W. H. Heydt
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Quote without comment... [Avagos / Broadcom takeover rumour]

Thu May 28, 2015 4:21 am

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/05/28 ... _broadcom/
It's about rumors that Avagos is getting ready to take over Broadcom. If it's true, and if they've got the timing correct, we'll know in a couple of days.

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Re: Quote without comment...

Thu May 28, 2015 5:50 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/05/28 ... _broadcom/
It's about rumors that Avagos is getting ready to take over Broadcom. If it's true, and if they've got the timing correct, we'll know in a couple of days.
Yawn... market posturing is lame... only a legal excuse for insider trading or fear mongering. There is a giant leap from 'acquisition target' to 'done deal'. No news here until someone signs the billion dollar contract.
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Re: Quote without comment...

Thu May 28, 2015 6:58 am

The raspberry pi is going to go through a major transition next generation with a new system on a chip not compatible with previous models. I have faith the raspberry pi will move ahead despite this deal which will happen more likely than not.
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Re: Quote without comment...

Thu May 28, 2015 7:18 am

metalj wrote:The raspberry pi is going to go through a major transition next generation with a new system on a chip not compatible with previous models. I have faith the raspberry pi will move ahead despite this deal which will happen more likely than not.
heh, that is exactly what I'm talking about... you already have an incompatible 'next generation RPi' designed and out the door based on a stupid market posturing blip on the Register which in all probability means squat... :lol:

calm down...


:roll:
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Re: Quote without comment... [Avagos / Broadcom takeover rum

Thu May 28, 2015 7:45 am

I'm pretty sure Eben said the next raspberry pi soc will not be backwards compatible. That's what I was referring to. My point was I'm staying positive. I am chill.
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Re: Quote without comment... [Avagos / Broadcom takeover rum

Thu May 28, 2015 8:27 am

metalj wrote:I'm pretty sure Eben said the next raspberry pi soc will not be backwards compatible. That's what I was referring to. My point was I'm staying positive. I am chill.
Referring to what? When or where did he say that? Prove it, or stop spreading rumors.
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Re: Quote without comment... [Avagos / Broadcom takeover rum

Thu May 28, 2015 8:31 am

metalj wrote:I'm pretty sure Eben said the next raspberry pi soc will not be backwards compatible. That's what I was referring to. My point was I'm staying positive. I am chill.
Are you sure? Because I've never heard that.
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Re: Quote without comment... [Avagos / Broadcom takeover rum

Thu May 28, 2015 8:37 am

Also, I sold every Broadcom share I had last week. And they went up $10 yesterday. Grrrr.....
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Re: Quote without comment... [Avagos / Broadcom takeover rum

Thu May 28, 2015 8:39 am

metalj wrote:I'm pretty sure Eben said the next raspberry pi soc will not be backwards compatible. That's what I was referring to. My point was I'm staying positive. I am chill.
Please can you post a link to either a Video, PodCast or Article to verify as I was under the impression that the basic design would stay the same. :!:

Considering the SoC in the RPi is a VPU with a CPU attached it is considerably different from other SoCs use in Lemon/Orange Boards :shock:
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Re: Quote without comment... [Avagos / Broadcom takeover rum

Thu May 28, 2015 2:01 pm

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Re: Quote without comment... [Avagos / Broadcom takeover rum

Thu May 28, 2015 3:36 pm

metalj wrote:I'm pretty sure Eben said the next raspberry pi soc will not be backwards compatible. That's what I was referring to. My point was I'm staying positive. I am chill.
Can you find a quote from him to that effect?

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Re: Quote without comment... [Avagos / Broadcom takeover rum

Thu May 28, 2015 3:39 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:Not a rumour no more

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32919602
Well...I did say (about The Register article) that if they were correct about it happening and the timing we'd know this week.

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Re: Quote without comment... [Avagos / Broadcom takeover rum

Thu May 28, 2015 3:53 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
metalj wrote:I'm pretty sure Eben said the next raspberry pi soc will not be backwards compatible. That's what I was referring to. My point was I'm staying positive. I am chill.
Can you find a quote from him to that effect?
Heh heh. This is such a fool's errand.

I mean, it's not like (if/when he does post a URL or whatever), you're going to admit that you were wrong. I've seen this a million times, on every online forum. What always happens is that the person who asked for the URL then attacks it and demonstrates (at least to his own satisfaction...) that it is not valid for whatever reason.

JK Galbraith quote comes to mind...
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

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Re: Quote without comment... [Avagos / Broadcom takeover rum

Thu May 28, 2015 4:02 pm

How To ask Questions :- http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
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Re: Quote without comment... [Avagos / Broadcom takeover rum

Thu May 28, 2015 4:27 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote: Considering the SoC in the RPi is a VPU with a CPU attached it is considerably different from other SoCs use in Lemon/Orange Boards :shock:
No, it's a GPU (aka a bus structure with memory controller, VPU, 3D core, and vaious other specialist cores) with an arm core tacked on. Other than minor details like the boot process the order in which bits were added to the bus isn't massively relavent.

What is more relavent is that on BCM2835 the arm core was the weakest point, so tacking on a better cluster of arm cores gave a massive improvement at (relatively) low cost/risk. On the BCM2836 OTOH the arm cores are relatively strong, it's the rest of the SoC that lets it down (core bus and memory controller limited to 1GB and using an older memory technology, heavy reliance on USB2 for IO etc). Making a successor to the 2836 that keeps a high level of compatibility (same GPIO perhiperals, same pin mux table) while addressing these issues would be a substantially more expensive project. than the 2836 was. Add that to the fact that the team who designed both the videocore GPU and the 2835/6 chips has been shut down and it's difficult to see how a successor with a high degree of compatibility could be made.

On the other hand we were all very surprised when the 2836 was revealed, I wouldn't rule out being surprised again.

P.S. The above is all my own opinions, I have no idea what the RPF are actually up to in this regard.

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Re: Quote without comment... [Avagos / Broadcom takeover rum

Thu May 28, 2015 5:00 pm

Swapping out the USB 2.0 peripheral with a USB 3.0 peripheral would cover a multitude of sins...
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Re: Quote without comment... [Avagos / Broadcom takeover rum

Thu May 28, 2015 6:35 pm

mikronauts wrote:Swapping out the USB 2.0 peripheral with a USB 3.0 peripheral would cover a multitude of sins...
It would still be limited by the USB 2.0 bus on the SoC. What would be needed (to meet your criterion) would be changing the SoC interface to USB 3.0, even if the LAN chip still only provided USB 2.0, since that would increase the aggregate data rate into (and out of) the SoC.

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Re: Quote without comment... [Avagos / Broadcom takeover rum

Thu May 28, 2015 8:00 pm

I saw every possible Eben interview and I swear he said the compatibility of the pi1 and pi2 was not possible for a pi3. Now I got to spend an hour rewatching interviews or admit I'm full of it.
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Re: Quote without comment... [Avagos / Broadcom takeover rum

Thu May 28, 2015 8:12 pm

metalj wrote:I saw every possible Eben interview and I swear he said the compatibility of the pi1 and pi2 was not possible for a pi3. Now I got to spend an hour rewatching interviews or admit I'm full of it.
Just admit it :roll:
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Re: Quote without comment... [Avagos / Broadcom takeover rum

Thu May 28, 2015 8:28 pm

metalj wrote:I saw every possible Eben interview and I swear he said the compatibility of the pi1 and pi2 was not possible for a pi3. Now I got to spend an hour rewatching interviews or admit I'm full of it.
I'm pretty sure I saw that same quote somewhere too.
It may have been someone else quoting (or paraphrasing) Eben, so it might not be totally accurate. But then again, it might be.

In any case, I assert both of the following:
  1. I'm not going on any fool's errand tracking it down, since, as I noted above, it wouldn't change anyone's mind.
  2. I do think that each new release of the Pi was basically incompatible with the previous, since, if you were a newuser, you always had to download a new version of the stuff anyway. I will get flamed for this, but, as the base level, it is true. Think of how many forum posts were of the form:

    Questioner: I just bought the latest model of Pi and it won't boot.
    Answerer: Did you download the latest firmware stuff?
    Questioner: No (sulks back into the shadows)
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Re: Quote without comment... [Avagos / Broadcom takeover rum

Thu May 28, 2015 8:44 pm

Joe Schmoe wrote:
metalj wrote:I saw every possible Eben interview and I swear he said the compatibility of the pi1 and pi2 was not possible for a pi3. Now I got to spend an hour rewatching interviews or admit I'm full of it.
I'm pretty sure I saw that same quote somewhere too.
It may have been someone else quoting (or paraphrasing) Eben, so it might not be totally accurate. But then again, it might be.

In any case, I assert both of the following:
  1. I'm not going on any fool's errand tracking it down, since, as I noted above, it wouldn't change anyone's mind.
  2. I do think that each new release of the Pi was basically incompatible with the previous, since, if you were a newuser, you always had to download a new version of the stuff anyway. I will get flamed for this, but, as the base level, it is true. Think of how many forum posts were of the form:

    Questioner: I just bought the latest model of Pi and it won't boot.
    Answerer: Did you download the latest firmware stuff?
    Questioner: No (sulks back into the shadows)
SEMANTICS :!:
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Re: Quote without comment... [Avagos / Broadcom takeover rum

Thu May 28, 2015 8:58 pm

Joe Schmoe wrote: Questioner: I just bought the latest model of Pi and it won't boot.
Answerer: Did you download the latest firmware stuff?
Questioner: No (sulks back into the shadows)[/list]
Heh....that's been true even with the same model but a different RAM manufacturer. (Don't you just love "standards"?)

The irony of the point is that "backwards compatibility" (and the companion feature of "upwards compatibility") is a product of the mid-1960s. One of the early "families" of (somewhat loosely speaking) compatible systems was the IBM System/360. Prior to that, when you got a new computer for your company, you had to rewrite (or at least recompile with varying degrees of change) *all* your programs to migrate from one system to another.

We haven't quite gone back to the pre-'60s situation (a lot of code will run not only on different CPUs in the same series, but even ones made by different manufacturers...thank ARM for that!). Now at least we get the "same" OS and, at worst, have to recompile a few things.

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Re: Quote without comment... [Avagos / Broadcom takeover rum

Thu May 28, 2015 9:23 pm

I forfeit. The closest thing I could find was the reason other clones may not compatible which is definitely not the same.
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Re: Quote without comment... [Avagos / Broadcom takeover rum

Thu May 28, 2015 9:26 pm

That's what I meant by swapping out the peripheral... I just did not state "in the SOC", I assumed it :)
W. H. Heydt wrote:
mikronauts wrote:Swapping out the USB 2.0 peripheral with a USB 3.0 peripheral would cover a multitude of sins...
It would still be limited by the USB 2.0 bus on the SoC. What would be needed (to meet your criterion) would be changing the SoC interface to USB 3.0, even if the LAN chip still only provided USB 2.0, since that would increase the aggregate data rate into (and out of) the SoC.
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Re: Quote without comment... [Avagos / Broadcom takeover rum

Fri May 29, 2015 1:47 am

metalj wrote:I forfeit. The closest thing I could find was the reason other clones may not compatible which is definitely not the same.
FWIW, I do seem to recall someone knowledgeable making a very good case for what you claim. I don't think it was Eben, but they might have mentioned his name or said they based that idea on information from Eben. I don't think it really matters.

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