Dear Mods: please make room for PiBang

[Super-Nathan]

There are several smaller operating systems that have been given room on this board and I feel that it is time that PiBang Linux be given the same treatment.

I formally request that PiBang Linux be given a section in the "distros" sections.

[malakai]

I am all for more but why not use the Pi Bang forum? http://pibanglinux.org/forums/ wouldn't you want to get support from those that are creating it, supporting it, and would benefit more from your thoughts than a third party?

From their forums page:



PiBang Linux Forum

Members: 86 • Posts: 394 • Topics: 111

[Cloudcentric]

I am in agreement that PiBang should be represented as should Slackware, OpenElex, Raspbmc and Bodhi, they would get more exposure.

[sej7278]

what's the point of pibang though - you can install openbox, iceweasel, netsurf, chromium and vlc (even xbmc) on raspbian....

[Super-Nathan]

A) it's all about exposure. Sure their forums are awesome, but it would help to have exposure.

B) What's the point? sure you CAN install all of the things you mentioned in Raspbian. But out of the box PiBang has it installed. Pibang ships with the 3.6.11 Kernel, so you you would have to upgrade your Kernel and firmware in Raspbian. Plus PiBang has it's own repos for software not found in Raspbian like spacefm, fish, and (soon) deadbeef.

[Cloudcentric]

B) What's the point? sure you CAN install all of the things you mentioned in Raspbian. But out of the box PiBang has it installed. Pibang ships with the 3.6.11 Kernel, so you you would have to upgrade your Kernel and firmware in Raspbian. Plus PiBang has it's own repos for software not found in Raspbian like spacefm, fish, and (soon) deadbeef.

The latest Raspbian 2013-02-09-wheezy-raspbian is now at 3.6 kernel

[sej7278]

B) What's the point? sure you CAN install all of the things you mentioned in Raspbian. But out of the box PiBang has it installed. Pibang ships with the 3.6.11 Kernel, so you you would have to upgrade your Kernel and firmware in Raspbian. Plus PiBang has it's own repos for software not found in Raspbian like spacefm, fish, and (soon) deadbeef.

The latest Raspbian 2013-02-09-wheezy-raspbian is now at 3.6 kernel

that's handy, i was just about to write another sdcard. is there a way we can get updated when there's a new raspbian relese - without pressing refresh on the download page constantly

[malakai]

I think why not put them on Unofficial Images on the Downloads page with a description and where to get support for them. That will remove confusion on people coming here flooding the forums for help when that is best served by the creators of the images. I think the only reason they have some of the other OS's is because they are very dated and the community got involved and created some of these. I haven't tried Pibang but I know it's there and would like to get to it at some point. But don't the mods here (who aren't paid hint hint donate to the foundation cheap plug) probably have their hands full just keeping up with what is here. I do feel for them I have modded for forums it is a time consuming pain especially when centered around school age kids. Anyone can ask to become a moderator I think first be devoted to the site contribute constantly contact them with your skills and prove that you are worthy and devoted.

I do want to thank the creators of all these images your hard work is awesome. I will gladly let you post your stuff on my site again however I would like to know your devotion and not some hey let me start up a mess of stuff for you to finish when I bail. Sorry if I seem crass or am coming off negative the OP has a valid request and I know they are probably discussing it and will sooner or later get to an answer but again the mods here are probably so swamped if you saw half of what they went through you'd thank them personally in every post and signature you have.

If you are affiliated with PIBang please send me a PM with whatever you want to say about it and I will feature it. (Not that I have the greatest site but you do deserve to be seen and heard.)

[Spid]

I regurlarly check the main page http://downloads.raspberrypi.org/images

I was undertaking an update & dist-upgrade on my September install but is still on Kernel 3.2, so thought what the heck start again...

http://debianarmpi.blogspot.co.uk

[sej7278]

I regurlarly check the main page http://downloads.raspberrypi.org/images

I was undertaking an update & dist-upgrade on my September install but is still on Kernel 3.2, so thought what the heck start again...

you need to use rpi-update to get 3.6 kernel i believe.

[Cloudcentric]

I regurlarly check the main page http://downloads.raspberrypi.org/images

I was undertaking an update & dist-upgrade on my September install but is still on Kernel 3.2, so thought what the heck start again...

you need to use rpi-update to get 3.6 kernel i believe.

I would rather not use 3rd party tools

[ShiftPlusOne]

I regurlarly check the main page http://downloads.raspberrypi.org/images

I was undertaking an update & dist-upgrade on my September install but is still on Kernel 3.2, so thought what the heck start again...

you need to use rpi-update to get 3.6 kernel i believe.

I would rather not use 3rd party tools

Better not use any of the distros then.
(rpi-update is great and should probably be included with all the pi linux distros)

While I am a mod, I don't decide what sub-forums are created, so this is just my personal opinion. I have not tried pibang, but I get the impression that it's slightly customised Raspbian. Correct me if I am wrong there. It doesn't seem to be different enough to classify as a different/noteworthy distro. I have checked the "PIBANG VS. RASPBIAN, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?" page and it would take a minute to get from raspbian to pibang. If a board was made for every single fork of every single fork of a distro, no matter how slight the change, you would have quite a large number of boards with a few topics in each, which may throw newcomers off.

Yes, I know raspbian is a debian fork, but the difference between the two is a lot of re-compiling, hosting costs, lots of work and performance improvements. You wouldn't be able to get from one to the other in a few minutes.

Another disclaimer - I like the idea of PiBang and appreciate the effort behind it. It's close to my own desktop and I would prefer it over Raspbian if I wasn't an ArchLinux user. I do hope it grows and gets more prominent, but at this stage, it doesn't look like it's anything special (yet).

Again, that's my personal view on the matter and has nothing to do with the foundation's stance (whatever that might be). I want to make that clear so that my words don't get twisted or projected onto the foundation.

[Super-Nathan]

As the creator of PiBang, I appreciate your honest, candid, and succinct response.

Tomorrow I will update the "vs" page, as I have been lax on doing so. You are not incorrect saying that it is a customized Raspbian, however it is something special for the following reasons:

1) Newer Kernel
2) Additional repos with additional compiled software as well as software ported from CrunchBang and Aptosid

So yeah, you could change your Raspbian into a PiBang, but it would be hours, not minutes. However, I have now spoken my peace, so I'll shut up.

[Cloudcentric]

As the creator of PiBang, I appreciate your honest, candid, and succinct response.

Tomorrow I will update the "vs" page, as I have been lax on doing so. You are not incorrect saying that it is a customized Raspbian, however it is something special for the following reasons:

1) Newer Kernel
2) Additional repos with additional compiled software as well as software ported from CrunchBang and Aptosid

So yeah, you could change your Raspbian into a PiBang, but it would be hours, not minutes. However, I have now spoken my peace, so I'll shut up.

SN there was a similar post regards Bodhi some months ago and they believe it should be bunched with Raspbain as should Rasbmc.

I stand by what I stated that all operating systems should have their own forum, and maybe take some other forums out, there is too much how do I run this on the Pi, and as I keep saying and getting lambasted for me is pointing out the Pi is hardware not software.

If you use say PiBang it goes in the PiBang Forum it would make life simpler

[jamesh]

As the creator of PiBang, I appreciate your honest, candid, and succinct response.

Tomorrow I will update the "vs" page, as I have been lax on doing so. You are not incorrect saying that it is a customized Raspbian, however it is something special for the following reasons:

1) Newer Kernel
2) Additional repos with additional compiled software as well as software ported from CrunchBang and Aptosid

So yeah, you could change your Raspbian into a PiBang, but it would be hours, not minutes. However, I have now spoken my peace, so I'll shut up.

SN there was a similar post regards Bodhi some months ago and they believe it should be bunched with Raspbain as should Rasbmc.

I stand by what I stated that all operating systems should have their own forum, and maybe take some other forums out, there is too much how do I run this on the Pi, and as I keep saying and getting lambasted for me is pointing out the Pi is hardware not software.

If you use say PiBang it goes in the PiBang Forum it would make life simpler

You actually stated the reason WHY each distro DOESNT get its own forum - there are too many already. Since most distro's are just forks of the ones already there, and there is a general questions forum, all bases are pretty much covered with what we have.

[Cloudcentric]

No I have not answered, I am saying that having forums for each operating system would hopefully encourage users to post in the forum that is relevant to the Operating System they are using, having it the way it is has too many, as I said before, how do I run it on the Pi THE Pi IS HARDWARE

[jamesh]

No I have not answered, I am saying that having forums for each operating system would hopefully encourage users to post in the forum that is relevant to the Operating System they are using, having it the way it is has too many, as I said before, how do I run it on the Pi THE Pi IS HARDWARE

No need to shout. I've got a Raspi, I know what it is. I've even got a prototype (offers on a postcard)

Most linux distros are effectively the same; most apps require exactly the same instructions to get working on whatever distribution is in use. Having many multiple forums (and I already think there are too many) means information that is relevant (i.e. most of it) to all is lost in a distro specific place. If we have a forum for every Pi distro, there would be dozens with only a few posts in each one.

The only reason for distro specific posts is where you have problems installing that particular distro or simply getting it up and running. That should be handled by the person rolling the distro esp. if that distro does't have a link to download from here. Or make the particular distro clear in a forum post title in the general Linux questions area.

[Super-Nathan]

No I have not answered, I am saying that having forums for each operating system would hopefully encourage users to post in the forum that is relevant to the Operating System they are using, having it the way it is has too many, as I said before, how do I run it on the Pi THE Pi IS HARDWARE

No need to shout. I've got a Raspi, I know what it is. I've even got a prototype (offers on a postcard)

Most linux distros are effectively the same; most apps require exactly the same instructions to get working on whatever distribution is in use. Having many multiple forums (and I already think there are too many) means information that is relevant (i.e. most of it) to all is lost in a distro specific place. If we have a forum for every Pi distro, there would be dozens with only a few posts in each one.

The only reason for distro specific posts is where you have problems installing that particular distro or simply getting it up and running. That should be handled by the person rolling the distro esp. if that distro does't have a link to download from here. Or make the particular distro clear in a forum post title in the general Linux questions area.

There already are a bunch of forums with only a few postings in each.

I think everyone makes great points. Distro specific forums on their respective websites ARE the best place to make postings. I would much much prefer PiBang users to post in the PiBang forums. The problem I have is that, by hosting a select few distro-specific forums, the Rasberry Pi Foundation, that as I understand it hosts these forums, gives a de facto endorsements of various distros. While that is appropriate for Raspbian, their "official" distro, it is not appropriate or fair to host forums or downloads, an ipso facto endorsement, of various other distros selectively without a standardized benchmark or threshhold to get a spot on this forum.

I am not saying that PiBang is more relevant than any other distro. I will, in fact, straight up tell you that it is not for everyone and if you don't like config files, or are not at least interested in beginning to edit them , it is not the distro for you. What I am saying is that it deserves the same level of endorsement as FreeBSD, NetBSD, or OpenSUSE. These other distros get a spot on this forum which effectively helps validate them and finds them users even though they also host their own forums that are probably better for users. Two of those are BSD's that are "forks of forks".

PiBang has, so far, had over 100,000 downloads. At what point does it get advertised and endorsed by having a forum here?

[Cloudcentric]

SN I quite agree and am fed up with the present system where I have to keep asking what Operating System......................................

I have changed to using prosilver board layout because with raspite one can find anything anywhere unrelated.

[ShiftPlusOne]

I think jamesh gave a pretty well reasoned and clear response.

It's not about endorsement or popularity, it's about support for the user. Look at the distros which currently have their own subforum. The distros there are all very different to each other from the user's standpoint. If someone needs help with riscos, then a freebsd user is probably not the person to ask. And that applies to each of the distros on the list in reference to each of the other. When it comes to Raspbian derivatives, that's not the case. If you can find a set of questions relating to pibang the answers to which are not the same as they would be for raspbian, and if you can show that these questions pop up often then there might be a case to be made against that point.

it is not appropriate or fair to host forums or downloads, an ipso facto endorsement, of various other distros selectively without a standardized benchmark or threshhold to get a spot on this forum

Why? What entitles us to a standardised benchmark?

[jamesh]

SN I quite agree and am fed up with the present system where I have to keep asking what Operating System......................................

I have changed to using prosilver board layout because with raspite one can find anything anywhere unrelated.

Why do you need to ask which OS? In most cases, questions that arise here are Linux generic..

And I would hesitate to say that a forum here means the distribution is de facto 'endorsed'. If you have a download on the download page, then perhaps that is more of an endorsement (but we only have ONE recommended distro of course..)

[duberry]

It's not about endorsement or popularity, it's about support for the user. Look at the distros which currently have their own subforum. The distros there are all very different to each other from the user's standpoint. If someone needs help with riscos, then a freebsd user is probably not the person to ask. And that applies to each of the distros on the list in reference to each of the other. When it comes to Raspbian derivatives, that's not the case. If you can find a set of questions relating to pibang the answers to which are not the same as they would be for raspbian, and if you can show that these questions pop up often then there might be a case to be made against that point.

it seems like "Raspbian derivatives" should at least
get sub-forums under the raspbian one

so it is more obvious to new users
that things relating to raspbian are also applicable to its derivatives!

[Cloudcentric]

"Why do you need to ask which OS? In most cases, questions that arise here are Linux generic.."

Cobblers, debian apt-get, arch pacman etc and some software is not in all repositories. Take for example VNC there is more choice in Raspbian than in alarmpi !

[ukscone]

My personal opinion, (not made as a mod) is that i'd be loathed to add any more operating system subforums unless there was a earth-shattering reason to do so, MeteorOS anyone?

All of the current OS subforums are for Operating Systems that are either non-Linux or are for Linux distros that are either sufficiently different to each other that a question in another subforum is not likely to provide a solution & are often used as the basis for a new distro. There are probably a couple of exceptions to the rule (puppy i'm looking at you) but on the whole i'm quite happy with the current subforums & it's hard enough to keep up with them as it is.

(with my mod hat on -- please noooooooooooooo for the sake of what little sanity I have left not another subforum it's bad enough as it is )

[Cloudcentric]

My argument is we do not need all the current sections, many could be ditched if an emphasise was placed on Operating Systems, as I will say again we would know what operating system the OP is using.

I am fed up with people asking if Java, Sound, vnc , blah blah could be run on the RPi or how do you update.

THE RASPBERRY Pi IS THE HARDWARE !