Heater
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Re: Is learning to code more difficult if you don't speak English?

Sun May 23, 2021 2:18 am

Back in the late 90's I took on the nice job of reverse engineering tens of thousands of lines of assembler written in Finland and recreating the functionality in C.

The assembler was easy enough, Intel x86 opcodes. The variable names were so short and cryptic that it really did not matter what language they came from. Luckily there was only about 10 lines of comments in the whole thing, in Swedish.

I would not normally call that "reverse engineering" but given the above and the total absence of any specifications or design documents I think it's valid.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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davidcoton
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Re: Is learning to code more difficult if you don't speak English?

Sun May 23, 2021 8:14 am

I led a team that had taken over code written by Russian programmers.
There was no documentation, and the comments were in Russian.
Pre Google Translate, too.
The solution was to hire a Russian speaking team ....
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Frits1956
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Re: Is learning to code more difficult if you don't speak English?

Sun May 23, 2021 10:38 am

Yes I find it very difficult. Not because of the keywords but the explaining what it is for en how to use it

Heater
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Re: Is learning to code more difficult if you don't speak English?

Sun May 23, 2021 12:11 pm

jamesh wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 10:32 am
dbrion06 wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 9:46 am
symbolism of predate logic.
what is predate logic (old fashioned one? predatoric one?)
I really do not know
I suspect predicate logic.
Ha! Quite so.

I swear my spelling has become much worse since I got this MacBook Pro and Safari has been "helpfully" substituting the wrong words for my typos instead of just underlining them in red. I must find out how to turn that off.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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davidcoton
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Re: Is learning to code more difficult if you don't speak English?

Sun May 23, 2021 3:00 pm

Heater wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 12:11 pm
MacBook Pro and Safari has been "helpfully" substituting the wrong words for my typos instead of just underlining them in red. I must find out how to turn that off.
A hammer works quite well for that :lol:

(Apologies for quoting in a way that subtly changes the meaning...)
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Heater
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Re: Is learning to code more difficult if you don't speak English?

Sun May 23, 2021 5:11 pm

davidcoton wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 3:00 pm
Heater wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 12:11 pm
MacBook Pro and Safari has been "helpfully" substituting the wrong words for my typos instead of just underlining them in red. I must find out how to turn that off.
A hammer works quite well for that :lol:
I take it you have a downer on MacBooks.

I never used a Mac til my partner had some kind of brain seizure and decided to blow some of our company money on new machines at the end of last year and I ended up with this M1 machine. I would never have dreamt of it. Turns out to be very good. It would be a shame to hammer it into submission.

Maybe I should get into the habit of using Chrome instead.
davidcoton wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 3:00 pm
(Apologies for quoting in a way that subtly changes the meaning...)
No worries.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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davidcoton
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Re: Is learning to code more difficult if you don't speak English?

Sun May 23, 2021 9:24 pm

Heater wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 5:11 pm
I take it you have a downer on MacBooks.
Regardless of my feelings, most hammers do. Downers with a high gravity-assisted velocity.

Personally, I have managed to avoid Macs almost entirely -- I think I met an early Lisa briefly, every other time I've met a (pre-Unix base) Mac OS I've had to run from the room screaming. Probably just a lack of familiarity, but after Windows and various flavours of Linux I've run out of working brain cells. Later versions could have improved, but given the cost of a Form-over-Function product I have no wish to find out.
I might add that other OSs have problems such as:
  • must change the form in every new version;
  • don't care at all about form.
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Heater
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Re: Is learning to code more difficult if you don't speak English?

Mon May 24, 2021 1:45 am

davidcoton wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 9:24 pm
Personally, I have managed to avoid Macs almost entirely -- I think I met an early Lisa briefly, every other time I've met a (pre-Unix base) Mac OS I've had to run from the room screaming. Probably just a lack of familiarity, but after Windows and various flavours of Linux I've run out of working brain cells.
I too had never used a Mac before.

Except briefly trying out the Lisa my friend bought back in the day. That thing was massively expensive. It broke down so many times in six months that eventually he demanded his money back. I guess that put me off the whole Apple idea.
davidcoton wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 9:24 pm
Later versions could have improved, but given the cost of a Form-over-Function product I have no wish to find out.
I'm not sure I see the "cost of a Form-over-Function product" problem.

The thing is:

The Mac has a Unix under the hood. So a lot of the form and function I interact with is very similar to Linux. I use all the same command line tools, scripts, compilers, interpreters etc that I would use on a Linux box. This is a good thing in my book.

The Mac also runs familiar GUI tools, Inscape, VS Code, Chrome, KiKad etc that I would be using on Linux. Also a good thing.

The bonuses being: This M1 machine is likely the fastest computer I have ever owned. Certainly the fastest, lightest laptop. Certainly the most efficient with the longest battery life.

As for cost, I think it was about the same price as the old MS Surface Pro 4 I was using. Which being a Windows machine was a lot more of pain to work with. And whose battery exploded!

All in all the MacBook form and function is working very well, sometimes I forget it is not my Linux box when I'm using it with my big monitor.

Of course my enthusiasm will likely falter when it breaks down and is impossibly expensive to repair. Or the batteries fails, etc, etc.
Last edited by Heater on Mon May 24, 2021 4:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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jahboater
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Re: Is learning to code more difficult if you don't speak English?

Mon May 24, 2021 4:03 am

Heater wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 1:45 am
The bonuses being: This M1 machine is likely the fastest computer I have ever owned. Certainly the fastest, lightest laptop. Certainly the most efficient with the longest battery life.
Sounds appealing, is it possible to install Linux on an M1? (Edit: looks like you can!)

My last job was advanced backup software on many platforms (Windows, MAC's, Linux, various UNIX'en). MacOS was by far the most frustrating to work with and I'll never buy a machine with it on. I hated it.

Linux was a dream as was Solaris. HP-UX is OK. AIX is always a pain, but nothing like MacOS.
Windows is weird and different, but that's as expected, its always been so, and apart from the nightmare security model is reasonably capable.

When you approach MacOS, you think Aha, its UNIX, and get a warm feeling. Soon to be dashed when you find its loosely based on an ancient version of BSD from about 30 years ago. All the usual tools are hopelessly out of date. Many things have been unsympathetically altered making systems programming very difficult. I doubt they even know what POSIX is. (That was ten years ago, may be different now).

Pertinent to this question, localization on the MAC is non-existent and they don't understand keyboards and mice. The choice for keyboard layout was just "US", "Europe", or "Other"! Take a look at the Raspi-config localization options for comparison, and Windows is superb in this respect. I still see MAC's in the store with US keyboard's (in the UK), whereas all the Windows machines have the correct UK keyboards. Even MAC enthusiasts would not use a MAC mouse.

Heater
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Re: Is learning to code more difficult if you don't speak English?

Mon May 24, 2021 4:37 am

jahboater wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 4:03 am
Sounds appealing, is it possible to install Linux on an M1? (Edit: looks like you can!)
Yeah. I'm looking forward to trying out Linux on the M1. Although I really don't have a pressing need for it. MacOS does so much of what I expect from Linux anyway.
jahboater wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 4:03 am
Windows is weird and different, but that's as expected, its always been so, and apart from the nightmare security model is reasonably capable.
Windows was all but useless to me until Win 10. Hence over two decades of Linux only in my life at work and play.

Win 10 was the first usable operating system MS made when the Windows Subsystem for Linux arrived.
jahboater wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 4:03 am
When you approach MacOS, you think Aha, its UNIX, and get a warm feeling. Soon to be dashed when you find its loosely based on an ancient version of BSD. All the usual tools are hopelessly out of date. Many things have been unsympathetically altered making systems programming very difficult. I doubt they even know what POSIX is. (That was ten years ago, may be different now).
I have no idea about BSD or it's evolution. It all feels much like Linux at first sight. Although I have installed a few command line tools from Homebrew on finding the MacOS versions don't have the same options or work quite the same as the GNU ones.

Given that I can install the latest GCC and Clang, also Node.js, Rust, Vim VS Code etc and they have all been working as expected I have no complaints about it's "unixyness"
jahboater wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 4:03 am
Pertinent to this question, localization is non-existent and they don't understand keyboards and mice. The choice for keyboard layout was just "US", "Europe", or "Other"! Take a look at the Raspi-config localization options for comparison, and Windows is superb in this respect. I still see MAC's in the store with US keyboard's (in the UK), whereas all the Windows machines have the correct UK keyboards. Even MAC enthusiasts would not use a MAC mouse.
I don't think that is true. My MacBook has a Finnish keyboard layout. A lot of the time it's on my desk connected to a big Samsung monitor and wireless DELL keyboard and mouse. The keyboard has a US layout. The mouse is a regular two buttons and wheelie. In the system preferences I see there are thousands of options for locale and keyboard layout settings. Much as I'm used to on Windows or Linux.

I'm sure one could program a MacBook in whatever human language.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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Harymol
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Re: Is learning to code more difficult if you don't speak English?

Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:00 am

I think this is partly true. If you have at least a basic knowledge of English, it will be easier for you to understand everything and remember the combinations. In any case, you can always go to the courses. I think it will be enough for you to know 3000 spoken English sentences to talk freely on everyday topics. And about the same number of words, perhaps less. If you are serious and want to work for global companies, then you should constantly improve your skills, language so that you are recommended, and we can earn more money.

Unsatisfied Cat
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Re: Is learning to code more difficult if you don't speak English?

Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:53 am

I believe that it is not necessary to learn a language in general. For coding, it is necessary just to know basic words that are used in code. That is not so hard, as I think
Last edited by Unsatisfied Cat on Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

RandyWhite
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Re: Is learning to code more difficult if you don't speak English?

Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:58 am

I am not so competent in this language and I hope that it will not be a problem for me, when I will learn coding

Goober
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Re: Is learning to code more difficult if you don't speak English?

Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:05 am

As a person who is working in this sphere for several years, I can say that it is enough to know basic words and prepositions that are used in a programming language. All my colleagues that had problems with this aspect just learned it quickly with the help of language apps like duolingo or babbel. I used preply and worked with a tutor for that aim, but I can't say that other applications are bad. Every person chooses what he likes and in my situation, the work with a tutor was the best decision.

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