JonD
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 7:18 pm

RISCOS 5.21 not booting when installed from NOOBS 1.3.8

Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:43 pm

Hi All,
I've been happily running older (5.19) versions of RISCOS from RAW images and decided to give the latest NOOBS (1.3.8) a go.
This obviously has the new 5.21 version of RISCOS. All the other OSs I tried (Raspbian, Arch, OpenELEC) boot just fine, but RISCOS gets stuck with the OK/disc access light on just after the "No keyboard detected, autobooting"

There is network activity, so I don't think there is an issue with the connectivity, and in fact I can flash the same version as a RAW image and it works just fine. It doesn't even pause at that point.

Also, if I power it off and restart it I get to the same point but this time it tells me the free space map is bad. Once that's happened it doesn't hang, but it won't mount the SDFS::$ filesystem either, even after running CheckMap.

I've used the SDFormatter program, and the only non-standard thing I've done is reduce the size of the root partitions of OpenElec, Arch and Raspbian (NOT RISCOS or recovery as I know these are sensitive to locations) so I can fit on the 8Gb card I'm using.
I can see the SDFS::$ partition using * commands at the CLI, it just won't appear under SDCARD on the Desktop.

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks
Jonathan

Edit: corrected the SDcard size

User avatar
AndrewS
Posts: 3625
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:50 pm
Location: Cambridge, UK
Contact: Website

Re: RISCOS hangs under NOOBS

Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:18 pm

If you try again, does it work any differently if you use a different keyboard?
Does it work any differently if you boot with no keyboard connected?

....
Hmm, just double-checked this myself using NOOBS 1.3.8 and installed RISC OS twice - once with just a USB keyboard connected, and once with just a USB mouse connected. Both times RISC OS booted up perfectly fine after installation!
(so the keyboard thing is probably just a red herring)

Have you got a different SD card you could try using? Maybe it's some kind of odd SD incompatibility? :?

JonD
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 7:18 pm

Re: RISCOS hangs under NOOBS

Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:33 pm

Hi,
admittedly this is the first time I've tried this particular card, though the other OSs work fine.
In fact it turned out that if I left it long enough eventually it would come up with "bad free space map" by itself.

I'll try another card and see if that works.

Best regards
Jonathan

JonD
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 7:18 pm

Re: RISCOS hangs under NOOBS

Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:20 pm

Just a quick follow-up, I found that when I used a proper Sandisk 8G card I could tinker with partition sizes to my heart's content and NOOBS would still happily load and run RISCOS. But my generic 8GB card won't play ball at all under NOOBS.

Oddly the card in question passes the H2testw fitness test with no issues at all, so it's not defective. The read and write speed are only 2Mb/s instead of the 4 I would expect given it's a Class 4 device, and it will run RISCOS natively without issue.
I even tried copying the image from the Sandisk card to the generic one but no dice.
In case anyone else has one of these, the "brand" is Elite Pro, sort of a not-very-lookalike to Kingston's Elite Pro.

Jon

User avatar
mahjongg
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 12665
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:19 am
Location: South Holland, The Netherlands

Re: RISCOS 5.21 not booting when installed from NOOBS 1.3.8

Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:09 pm

[moderated] updated subject line.

User avatar
AndrewS
Posts: 3625
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:50 pm
Location: Cambridge, UK
Contact: Website

Re: RISCOS 5.21 not booting when installed from NOOBS 1.3.8

Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:34 pm

Could you "moderate" it into the RISCOS forum too please? ;)
Suspect there may be people there better placed to diagnose this.

User avatar
mahjongg
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 12665
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:19 am
Location: South Holland, The Netherlands

Re: RISCOS 5.21 not booting when installed from NOOBS 1.3.8

Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:08 pm

done!

mimi123
Posts: 583
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:32 pm

Re: RISCOS 5.21 not booting when installed from NOOBS 1.3.8

Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:29 pm

Had you a broken sd card slot?
If yes, avoid Risc OS like the plague.

JonD
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 7:18 pm

Re: RISCOS 5.21 not booting when installed from NOOBS 1.3.8

Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:36 am

Hi mimi,
not broken, but perhaps not quite right. It passes the utility that is supposed to check for fake SD cards, so nothing is actually broken, but even Linux distros on this card seem to freeze for several seconds at some points when writing. The test didn't freeze, but linux does.

Just out of interest, what is the issue with RISCOS and bad SD cards? Does the filesystem not repair itself well?

Best regards
Jon

mimi123
Posts: 583
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:32 pm

Re: RISCOS 5.21 not booting when installed from NOOBS 1.3.8

Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:37 am

JonD wrote:Hi mimi,
not broken, but perhaps not quite right. It passes the utility that is supposed to check for fake SD cards, so nothing is actually broken, but even Linux distros on this card seem to freeze for several seconds at some points when writing. The test didn't freeze, but linux does.

Just out of interest, what is the issue with RISCOS and bad SD cards? Does the filesystem not repair itself well?

Best regards
Jon
It does not detect them at all. Or crashes on reading the MBR.

User avatar
helpful
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:09 pm
Location: London
Contact: Website

Re: RISCOS 5.21 not booting when installed from NOOBS 1.3.8

Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:40 pm

JonD wrote:what is the issue with RISCOS and bad SD cards?
It didn't say bad SD card, but bad SD card *slot*!

RISC OS actually bothers to check the card detect switch, so if that is a bit dodgy then it thinks there is no card present and won't boot. This is because it treats the SD card like a floppy disc and is why you can swap SD cards while the system is in use under RISC OS.

Bryan.

JonD
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 7:18 pm

Re: RISCOS 5.21 not booting when installed from NOOBS 1.3.8

Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:45 pm

Ahh, my mistake. I did check that for some reason. Something must have made me look at that... can't remember though.

mimi123
Posts: 583
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:32 pm

Re: RISCOS 5.21 not booting when installed from NOOBS 1.3.8

Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:55 pm

It's worth noting that RiscOS doesn't work with class 2 sd cards.

User avatar
AndrewS
Posts: 3625
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:50 pm
Location: Cambridge, UK
Contact: Website

Re: RISCOS 5.21 not booting when installed from NOOBS 1.3.8

Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:43 pm

mimi123 wrote:It's worth noting that RiscOS doesn't work with class 2 sd cards.
Oh? Is that a "doesn't work AT ALL with class 2 cards", or a "works so slowly that it's unbearable"?
I always thought that the host OS had no 'knowledge' of the SD class, and (ignoring the UHS modes) the cards operated identically, just taking longer to return data from a read/write call?

(trying to learn as much as I can about the different quirks of SD cards, because of e.g. https://github.com/raspberrypi/noobs/issues/174 and https://github.com/raspberrypi/documentation/pull/88 )

mimi123
Posts: 583
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:32 pm

Re: RISCOS 5.21 not booting when installed from NOOBS 1.3.8

Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:39 pm

AndrewS wrote:
mimi123 wrote:It's worth noting that RiscOS doesn't work with class 2 sd cards.
Oh? Is that a "doesn't work AT ALL with class 2 cards", or a "works so slowly that it's unbearable"?
I always thought that the host OS had no 'knowledge' of the SD class, and (ignoring the UHS modes) the cards operated identically, just taking longer to return data from a read/write call?

(trying to learn as much as I can about the different quirks of SD cards, because of e.g. https://github.com/raspberrypi/noobs/issues/174 and https://github.com/raspberrypi/documentation/pull/88 )
On RISC OS, timeout issues so doesn't work at all.

User avatar
AndrewS
Posts: 3625
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:50 pm
Location: Cambridge, UK
Contact: Website

Re: RISCOS 5.21 not booting when installed from NOOBS 1.3.8

Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:47 pm

Ahh, so if the OS was modified to have bigger IO timeouts, then it would work on class 2 cards?
Not that I want to run RISC OS on class 2 SD cards, just curious ;)

mimi123
Posts: 583
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:32 pm

Re: RISCOS 5.21 not booting when installed from NOOBS 1.3.8

Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:37 pm

AndrewS wrote:Ahh, so if the OS was modified to have bigger IO timeouts, then it would work on class 2 cards?
Not that I want to run RISC OS on class 2 SD cards, just curious ;)
Yes. Exactly that. So RISC OS can be fixed for the OP but RISC OS is propretary with the source code. Just read the Castle license.

User avatar
AndrewS
Posts: 3625
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:50 pm
Location: Cambridge, UK
Contact: Website

Re: RISCOS 5.21 not booting when installed from NOOBS 1.3.8

Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:16 am

Great, thanks for the info :)

Return to “RISCOS”