jamesh
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Re: In search of a quiet mini-computer

Sat May 09, 2015 7:39 pm

I suspect more of a psychological response to spending money on a new device that perhaps isn't giving the hoped for benefits. Internal frustration that money might appear to be wasted.

Not true of course, the Pi2 is well worth upgrading to, but it is still not a complete desktop replacement device.
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Oskar
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Re: In search of a quiet mini-computer

Sat May 09, 2015 10:56 pm

aTao wrote:...Also of note is some peoples reported ability to pre-empt a mobile phone ringing
Links to peer reviewed studies please. (No, Rupert Sheldrake does not count, nor do anecdotes.) Note that if people can actually do this they would win the million dollar prize that clive links to above.

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bobstro
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Re: In search of a quiet mini-computer

Sat May 09, 2015 11:03 pm

My question is then: why my poor brain/body perceives the two apparently very similar devices so differently? Are there fellow Pi enthusiasts out there having similar experiences? If Pi 2 is so much "noisier", wouldn't the slower Raspberry Pi B (or B+) be a better device for children education than the faster Pi 2 line?
I'm going to assume that the OP means this as a Zen thing rather than any physical phenomenon. There is something to working with a simpler device, knowing it can only do so much. Once you have more horsepower, there's a tendency to use it and experience "feature creep". So perhaps he only means that the RPi 2 has lost some of its charm by becoming more like more powerful computers. If so, the good news is that the B+ and A+ are still available for anybody that wants to work out in the woods at Walden Pond. If you don't like the RPi 2, you still have affordable, actively supported options.

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Re: In search of a quiet mini-computer

Sat May 09, 2015 11:49 pm

Universes eh? Pop up out of nothing, scream "flying teapots in orbit around Jupiter!" and then completely refuse to provide any empirical evidence whatsoever .

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Re: In search of a quiet mini-computer

Sun May 10, 2015 1:01 am

stillness2health wrote:My question is then: why my poor brain/body perceives the two apparently very similar devices so differently? Are there fellow Pi enthusiasts out there having similar experiences?
My guess would be some high frequency regulator switching noise or similar. I had that with a DVR, noticed I was getting irritable and fidgety when it was powered-up and eventually found there was an almost imperceptible high pitch whine which correlated with my annoyance.

I was once in my local supermarket and after a few minutes just felt like screaming and had to get out of there. Eventually worked it out that all the fluorescent lights throughout the store were pulsating. Most people didn't even notice but a couple of others did.
stillness2health wrote:If Pi 2 is so much "noisier", wouldn't the slower Raspberry Pi B (or B+) be a better device for children education than the faster Pi 2 line?
Not unless it is provably problematic for their health. And if it were it would be better to fix whatever the problem was.

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Re: In search of a quiet mini-computer

Sun May 10, 2015 4:11 am

hippy wrote: My guess would be some high frequency regulator switching noise or similar. I had that with a DVR, noticed I was getting irritable and fidgety when it was powered-up and eventually found there was an almost imperceptible high pitch whine which correlated with my annoyance.
If it's that sort of issue for the OP, it would be worth finding out if it happens with the B+ as well as a Pi2B, but not with a Model B. If so, it would most likely be the improved power regulation. In any case, putting the Pi in an enclosure with acoustical damping might resolve the issue.

As for florescent lights...yes, some people are sensitive to them, but it's usually a sensitivity to the 120Hz flicker, more that a failing ballast making noise. Do you also have issues with CFL bulbs?

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Re: In search of a quiet mini-computer

Sun May 10, 2015 6:52 am

Oskar wrote:
aTao wrote:...Also of note is some peoples reported ability to pre-empt a mobile phone ringing
Links to peer reviewed studies please. (No, Rupert Sheldrake does not count, nor do anecdotes.) Note that if people can actually do this they would win the million dollar prize that clive links to above.
Actually I can quite often tell if my mobile phone is about to ring, or receive an SMS alert.

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Re: In search of a quiet mini-computer

Sun May 10, 2015 7:18 am

Oskar wrote:
aTao wrote:...Also of note is some peoples reported ability to pre-empt a mobile phone ringing
Links to peer reviewed studies please. (No, Rupert Sheldrake does not count, nor do anecdotes.) Note that if people can actually do this they would win the million dollar prize that clive links to above.
No, they would not win the prize since detecting and responding to a physical input is not paranormal.

Consider dowsing for water.. paranormal or not?
answer is not.
evidence:
1 it works
2 it works by sensing the effect an electro magnetic field has on a particular nerve cluster sited approximately between your shoulder blades (and mine and all other humans too). The effect is a stimulus that will twist your elbows outwards and can be amplified by dowsing rods.

Consider the ability that even when blindfolded and spatially confused, to point North.
again,not paranormal. There is a nerve cluster at the base of the neck which can respond to magnetic fields.

The ability to determine when a button is pressed on a remote control.
some people can see infra red.

Some people are more sensitive to electro magnetic radiation, whilst it is apparent (no pandemics that we have detected) that there is no general harm, it is possible that some individuals might suffer from exposure to modern devices.
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Re: In search of a quiet mini-computer

Sun May 10, 2015 7:33 am

aTao wrote: Consider dowsing for water.. paranormal or not?
answer is not.
evidence:
1 it works
2 it works by sensing the effect an electro magnetic field has on a particular nerve cluster sited approximately between your shoulder blades (and mine and all other humans too). The effect is a stimulus that will twist your elbows outwards and can be amplified by dowsing rods.
Dowsing does not work.

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Re: In search of a quiet mini-computer

Sun May 10, 2015 8:22 am

rpdom wrote: Actually I can quite often tell if my mobile phone is about to ring, or receive an SMS alert.
there is a lot of radio traffic 2 seconds before,
and anything with a wire and coil in proximity will quite often make a (barely) audible noise, maybe even the circuitry in the phone itself.

IMO people are unconciously aware of these sounds,
not picking up EMF themselves.
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Re: In search of a quiet mini-computer

Sun May 10, 2015 8:47 am

I assumed rpdom was just refering to his speakers going "dididididi" before his phone goes off.
Anecdotally, I had a friend in the 90s who always greeted everyone by name when they called him on the (land) phone, even before they had spoken.

Oskar
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Re: In search of a quiet mini-computer

Sun May 10, 2015 8:58 am

aTao wrote:
Oskar wrote:
aTao wrote:...Also of note is some peoples reported ability to pre-empt a mobile phone ringing
Links to peer reviewed studies please. (No, Rupert Sheldrake does not count, nor do anecdotes.) Note that if people can actually do this they would win the million dollar prize that clive links to above.
No, they would not win the prize since detecting and responding to a physical input is not paranormal.

Consider dowsing for water.. paranormal or not?
Not. Because under controlled conditions people cannot do it, they fail every time. (This is why we have the scientific method, because anecdotes and personal experience are a very bad way to understand how the world works).

If you can detect water or metal etc by dowsing then you will win 1 million dollars and cause us to rethink the laws of physics. No one has yet done so despite many trying.

Sunday morning reading list:

http://www.skeptics.com.au/publications ... ning-test/ <--- nice write up of a controlled test.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronom ... fraud.html
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-n ... 61/?no-ist
http://skepdic.com/dowsing.html
http://www.csicop.org/si/show/testing_d ... periments/

jamesh
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Re: In search of a quiet mini-computer

Sun May 10, 2015 9:06 am

I'm as scientific as they come, yet I have had success dowsing for pipes under lawns, and my father who used to work for the Environmental agency also used dowsing rods with some success.

Not controlled conditions of course, but I did find the pipes first time, and they were in an unexpected/non-obvious place i.e. not a straight line from source.
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Re: In search of a quiet mini-computer

Sun May 10, 2015 9:14 am

jamesh wrote:I'm as scientific as they come, yet I have had success dowsing for pipes under lawns, and my father who used to work for the Environmental agency also used dowsing rods with some success.

Not controlled conditions of course, but I did find the pipes first time, and they were in an unexpected/non-obvious place i.e. not a straight line from source.
Dowsing is still nonsense. Your results appeared good because of random chance in your favour.

The pipes were not in an unexpected place- you knew they were there somewhere.

The "some success" experienced by your father was probably matched by "some failure", but people tend not to remember those ones.

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Re: In search of a quiet mini-computer

Sun May 10, 2015 9:20 am

jamesh wrote:I'm as scientific as they come, yet I have had success dowsing for pipes under lawns, and my father who used to work for the Environmental agency also used dowsing rods with some success.

Not controlled conditions of course, but I did find the pipes first time, and they were in an unexpected/non-obvious place i.e. not a straight line from source.
But you *couldn't* do it under controlled conditions. No one can. You say you are scientific but then immediately try to prove a phenomenon with anecdotes. This is the antithesis of science. Please read the first of those links at least.

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Re: In search of a quiet mini-computer

Sun May 10, 2015 9:32 am

morphy_richards wrote:I assumed rpdom was just refering to his speakers going "dididididi" before his phone goes off.
Anecdotally, I had a friend in the 90s who always greeted everyone by name when they called him on the (land) phone, even before they had spoken.
I was indeed :-)

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Re: In search of a quiet mini-computer

Sun May 10, 2015 11:08 am

Oskar wrote:
jamesh wrote:I'm as scientific as they come, yet I have had success dowsing for pipes under lawns, and my father who used to work for the Environmental agency also used dowsing rods with some success.

Not controlled conditions of course, but I did find the pipes first time, and they were in an unexpected/non-obvious place i.e. not a straight line from source.
But you *couldn't* do it under controlled conditions. No one can. You say you are scientific but then immediately try to prove a phenomenon with anecdotes. This is the antithesis of science. Please read the first of those links at least.
I've never tried under controlled conditions, so you are making assumptions that I couldn't do it. I have no idea if I could or not. I can only go by my own empirical evidence. I found stuff, first go, in a place that was unexpected, and found nothing where I expected. I'm not being 'unscientific', I simply stating what actually happened in my circumstance. I'm not stating dowsing is a fact (whilst you are stating it isn't), simply giving my experience of trying it. Had I found stuff where I expected, then I would certainly believe that was a subconscious muscle movement. But finding stuff in an unexpected place was certainly odd because there would be no subconcious stuff involved.

Just for the record, dowsing using maps or for specific materials I simply do not believe. Dowsing whilst actually walking over the ground I could be convinced of due to my own experiences.
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Re: In search of a quiet mini-computer

Sun May 10, 2015 12:21 pm

rpdom wrote:
morphy_richards wrote:I assumed rpdom was just refering to his speakers going "dididididi" before his phone goes off.
Anecdotally, I had a friend in the 90s who always greeted everyone by name when they called him on the (land) phone, even before they had spoken.
I was indeed :-)
I can do better. I quite often know I'm going to receive a call or text a few seconds before (formal) notification. The phone screen comes out of sleep.

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Re: In search of a quiet mini-computer

Sun May 10, 2015 5:53 pm

I just wish I'd quit waking up 20 minutes before my alarm goes off.

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Re: In search of a quiet mini-computer

Sun May 10, 2015 9:52 pm

bobstro wrote:I just wish I'd quit waking up 20 minutes before my alarm goes off.
Just set the alarm for 20 minutes later than the time you want to be awake. :)
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Re: In search of a quiet mini-computer

Sun May 10, 2015 10:36 pm

stillness2health wrote:Hello,

Barely a few months ago, a chance encounter led me to the Raspberry Pi world of computer-science education, especially to kids and to a young generation surrounded by fast computing devices, in their hands, pockets and very quickly around their wrists. This commentary, however, is about some advantages of slowing down, instead of getting faster, especially noticing "demographic' shifts toward the newest Raspberry Pi, the 6X faster Pi 2 computer.

A few quick words about where I come from, which should enlighten the perspectives I just started to bring out: I am immersed and practice in the general field of data science/computational physics/DSP with a Ph.D. education in the late eighties, having seen high-performance laboratory computing going from Primer Computers (and remote IBM mainframes) to Vax, Sun, SGI and then to powerful PC-based Linux boxes/clusters. UnfortunateIy, my health got into trouble in the mist of this Internet/digital age, which prompted me to go through a cycle of electronic detoxification, especially to free myself from the excessive exposure of EMFs - Wi-Fi, cellphones etc. This is a very controversial topic nowadays, I know, but a feat practically impossible to achieve, until I discovered the little mini-computer, Raspberry Pi.

What I saw in Raspberry Pi (model B and later B+) is a little silent-running (to quote E. Upton) computer fast enough for all that browsing at home as well as for office work, using only a wire-feed for internet, not getting stuck with Wi-Fi (EMF) emissions like with many other computing devices (better yet, Wi-Fi dongles are available for Raspberry Pi when needed but you would know it is there since one has to plug them in first). The use of Raspberry Pi for daily work brought me back to the grad school days (late eighties) in the ability to think and to write, when at that time one had to visit a special computer center for dedicated tasks such data analysis and graphics visualization. For many years with desktop computing, there has not been a single day of work without muscle strains, eye problem, exhaustion and finally burn-out.....

Ok, what is the punch line? I rushed to acquire a Pi 2 as soon as it came out a month or so ago, thinking that i can afford a little more speed in launching an application or in making a PowerPoint (Oops, Impress) presentation. Unfortunately, no matter how many times I tried, I just can't get back the calmness I can have with using a Raspberry Pi B or B+. So much so, I would often get the same kind of frustrations facing a difficult task or a deadline as using a mainstream computer. So, why bother with the Pi 2 then?

My question is then: why my poor brain/body perceives the two apparently very similar devices so differently? Are there fellow Pi enthusiasts out there having similar experiences? If Pi 2 is so much "noisier", wouldn't the slower Raspberry Pi B (or B+) be a better device for children education than the faster Pi 2 line?

I look forward to comments and discussions with experts in this community.

Sincerely yours

Nick
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Re: In search of a quiet mini-computer

Sun May 10, 2015 11:38 pm

Op, consider the psychological possibility that the older pi is slower and so forced you and your brain to slow down in order to complete a task whereas the new pi is more akin to a smartphone and so it is able to complete the task much quicker causing you to speed up...

Its a possibility.

Unfortunately, unless you live in a very rural environment (50 miles+) away from power poles, radio towers, cellular towers, and other large emmiters, you are likely to receive more radiation from your environment than 15 pi 2's in series.
Last edited by gandar on Sun May 10, 2015 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ame
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Re: In search of a quiet mini-computer

Sun May 10, 2015 11:44 pm

I think the real explanation is that OP is trolling.

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Re: In search of a quiet mini-computer

Mon May 11, 2015 12:55 am

Hmm, there could be a deal more kindness in this thread. The OP asked an honest, if slightly unusual, question and is getting grief for even asking it.

Working with a computer that runs at a contemplative pace can be - if you're not up against someone else's deadline - a very relaxing thing. It takes its time to finish jobs, and you become used to that time, and being able to use it to do other things. Faster computers are always demanding attention.

I read of a mathematician (I think it was in James Gleick's Chaos) who used an early programmable calculator to work out complex astrophysics problems. While it was churning away, he took intermediate answers and worked on them, and really got to understand the underlying system better than had he used a fast computer. My wife had a similar experience writing her PhD on an Amstrad PCW (an old cheap 8-bit wordprocessor): the PCW used to scroll spellchecker text through the video text RAM as it didn't have enough memory to store the spelling dictionary and the document. You could just proof-read the text as it chugged by. When we migrated her thesis to a (then) state-of-the-art 486 running LocoScript, she was very agitated that the scroll/spellcheck feature was gone, as the new machine would do a whole chapter in a couple of seconds.

So maybe the single-core Model-B is the solution for the OP as a gentle introduction back into computing. In many ways, the Raspberry Pi feels a lot like those big old machines from the 80s (dynix on the Sequent Symmetry, represent!)
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ame
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Re: In search of a quiet mini-computer

Mon May 11, 2015 1:02 am

scruss wrote:Hmm, there could be a deal more kindness in this thread. The OP asked an honest, if slightly unusual, question and is getting grief for even asking it.
Because the post was peppered with woo. And it's brought out the tinfoil-hat brigade.

If OP found RPi2 to be too fast and exciting then he could buy an original Pi (or continue to use the one he has). There is no need to suggest that access to RPi2 should be restricted for everyone solely because of his opinion.

Successful troll is successful.

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