ankith26
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Just an idea

Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:23 am

So I have heard that it has been very difficult to make the pi4, to fit it within the same size as the previous versions.
And in the future pi, the problem of adhering to the form factor will still remain.

My question is why take so much difficulty of designing the PCB to fit in the same size,

Imagine a new ‘C’ lineup of raspberry pi (like 4C, 4C+ and 5C) where the form factor is double.

This is just my two cents..
I sat thinking for 5 minutes on what to put here. Finally I put something like this.
Check out my github page @ https://github.com/ankith26

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Just an idea

Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:28 am

ankith26 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:23 am
So I have heard that it has been very difficult to make the pi4, to fit it within the same size as the previous versions.
And in the future pi, the problem of adhering to the form factor will still remain.

My question is why take so much difficulty of designing the PCB to fit in the same size,

Imagine a new ‘C’ lineup of raspberry pi (like 4C, 4C+ and 5C) where the form factor is double.

This is just my two cents..

Do you really believe that Raspberry Pi Trading have not explored any other form factors, jeez....
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ankith26
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Re: Just an idea

Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:29 am

Yeah, they have made the pi smaller, never bigger.
I sat thinking for 5 minutes on what to put here. Finally I put something like this.
Check out my github page @ https://github.com/ankith26

ankith26
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Re: Just an idea

Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:31 am

And then there’s this compute model , but that does not qualify as a “standard” pi.
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ejolson
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Re: Just an idea

Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:53 am

ankith26 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:23 am
So I have heard that it has been very difficult to make the pi4, to fit it within the same size as the previous versions.
From my perspective, saying something is very difficult and then doing it anyway is mostly for drama and effect.

Making the Pi 4B was not impossible: It's done and shipping. The intended message appears to be, if the engineers are sufficiently clever, the circuit board will be small. Note that once designed, smaller boards are also cheaper as well as more convenient. Thus, provided you don't mind the bragging, the result is one of the few truly win-win situations.

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Re: Just an idea

Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:16 am

The first prototype was larger, then we spent a load of time rerouting the pcb to make it all fit.

We dont want bigger.

Edit: Also, larger PCB's are more expensive, and when you run on the margins we do, even a few mm can make quite the difference. Also, what about having to design and manufacture different case sizes? It all adds up. Keeping to the same form factor, as much as we can, is definitely a good thing.
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LTolledo
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Re: Just an idea

Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:36 am

I like/prefer the current/present size....

for custom (larger) board size with custom layout.... maybe that may be negotiated with Farnel and/or (forgot the other one).
but then.... it will most definitely be expensive, and requires a minimum order quantity (is it 100,000 units?)

two cents wont cover it all... :mrgreen:
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jahboater
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Re: Just an idea

Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:30 am

Its remains a "credit card" sized desktop computer which is pretty cool!
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hippy
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Re: Just an idea

Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:32 am

I imagine that if there ever comes a time when all they want to fit on a credit card sized board doesn't fit they will either increase board size or add another credit card sized board which attaches beneath the Pi, perhaps on top with GPIO pass-through, but that presents issue with heat and the PoE HAT.

It's not worth worrying over how they would do it until the time comes and it will probably be delivered as a fait accompli.

Heater
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Re: Just an idea

Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:16 pm

ejolson wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:53 am
From my perspective, saying something is very difficult and then doing it anyway is mostly for drama and effect.
That seems a tad too negative a view to me. To be fair:

1) There was no pre-announcement of any "very difficult" thing. It was done when it was done and then released. No drama.

2) Any comment to the effect that is was difficult came later.

3) Any such comment is actually true!

What is your perspective anyway? Have you ever designed and laid out such a complex printed circuit board with the constraints of cost and size? Pull up a copy of KiCad and try it.

As to the original posters question: Yes of course one could double the size of the board to make life easy for the designers. But immediately you have a more expensive product that is not a drop in replacement for any previous Pi. For sure it would not sell. Disaster.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

hippy
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Re: Just an idea

Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:14 pm

Heater wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:16 pm
Yes of course one could double the size of the board to make life easy for the designers. But immediately you have a more expensive product that is not a drop in replacement for any previous Pi. For sure it would not sell. Disaster.
To quote yourself; "That seems a tad too negative a view to me". There will be criticism, whinging, self-righteous indignation, all manner of toys being thrown out of prams, plus all the rest, but I don't believe it wouldn't sell or would be a disaster.

It might not be what's most desirable or desired but the bottom line is, if things don't fit, one either does without or finds a way to do it, even if it upsets some people. Same too for the $35 baseline price.

If it were "we can stick with credit card size and $35 or go large and give what you say you want, even need, for a slight price jump", then what do you think most people would say ?

"Bring it on!", though the collective audience would probably want both, a cheaper option plus the whizz-bang full-on kit.

Besides, marketing will play a big part; "twice the size, but more than twice as good!" will have people desperate to buy one, especially when that's true.

alphanumeric
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Re: Just an idea

Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:30 pm

Not that it matters, but I'm fine with the current form factor. ;) :P
A couple more official Pi Foundation Hats would be something I could get into. Go up not out. :)
One with a cooling fan for the Pi 4B, and maybe a RTC in the space left over. Plug and play with the Hat ID eeprom code.
It would be optional, buy one if you want one etc. IMHO there is a big market out there for addons / Hats.
I don't know about anybody else, but just about every Pi I have in use has something plugged into the GPIO header. Some have multiple i2c etc devices connected. I have one Pi A+ that has two proto hats stacked on top of it plus a sense hat on top of that, 4 deep.

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davidcoton
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Re: Just an idea

Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:53 pm

I want it smaller. :o
I want it faster. :shock:
I want it cooler. 8-)
I want it cheaper. :roll:
I want more connectivity. :evil:
I want more RAM. :twisted:
I want more cache. :ugeek:
I want it NOW. :P
And I want it with a Pink Pony one side, and a Unicorn on the other. :lol:
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Imperf3kt
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Re: Just an idea

Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:55 am

davidcoton wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:53 pm
I want it smaller. :o
I want it faster. :shock:
I want it cooler. 8-)
I want it cheaper. :roll:
I want more connectivity. :evil:
I want more RAM. :twisted:
I want more cache. :ugeek:
I want it NOW. :P
And I want it with a Pink Pony one side, and a Unicorn on the other. :lol:
You** can have all that (except maybe the last three), but it won't be cheap
element14

** Yes yes, I know you specifically don't want these things and that your post was satirical
55:55:44:44:4C
52:4C:52:42:41

ankith26
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Re: Just an idea

Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:36 am

davidcoton wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:53 pm
I want it smaller. :o
I want it faster. :shock:
I want it cooler. 8-)
I want it cheaper. :roll:
I want more connectivity. :evil:
I want more RAM. :twisted:
I want more cache. :ugeek:
I want it NOW. :P
And I want it with a Pink Pony one side, and a Unicorn on the other. :lol:
Hmm, missing a few stuff.
The next pi has to be unicorn rainbow powered, forget usb- c.
It must be organic, I must be able to bury it and make it a manure for my flowers after 10 years of use.
It has to be dishwasher safe just in case it falls into that machine.

But most importantly,
It needs to come with that toaster for my bread.
I sat thinking for 5 minutes on what to put here. Finally I put something like this.
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alphanumeric
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Re: Just an idea

Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:18 am

You can get a "Unicorn Hat" here, https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/unicorn-hat-hd and make it display Pink Pony if you want. :P

ankith26
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Re: Just an idea

Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:26 am

But that hat is costing more than the pi itself :D
I sat thinking for 5 minutes on what to put here. Finally I put something like this.
Check out my github page @ https://github.com/ankith26

Heater
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Re: Just an idea

Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:29 pm

Wow, I want a unicorn ... HAT.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

alphanumeric
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Re: Just an idea

Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:39 pm

I have a Unicorn Hat HD. For what its worth, the Sense Hat 8 x 8 LED matrix is a lot easier to use and code for. And has some extra bits to play with.
The Unicorn Hat is in a way a high def version of that matrix, that can I think, do more. You'll need some codding skills to get it done though.

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