as Raspberry Pi compatible.
Then you have chosen a rather unfortunate name for it.

Comedicles
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:08 pm

Re: Official endorsements

Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:41 pm

What would you think of a family name with nicknames, like Debian Wheezy, Debian Squeeze, etc.

Turbogoose NanoPi, Tuborgoose DragonPi .....

Hmmm. Meps!

Comedicles
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:08 pm

Re: Official endorsements

Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:15 pm

NanoFi for WiFi? We may go for an a totally new naming scheme. Just name them after famous ships that sank on launching :-) Start with Vasa?

User avatar
ukscone
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3992
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:51 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Official endorsements

Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:18 pm

name them after famous quotes by giants from fairy tales. start with "FeeFiFoFum"

Return to “Off topic discussion”