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jahboater
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New book by Brian Kernighan.

Sun May 02, 2021 6:17 pm

Its called UNIX, A History and Memoir.

ISBN 9781695978553

Very interesting.
Lots about the early days of much that we use now.

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neilgl
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Re: New book by Brian Kernighan.

Sun May 02, 2021 6:35 pm

Thanks

ejolson
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Re: New book by Brian Kernighan.

Sun May 02, 2021 7:28 pm

jahboater wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 6:17 pm
Its called UNIX, A History and Memoir.

ISBN 9781695978553

Very interesting.
Lots about the early days of much that we use now.
My understanding is that book has been out since October 2019. I think the new book this year is

https://press.princeton.edu/books/paper ... ital-world

though it's just a second edition.

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neilgl
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Re: New book by Brian Kernighan.

Tue May 04, 2021 11:27 am

Ta

LizzieS
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Re: New book by Brian Kernighan.

Wed May 05, 2021 8:45 am

He published a new book in March, but it's Understanding the Digital World, not UNIX, A History and Memoir.

jamesh
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Re: New book by Brian Kernighan.

Wed May 05, 2021 12:52 pm

Does he explain why he used that insane bracketing system....?
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Working in the Application's Team.

6by9
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Re: New book by Brian Kernighan.

Wed May 05, 2021 12:55 pm

jamesh wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 12:52 pm
Does he explain why he used that insane bracketing system....?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Trading. Views expressed are still personal views.
I'm not interested in doing contracts for bespoke functionality - please don't ask.

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davidcoton
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Re: New book by Brian Kernighan.

Wed May 05, 2021 1:48 pm

jamesh wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 12:52 pm
Does he explain why he used that insane bracketing system....?
Because it's better than the insane whitespace system used in Python? :lol: :roll: :twisted: :shock: :o ;)
Location: 345th cell on the right of the 210th row of L2 cache

drgeoff
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Re: New book by Brian Kernighan.

Wed May 05, 2021 3:02 pm

jamesh wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 12:52 pm
Does he explain why he used that insane bracketing system....?
The fallback answer to such questions when a better one is not available is:

"It seemed like a good idea at the time".

I daresay RPF/RPT may even have used it on occasion. :)
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

ejolson
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Re: New book by Brian Kernighan.

Wed May 05, 2021 3:12 pm

drgeoff wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 3:02 pm
jamesh wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 12:52 pm
Does he explain why he used that insane bracketing system....?
The fallback answer to such questions when a better one is not available is:

"It seemed like a good idea at the time".

I daresay RPF/RPT may even have used it on occasion. :)
What's a bracketing system?

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DougieLawson
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Re: New book by Brian Kernighan.

Wed May 05, 2021 4:06 pm

jamesh wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 12:52 pm
Does he explain why he used that insane bracketing system....?
Because, he thought the ALGOL BEGIN...END system was insane.
That was clearly setting a precedent for ever more insane block delimiters until python won the trophy.
Any language using left-hand whitespace for syntax is ridiculous

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.
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Heater
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Re: New book by Brian Kernighan.

Wed May 05, 2021 4:07 pm

jamesh wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 12:52 pm
Does he explain why he used that insane bracketing system....?
Wow. Never expected such a language wars troll comment from a moderator here :)

But here we go...

Seems clear to me. ALGOL introduced block structure to programming languages and used "begin" and "end" to delimit blocks. Which seems quite reasonable to me.

C came along and abbreviated that to "{" and "}". Which also seems reasonable given that blocks are written so often in a program.

Forgoing all that for the wobbly mess that is white space delimiting, which is clearly insane.
Last edited by Heater on Wed May 05, 2021 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

emma1997
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Re: New book by Brian Kernighan.

Wed May 05, 2021 4:12 pm

davidcoton wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 1:48 pm
Because it's better than the insane whitespace system used in Python?
Careful, not always wise to poke a stick at religious arguments around here. Specially when acolytes wield power of life and death. lol

Although I must admit initially coming from BASIC/ASM background, the parens/brackets can throw you for a loop. Of course the 'language of the serpent' suffers similarly. However does seem to help if you need to get things done but don't particularly like to type.

FORTRAN not so bad but you can imagine how things went with attempts at Algol, Forth, Lisp, etc etc etc...

BTW K&R (what I call C minus minus) is my favorite. For me all this ANSI, ISO, plus-plus BS to be avoided whenever possible.

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jahboater
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Re: New book by Brian Kernighan.

Wed May 05, 2021 4:15 pm

Heater wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 4:07 pm
Seems clear to me. ALGOL introduced block structure to programming languages and used "begin" and "end" to delimit blocks. Which seems quite reasonable to me.

C came along and abbreviated that to "{" and "}". Which also seems reasonable given that it is written so often in a program.

Forgoing all that for the wobbly mess that is white space delimiting is clearly insane.
They are all crazy (open control constructs).

Algol 68 and others had IF .... FI, CASE ... ESAC, DO ... OD and so on, which are obviously safer since they must match up (to a degree).

An END or } could match any random clause start.

Heater
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Re: New book by Brian Kernighan.

Wed May 05, 2021 4:26 pm

emma1997 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 4:12 pm
Although I must admit initially coming from BASIC/ASM background, the parens/brackets can throw you for a loop.
How so?

BASIC has the same parens/brackets. Except they are "GOSUB"/"RETURN", "FOR"/"NEXT". Hardly such a conceptual leap to "BEGIN"/"END" and then "{"/"}".
emma1997 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 4:12 pm
Of course the 'language of the serpent' suffers similarly.
The language serpent is no serpent. It was named after a famous British comedy show. Clearly it was a joke. A joke that has gone horribly wrong and taken far to seriously by those that did not get it.
emma1997 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 4:12 pm
BTW K&R (what I call C minus minus) is my favorite. For me all this ANSI, ISO, plus-plus BS to be avoided whenever possible.
Excellent troll post. I have no idea how to respond to that...
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

thatchunkylad198966
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Re: New book by Brian Kernighan.

Wed May 05, 2021 4:32 pm

Sorry to sound ignorant but who?

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DougieLawson
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Re: New book by Brian Kernighan.

Wed May 05, 2021 4:35 pm

thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 4:32 pm
Sorry to sound ignorant but who?
Is Google borkened in Brum today? Must be the bad weather causing that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Kernighan

His collaboration with Dennis Ritchie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Ritchie makes him infamous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmYhR8cUX90
Any language using left-hand whitespace for syntax is ridiculous

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.
Fake doctors - are all on my foes list.

Any requirement to use a crystal ball or mind reading will result in me ignoring your question.

emma1997
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Re: New book by Brian Kernighan.

Wed May 05, 2021 4:56 pm

Heater wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 4:26 pm
emma1997 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 4:12 pm
Although I must admit initially coming from BASIC/ASM background, the parens/brackets can throw you for a loop.
How so?

BASIC has the same parens/brackets. Except they are "GOSUB"/"RETURN", "FOR"/"NEXT".
I have probably never mentioned this before but I have EXTREME aversion to typing. Almost as much as I hate clicking.

I want a language that, when installed on proper hardware, reads my mind or at least follows simple voice commands. IE "Create program that opens and closes PV shutters at sunrise/sunset".

BTW anybody get the 'for a loop' pun? lol. tap...tap... is this thing on?

nevermind...

Heater
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Re: New book by Brian Kernighan.

Wed May 05, 2021 5:12 pm

emma1997 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 4:56 pm
I have probably never mentioned this before but I have EXTREME aversion to typing. Almost as much as I hate clicking.
Exactly. I can sympathise with that. Especially the clunky mouse click, click business.

That is why my editor puts "{" and "}" on new lines with appropriate indentation as I type them. Saves all that annoying typing of return and space/tab etc.

Of course my editor can only do that because I use sensible block structured languages with delimiters.
emma1997 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 4:56 pm
I want a language that, when installed on proper hardware, reads my mind or at least follows simple voice commands. IE "Create program that opens and closes PV shutters at sunrise/sunset".
In my case the world would be in great danger if computers just did whatever random junk of thoughts were in my mind most of the time :)
emma1997 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 4:56 pm
BTW anybody get the 'for a loop' pun? lol. tap...tap... is this thing on?
He he. Exceptionally funny.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

thatchunkylad198966
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Re: New book by Brian Kernighan.

Wed May 05, 2021 7:02 pm

DougieLawson wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 4:35 pm
thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 4:32 pm
Sorry to sound ignorant but who?
Is Google borkened in Brum today? Must be the bad weather causing that.
Bad weather, yes. :lol:
I should've looked on Google first; my bad. :mrgreen:

andrum99
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Re: New book by Brian Kernighan.

Wed May 05, 2021 8:13 pm

Nice to see a Babage bear, complete with Raspberry Pi logo, behind him in that interview :)

Nata Herman
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Re: New book by Brian Kernighan.

Wed May 19, 2021 7:40 am

Oh thanks, I haven't read this book yet.

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