obachi
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Where can I solder my power supply cable to Pi3 platine?

Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:41 pm

Hi there,
does anyone know where I can solder the power supply cabling best onto the Pi 3 model B platine? Unfortunately I cannot find anything regarding this in the web :cry:
thanks in advance

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davidcoton
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Re: Where can I solder my power supply cable to Pi3 platine?

Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:13 pm

Do you mean to solder to the PCB? (Neither Google translate nor I recognise "platine" as an English word.) There is a schematic here which identifies the test points. PP1 and PP2 for 5V, PP3-PP6 for ground. These ensure that you keep the reverse polarity and overvoltage protection. Other connection points may bypass it, which is not recommended.
"If it ain't broke, fix it until it is."
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obachi
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Re: Where can I solder my power supply cable to Pi3 platine?

Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:24 pm

Oops, yes, I meant the board.
I want to avoid to use the micro usb plug.
Thanks so much for your quick response.
Am I right connecting positive 5V to pp1 and negative to pp3?

Heater
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Re: Where can I solder my power supply cable to Pi3 platine?

Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:38 pm

"platine" is French for some kind plate. No doubt from the Latin plata. Or the Greek platys

It's obvious enough for any English speaker to guess is it not ?

Personally I would just connect to the 5v and GND pins on the GPIO header. Saves messing about soldering to those tiny pads.

You might want to take precautions not to plug power backwards.

klricks
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Re: Where can I solder my power supply cable to Pi3 platine?

Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:56 pm

obachi wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:24 pm
Oops, yes, I meant the board.
I want to avoid to use the micro usb plug.
Thanks so much for your quick response.
Am I right connecting positive 5V to pp1 and negative to pp3?
Yes 5V on PP1 or PP2.
I prefer to use on of the port shield hold down pads for ground. The pads are much larger and more robust.
Go here for my RPi writeup. Basic config, Serial Port add-on etc:
http://blackeagle12.net/Comp/RPi/Rpi.html Click contact icon then world icon --->

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davidcoton
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Re: Where can I solder my power supply cable to Pi3 platine?

Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:06 pm

Heater wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:38 pm
"platine" is French for some kind plate. No doubt from the Latin plata. Or the Greek platys

It's obvious enough for any English speaker to guess is it not ?
I guessed so -- but when I checked Google traslate only came up with "Platinum" and I wanted to check that I had understood correctly. Experience suugests it is bettwer to flag possible misunderstandings first, rather than sort out the mess afterwards.
Heater wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:38 pm
Personally I would just connect to the 5v and GND pins on the GPIO header. Saves messing about soldering to those tiny pads.

You might want to take precautions not to plug power backwards.
Personally, I wouldn't do that -- for the reasons I gave in my first reply. I believe you (Heater) have had occasion to be grateful for the protection (specifically D5)? And to regret not replacing D5 when it failed and you removed it?
"If it ain't broke, fix it until it is."
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W. H. Heydt
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Re: Where can I solder my power supply cable to Pi3 platine?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:45 am

obachi wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:24 pm
I want to avoid to use the micro usb plug.
You've gotten answers. I'm curious as to why you don't want to use the normal microUSB power connector. It is, after all, what it's there for...

Heater
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Re: Where can I solder my power supply cable to Pi3 platine?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:17 am

davidcoton,
I believe you (Heater) have had occasion to be grateful for the protection (specifically D5)? And to regret not replacing D5 when it failed and you removed it?
What an excellent memory you have. Yes, I do have my moments. In that case it was me not checking that my PSU was switched to 5v and applying 12v to the Pi as a result. Twice!

So, going through the USB socket did not save me. I might as well have been connected to the GPIO header.

W. H. Heydt,
I'm curious as to why you don't want to use the normal microUSB power connector. It is, after all, what it's there for...
I can't speak for the OP but the micro-usb connection is mechanically unsound. It's not a reliable connection unless you want to hot glue the thing in there or some such.

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Imperf3kt
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Re: Where can I solder my power supply cable to Pi3 platine?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:28 am

Funny, all the micro USB-B ports I've ever used are very sturdy.
Several dozen times I've picked up my mobile phone by the USB cable after it fell to the floor from my bedside table by some force pulling the cable,
Other times I've left reasonably heavy devices hanging, suspended entirely by the Micro USB cable, for lack of somewhere to place them.
I am yet to see the micro USB port fail to stay connected under even reasonably negligent treatment.
Pi3b - 'normal use' temperature (25% CPU load) 76℃, ambient 21℃

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rpdom
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Re: Where can I solder my power supply cable to Pi3 platine?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:29 am

I've had no problems with the microUSB on any of my 20+ Raspberrys. My mobile phone on the other hand is a pain, which is why I've resorted to using wireless charging on it most of the time.

Heater
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Re: Where can I solder my power supply cable to Pi3 platine?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:19 am

Imperf3kt and rpdom,

Your anecdotes about the ruggedness of micro-usb connections is great and all. But there are times when micro-usb connections are sloppy and unreliable or fail totally. Not to mention that those sockets/plugs are not rated for the current draw the Pi demands.

See my anecdote here:

viewtopic.php?f=63&t=194997

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Imperf3kt
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Re: Where can I solder my power supply cable to Pi3 platine?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:10 pm

Micro usb is capped at 2.4A, I know. I am pretty sure the Pi foundation also knows this and didn't just stick bits on a board and hope they'd work.

Also the 'current the Pi demands' is between 350mA and 750mA for a Pi3b
The 2.6A is recommended in case you plugged in some kind of USB device or other 5v accessory.
Pi3b - 'normal use' temperature (25% CPU load) 76℃, ambient 21℃

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Where can I solder my power supply cable to Pi3 platine?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:15 am

Heater wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:19 am
But there are times when micro-usb connections are sloppy and unreliable or fail totally.
In other words...there are times when the quality control during manufacturing is poor. Since the RPF/RPT keep a close eye on QA, that doesn't apply to Pis and one can rely on the microUSB power port in this case.

Heater
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Re: Where can I solder my power supply cable to Pi3 platine?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:25 am

W. H. Heydt,

Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting there is anything wrong with Pi quality. In my experience it's very good. No complaints there.

But the reality is that there are times when micro-usb connections are sloppy and unreliable or fail totally. Not just Pi ones.

Something more robust than micro-usb is required for industrial use. Of course the Pi is not not spec'ed for industrial use. That is not it's purpose in life. So I only have myself to blame if I use it in such arduous situations and it fails. Which it did and I do.

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Re: Where can I solder my power supply cable to Pi3 platine?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:45 am

Heater wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:25 am
W. H. Heydt,

Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting there is anything wrong with Pi quality. In my experience it's very good. No complaints there.

But the reality is that there are times when micro-usb connections are sloppy and unreliable or fail totally. Not just Pi ones.

Something more robust than micro-usb is required for industrial use. Of course the Pi is not not spec'ed for industrial use. That is not it's purpose in life. So I only have myself to blame if I use it in such arduous situations and it fails. Which it did and I do.
I think I would phrased it "Just not the Pi ones." It's a subtle difference. Who knows... You may be in luck. In one interview Eben commented that he might go to USB-C for the power connector in the future. I *think* he was concerned about the current limit of the microUSB-B connector, so I'm a bit dubious about the need (if I'm correct and the next Pi uses a 28nm SoC, the power requirements should go down, not up), but there are almost sure to be considerations of which I'm unaware. IF the Pi does start using USB-C, I hope someone comes out with a really inexpensive microUSB to USB-C converter, because I have a *lot* of microUSB PSUs for Pis.

Heater
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Re: Where can I solder my power supply cable to Pi3 platine?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:36 am

W. H. Heydt,
I think I would phrased it "Just not the Pi ones." It's a subtle difference.
It's far from a subtle difference. It totally changes the meaning of what I wrote. From:

Micro-usb connections are unreliable.

To

Micro-usb connections, except those on the Pi, are unreliable.

It changes a true statement into a false one.

Of course we can debate the meaning of "unreliable" there. But as I'm talking about the use and abuse in industrial environments I think my meaning is clear.

USB-C, great. Yet another mess of cables and adapters required. Please God can they just find some space on the board for some decent sized pads to solder 5v and Gnd wires to. Preferably with holes for header pins.

obachi
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Re: Where can I solder my power supply cable to Pi3 platine?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:17 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:45 am
obachi wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:24 pm
I want to avoid to use the micro usb plug.
You've gotten answers. I'm curious as to why you don't want to use the normal microUSB power connector. It is, after all, what it's there for...
I intend to integrate the pi into the housing of a power-bank and as there is almost no space for it, I cannot use the micro usb plug. So its just a matter of space in my case.

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mooblie
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Re: Where can I solder my power supply cable to Pi3 platine?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:01 pm

Heater wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:36 am
.....Please God can they just find some space on the board for some decent sized pads to solder 5v and Gnd wires to. Preferably with holes for header pins.
Here, here! Maybe a simple pair of 0.1" pin headers? On the upstream side of Q3, connected to existing PP1 and PP6. To save cost, it need not be populated as standard, just available for the hardware fans. Just like the existing "RUN" pads? Simple to do, and very low cost?

Image

Is there a place here to make a formal feature request for the (whisper it) Pi 4?

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piglet
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Re: Where can I solder my power supply cable to Pi3 platine?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:16 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:45 am
IF the Pi does start using USB-C, I hope someone comes out with a really inexpensive microUSB to USB-C converter, because I have a *lot* of microUSB PSUs for Pis.
How about 5 for 84p with free delivery?

My daughter's phone has USB3 and her cable broke. It cost me a padded envelope and 90p to send her one converter I had in the mail...to replace I sent off for a pack of 5 for 84p including delivery.

I don't think it could get any cheaper.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Where can I solder my power supply cable to Pi3 platine?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:09 pm

Heater wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:36 am
W. H. Heydt,
I think I would phrased it "Just not the Pi ones." It's a subtle difference.
It's far from a subtle difference. It totally changes the meaning of what I wrote. From:

Micro-usb connections are unreliable.

To

Micro-usb connections, except those on the Pi, are unreliable.
Exactly.
It changes a true statement into a false one.
That's a matter of opinion....unless you've got some documentation back up your assertion. For now--at least--the anecdotal evidence (and I'll admit that the plural of "anecdote" is NOT "data") is that the power connector on the Pi *is* reliable.
USB-C, great. Yet another mess of cables and adapters required. Please God can they just find some space on the board for some decent sized pads to solder 5v and Gnd wires to. Preferably with holes for header pins.
"Standards are a wonderful thing. There are so many to choose from." I usually use that line when someone suggests a barrel connector (which barrel connector?), but it is generally applicable. The micro B connector certainly made a lot of sense when it was picked. If the Pi were just now about to come to market, USB-C might be a reasonable choice. I'll grant that the ability to plug it in either way will help a lot of people...and would even be quicker to connect because of that, but I don't think that power requirements are going to necessarily drive its adoption.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Where can I solder my power supply cable to Pi3 platine?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:10 pm

obachi wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:17 am
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:45 am
obachi wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:24 pm
I want to avoid to use the micro usb plug.
You've gotten answers. I'm curious as to why you don't want to use the normal microUSB power connector. It is, after all, what it's there for...
I intend to integrate the pi into the housing of a power-bank and as there is almost no space for it, I cannot use the micro usb plug. So its just a matter of space in my case.
Fair enough. It had crossed my mind that your reason was along that line.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Where can I solder my power supply cable to Pi3 platine?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:16 pm

piglet wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:16 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:45 am
IF the Pi does start using USB-C, I hope someone comes out with a really inexpensive microUSB to USB-C converter, because I have a *lot* of microUSB PSUs for Pis.
How about 5 for 84p with free delivery?

My daughter's phone has USB3 and her cable broke. It cost me a padded envelope and 90p to send her one converter I had in the mail...to replace I sent off for a pack of 5 for 84p including delivery.

I don't think it could get any cheaper.
Cool. I will keep that in mind, especially since my daughter and son-in-law have phones that use USB-C for charging. If a future Pi comes with USB-C I'd probably see what the price for 100 of them was (I'd most likely give some of them away to help others). I suspect (I didn't check) that in quantity 100, they'll be even cheaper. By the time one got to quantity 1000, they might be half the price of the quantity 5 price. Might make a nice little give away item for large Jam or other Pi related gathering.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Where can I solder my power supply cable to Pi3 platine?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:25 pm

mooblie wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:01 pm
Is there a place here to make a formal feature request for the (whisper it) Pi 4?
Well...there isn't. And besides, my best reading of the tea leaves suggests that it is probably too late to add new features for the Pi4. So unless some bright lass at the RPT has already gotten that as a feature, it'd have to be no earlier than the Pi5.

(During at least one of the interviews associated with the launch of the Pi3B, Dr. Upton remarked that no one should expect the next Pi for "2 to 3 years". I take that to mean that, if we are lucky, there might be a Pi4B next March--2018--and if not, don't expect it before March 2019. On the other hand, I'm *still* eagerly waiting for the Pi3A, though I have a pretty good idea of why it hasn't shown up yet. I really, really hope the RPT doesn't skip the Pi3A--as was done with the Pi2A--and promise us a Pi4A. Mind you, I think a Pi4A would probably be a really good board--better than the Pi3A--but the A+ is getting *really* long in the tooth and waiting at least another 2 years for an updated version would be rather frustrating. Besides...at my age, I might not live long enough to see it.)

Heater
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Re: Where can I solder my power supply cable to Pi3 platine?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:27 pm

That's a matter of opinion....
No. It is not.

Your assertion is micro-usb on the Pi is unconditionally, 100% reliable . Which is clearly impossible.

It's ignoring the fact that I have been talking about use in hostile industrial environments which makes it even less reliable.
...unless you've got some documentation back up your assertion. For now--at least--the anecdotal evidence (and I'll
admit that the plural of "anecdote" is NOT "data") is that the power connector on the Pi *is* reliable.
Sorry no documentation. I guess I could get the invoice for the few hundred dollars we paid for our field service guy to fix a Pi up a 10 meter pole at remote location and get his report regarding the failure mode. Wonky micro-usb connector.

Anyway, my anecdote then is that it failed. That is a 50% failure rate in our field units. We only have two :)
"Standards are a wonderful thing. There are so many to choose from." I usually use that line when someone suggests a barrel connector (which barrel connector?), but it is generally applicable. The micro B connector certainly made a lot of sense when it was picked.
That makes no sense. Barrel connectors were a standard, in all their varieties, long before USB was dreamed of.

As I said above, I have no issue with the micro-usb on the Pi. The Pi is not intended as an industrial device. Micro-usb makes a great choice in that consumer role.

It is perhaps a shame there is not even pads available to add something more rugged when called for.

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