davesedar
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Micro Pi

Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:57 pm

Apologies I cannot find the 'Suggestions' topic, so writing it here.

What I need, and I hope others would benefit, is a really cut-down version of the Raspberry Pi, to use as a headless, code compatible 'Application Processor':
No HDMI,
No RCA Video,
No Sound,
No GPIO,
No Ethernet,
One USB for connection to the 'motherboard'.
Micro-SD card slot.
No larger than 15x25mm (to be installed inside the ATrack AX5 GPS/GSM/OBD-II tracker).
If successful, it could sell in 10,000s into the Young Drivers Insurance market.
Is something similar on the Foundations plans?

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malakai
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Re: Micro Pi

Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:04 pm

Doubtful would need some specs on the actual chipsets rather than what you want removed. I would try Kickstarter as a charity aimed at educational material where the Pi is actually a by-product it would have to fit that role.
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PS1981
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Re: Micro Pi

Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:05 pm

Get a microcontroller instead of a pi.

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Jim JKla
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Re: Micro Pi

Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:18 pm

And what would the Young Drivers Insurance market be using the ATrack AX5 GPS/GSM/OBD-II for?
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mikerr
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Re: Micro Pi

Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:25 pm

I guess its for one of those cheaper insurance deals, where younger drivers get cheaper insurance if you have a gps/speed tracker which proves you're a "safe" driver
i.e. under the speed limit all the time.

Why list all the good stuff to removed from the Pi - use a microcontroller like arduino instead ?

The foundation 's aims are education based - just producing cheap units for embedded use isn't their goal - even if the Pi is often suited for it.
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davesedar
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Re: Micro Pi

Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:34 pm

Thanks for your suggestions.
The use case for my application in the Young Drivers Insurance market is to monitor and report on the class of roads driven, distance and time of day to determine the Risk and hence the Premium.
The Perl code determines Road driven by comparing stream of GPS locations from the ATrack AX5 to OpenStreetMap data held on the SD card.

Cloudcentric
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Re: Micro Pi

Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:43 pm

likely you could find embedded boards out there which can be used for this functionality.............
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PS1981
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Re: Micro Pi

Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:44 pm

Well I really think you should be looking into microcontrollers or FPGA's. I think there should be a solution to your requirements there somewhere, and very compact with low power requirements.
See for example: http://www.microchip.com/

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Mortimer
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Re: Micro Pi

Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:01 pm

Don't the various insurance companies use their own devices? Surely they would only accept the data from a tamper proof device, that they have sealed themselves.
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Jim JKla
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Re: Micro Pi

Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:05 pm

The low power requirements are laudable but with petrol driven alternator in the front and a a Car battery as a voltage stabaliser I don't think it's going to be a big issue. But the RPi could double as a sound system. ;)

There are statistical ways to verify data that are quite hard to beat.. Benfords Law in particular
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davesedar
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Re: Micro Pi

Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:20 pm

Tamper resistance would be a combination of sealing the unit - it simply plugs into the vehicles OBD-II socket below the steering wheel, and software.
All GPS tracking devices can be defeated - the trick is to make the driver appreciate the functionality supplied.
Power is indeed plentiful in a car, so low-power is not a significant requirement (the plan is for the AX5 to only supply power to the Micro-Pi whilst the engine is running).

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Jim JKla
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Re: Micro Pi

Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:40 pm

A car that is not runing can't be being driven over the speed limit.

If your considering building a unit for sale thats going to be acceptable to the insurance market then the tamper proofing will be required, but again thats no big deal if you are looking to seek aproval from the insurers.

What would be a good idea would be a speed check unit something that took information from your GPS and used that with information from yor car as to it's speed. That then gave some sort of feedback warning to the driver.

But as the GPS can work out it's own velocity thats hardly special.

What it would provide is a unit that could stay with the car that was not a desirible object for theft that could be hidden in the dash with some sort of discrete led dash display.
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davesedar
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Re: Micro Pi

Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:51 am

Thanks for your helpful ideas.
I have no plan to monitor speeding offences, the unit is designed to have absolutely no user interface, in order to avoid distracting the driver, and hence allowing easier 'e-marking'.
I know that this request is outside the Educational Purposes of the RasPi, but was rather hoping that someone from the Foundation might assess its viability.

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Jim JKla
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Re: Micro Pi

Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:59 am

Highly unlikly the Foundation has enogh on it's plate as it is. ;)

The most your going to get is feedback from other forum members and mods.
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rurwin
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Re: Micro Pi

Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:28 am

Most of the stuff you want removed is removed in the Model A. The rest of it comes under the heading of free: apart from some very cheap components and the connectors, the video and USB port etc are provided by the SoC.

The SD card is not micro for reasons of reliability, which you may also be interested in. (But maybe not; in your case it may be just a single insertion.)

10,000 units is not enough to interest Broadcom, by at least a factor of ten, and your application has nothing to do with education, so the Foundation is unlikely to be interested.

Have you considered the Atmel ARM processors? They have everything the RaspPi has and more, including CAN, and they come with Linux and Android.

davesedar
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Re: Micro Pi

Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:16 pm

Thanks Moderator,
Yes I am aware of the model A capabilities, but the critical factor is size (max 15x25mm) in order to fit inside the ATrack AX5.
I was hoping that other RasPi users might want something similar, perhaps in the robotics area.

My application is currently running in the car on a model B, connected via USB, as a proof of concept.

Thanks for the heads-up on micro-SD card reliability - yes it will be a single insertion, before the unit is sealed.
The true numbers may well be in the 100,000s (there are 3.4m UK drivers under 25), so perhaps I will approach Broadcom directly.

syndicate
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Re: Micro Pi

Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:04 pm

Wasn't there a concept of a thumb drive sized raspberry pi? If I obtained the schematics of the pi, I bet i could make a mini version like what you are talking about. If schematics are not available, perhaps it can be reverse engineered maybe. Also I happen to have a development kit for OBD that reads things like RPM, speed, etc. and has a header for plugging in a blue tooth mate from sparkfun.

Image
Last edited by syndicate on Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Jim JKla
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Re: Micro Pi

Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:06 pm

I think you will find that this thumbnail version was one of the prototypes used during proof of concept.
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syndicate
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Re: Micro Pi

Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:34 pm

After looking at the schematics here:
http://www.raspberrypi.org/wp-content/u ... s-R1.0.pdf
It is now a quest of mine to publish the board layout of a miniature version :P Though I can't find a foot print on the BCM2835 :( I'll try to find out which package its in or create it from scratch.

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Mortimer
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Re: Micro Pi

Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:26 am

syndicate wrote:After looking at the schematics here:
http://www.raspberrypi.org/wp-content/u ... s-R1.0.pdf
It is now a quest of mine to publish the board layout of a miniature version :P Though I can't find a foot print on the BCM2835 :( I'll try to find out which package its in or create it from scratch.
Where are you going to get your Broadcom chips from?
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mikerr
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Re: Micro Pi

Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:00 pm

Mortimer wrote:Where are you going to get your Broadcom chips from?
pull em off model A's :)

But seriously allwinner ARM chips are more easily available in lower quantities, and broadly the same performance.
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rurwin
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Re: Micro Pi

Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:06 pm

And Atmel ARM chips come with CAN interfaces built-in.

davesedar
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Re: Micro Pi

Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:54 pm

Thank you for suggestions of other chips,
but one of the main requirements is code compatibility.
Having written and proven the software on a RasPi, I would wish Raspbian and my code to run (ideally) unchanged on a Micro-Pi.
Too much to hope for?

PS1981
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Re: Micro Pi

Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:21 pm

When we prototype designs in the industry it is often a case of the prototype being used to prove the plausibility of an idea or concept and is quite different when compared to the marketed endproduct. If you are intending on really making tens of thousands of these, you would not normally produce these amounts using a component that cost you say 20 pounds, when you could get a chip for say 6 pounds (you could be wasting millions!). It would be wothwhile putting the effort into adapting the code.
Rurwin wrote:
Have you considered the Atmel ARM processors? They have everything the RaspPi has and more, including CAN, and they come with Linux and Android.
Which to me implies that you would probably not exactly have to reinvent the wheel.

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rurwin
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Re: Micro Pi

Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:24 pm

That's why we're suggesting ARM chips.

Some of the peripherals will change, but if you're writing to the Linux interfaces, there should be few differences, which are easily modularised.

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