AMcS
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RISC OS Wakefield 2013 Show

Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:06 pm

Hi All,

Not being able to attend myself (for me it's not quite the "Dark Side of the Moon" - but is pretty proximal to it...), there's a RISC OS show on in Wakefield today (Saturday 20th April) and (I suspect) there will be more than a little RaspberryPi related goodness there:

Details: http://www.wakefieldshow.org.uk/index.php

If anyone sees or hears anything interesting there could you please post details here?

Thanks

pygmy_giant
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Re: RISC OS Wakefield 2013 Show

Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:14 pm

I notice there is an AemulatorPi stall there and this link: http://buyit.spellings.net/products.php?cat=2 indicates the aemulator is free - is that so... can anyone report seeing it working at the show?

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BrokenFrog
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Re: RISC OS Wakefield 2013 Show

Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:54 pm

It seems that Aemulor is free for Cortex A8 and A9 systems (that is, the BeagleBoard and PandaBoard) but is £15+VAT for the Raspberry Pi and is locked to the Pi it is bought for. It requires a unique code to register it prior to purchase. If you've already paid for £hundreds of software, an extra £18 per machine could be considered a bargain to get it to work again! I need to buy at least two copies and will do after pay day. I did notice it isn't properly listed on the Spellings website yet.

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BrokenFrog
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Re: RISC OS Wakefield 2013 Show

Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:55 pm

Oops! Forgot the key bit! It looked very much like it was working!

svrsig
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Re: RISC OS Wakefield 2013 Show

Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:12 pm

Aemulor Pro for the Pi was on sale at Wakefiled and can now be purchased from here http://buyit.spellings.net/ - the demo version is free and will work for a few weeks, the full version is £18 inc VAT. In both cases you need to provide your machine ID and your download will then only work on that machine.

It's great to have Impression Publisher, Publisher Plus, Style, WordWorks and TableMate all working on the Raspberry Pi.

NigelJK
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Re: RISC OS Wakefield 2013 Show

Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:10 am

Dare I ask if Elite is working on the emulator?

hilbertdad
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Re: RISC OS Wakefield 2013 Show

Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:14 pm

I have installed aemulor pro demo and I have two issues:
1) if I copy it in the !boot.Choiches.Boot.PreDesk the ethernet connection is not more working.
---may be if the ethernet driver is loaded after aemulor it is loaded as 26bit and fails
---any suggestion ? By the way if I run it manually after the boot both aemulor and network is working
2) To test it I have run a copy of games/demo (Lander & Pacmania) under Aemulor ; they do not work. Pacmania starts , I can hear the music but the screen is blue !
--any suggestion ?

In addition which 'disk image' SW you suggest to runs old games from disk image ?

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helpful
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Re: RISC OS Wakefield 2013 Show

Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:59 pm

hilbertdad wrote:which 'disk image' SW you suggest to runs old games from disk image ?
ADFFS - http://adffs.filecore.net/

Long thread about it here - http://www.iconbar.com/forums/viewthrea ... adid=11846

And related stuff here - http://www.iconbar.com/forums/viewthrea ... adid=11919

AMcS
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Re: RISC OS Wakefield 2013 Show

Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:21 pm

As a further aside apparently the folks over at NetSurf we're prepping NetStuf 3.0 at the show (and now I believe it's available for download) - has anyone tried it yet ?

MarkTP
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Re: RISC OS Wakefield 2013 Show

Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:38 am

I have a bit but have two issues
1) Like 2.9, 3.0 can't handle this site. The forum pages are a particular mess!
2) 2.9 is part of the Apps ROM image so (as far as I can work out with my limited knowledge - somebody please correct me on this) you can't remove it and have to put 3.0 somewhere else. Seems a bit of waste really.

dr_d_gee
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Re: RISC OS Wakefield 2013 Show

Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:57 pm

There's nothing to stop you doing what the installation instructions suggest and simply replacing the "old" Netsurf with the new one. I needed to update one of the libraries it depends on, too, but YMMV.

As you say it still can't handle the forum list on this site correctly. Not sure why; all the other browers I've tried do (except I haven't tried the Raspbian Netsurf, or Dillo, yet).

MarkTP
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Re: RISC OS Wakefield 2013 Show

Wed May 01, 2013 9:08 am

I downloaded !NetSurf as a zip file from the NetSurf website and followed the installation instructions in the ReadMe file. There was no mention of overwriting the image in the Apps directory but a fairly vague instruction to
"Drag the !NetSurf application directory to a place on your hard disc."
Please allow for the fact that I am a new user, could someone tell me as a series of simple instructions how I can replace the version of 2.9 that appears in my Apps directory. Condescending replies like the above are not helpful.

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helpful
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Re: RISC OS Wakefield 2013 Show

Wed May 01, 2013 11:29 am

The Apps icon on the iconbar is a read only pseudo filesystem (called ResourceFS) made up of links to stuff held elsewhere:

1. Resources and applications (Edit, Draw, Paint) held in the ROM image
2. Applications held in the Apps directory on the SD card
3. Anything added using the configuration tool (see below)

I don't have my Pi to hand so I'm not sure if NetSurf was added through option 2 or 3, but either way you need to replace the real copy on the SD card rather than try to update the link in ResourceFS.

To see what is added using 3, click with the Menu (middle usually!) mouse button on the Task Manager (Raspberry icon bottom right) and choose Configure. Click the Boot icon, then on "Add to Apps". If NetSurf is in here then this will show you where it is actually located.

While you are in the Boot section of Configure, note that there is an Install icon. NetSurf comes with a !Boot application that needs to be dropped into here to merge it with your current boot.

Similarly, going back to the main Configure window there is a System icon. Drop the !System supplied with NetSurf into here to merge that too.

It is ironic that NetSurf is one of the few RISC OS applications that would benefit from package management, but it isn't yet packaged :-(

Bryan.

MarkTP
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Re: RISC OS Wakefield 2013 Show

Thu May 02, 2013 9:11 am

@helpful
Many thanks for the explanation. I'm still a bit puzzled about the Apps folder though. If I click on the Apps icon and try to copy the new version of !NetSurf over the existing 2.9 version, I get told that the folder is read only. However, if I open the Apps directory in the root directory of the SD card, I find that the new version copies with no problem. Could someone explain in words of one or two syllables (my brain is not what it once was - 15 years of the dreaded "Redmond based" operating system have taken their toll) why this happens?

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Burngate
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Re: RISC OS Wakefield 2013 Show

Thu May 02, 2013 10:00 am

As helpful explained, that Apps icon doesn't lead to a real folder. It's just a gathering-place for some resources, a bit like a telephone directory. Real phones aren't in the book, but you can use the book to call real people

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helpful
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Re: RISC OS Wakefield 2013 Show

Thu May 02, 2013 11:21 am

The Apps icon is a bit like the Windows Start button - you install applications in C:\Program Files but links to them appear in the Start - Programs menu.

There is a discussion going on over in the ROOL forums about how the Apps icon behaviour should be changed or removed, partly to avoid this sort of confusion:

https://www.riscosopen.org/forum/forums/2/topics/1848

Join the discussion. Your thoughts as a newcomer could be very useful.

MarkTP
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Re: RISC OS Wakefield 2013 Show

Thu May 02, 2013 8:55 pm

Once again, many thanks for this, one more piece in the jigsaw as they say! I'll take a look at the thread above but I am a bit loathe to put my 10 cents worth over there - I would feel like a dwarf gatecrashing a giants party (they all seem to know so much and I so little!).
Anyway I don't want to sign off on a negative note - RISCOS is turning out to be a breath of fresh air blowing away the frustrations ofwindows8 (am I allowed to say that word here?) and learning BASIC is turning out to be a joy - I didn't realise that computers were such interesting things!

pygmy_giant
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Re: RISC OS Wakefield 2013 Show

Thu May 02, 2013 9:53 pm

I would feel like a dwarf gatecrashing a giants party
Whats wrong with that?

I have found them to be friendlier than your average (intellectual) giants.

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Re: RISC OS Wakefield 2013 Show

Fri May 03, 2013 1:39 am

MarkTP wrote:I would feel like a dwarf gatecrashing a giants party (they all seem to know so much and I so little!)
Don't worry, they don't bite :-)

While a lot of the site is aimed at developers of the OS, the Community Support and Wishlists sections were created for us dwarfs to put in questions and suggestions. They would definitely appreciate the input from someone seeing things through fresh eyes. It's too easy to overlook things that seem "obvious" when you've been using a system for years.

BTW. Posted this with the latest NetSurf test build, rel #1107. While the forums don't look perfect they work fine. Available here: http://ci.netsurf-browser.org/builds/riscos/

svrsig
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Re: RISC OS Wakefield 2013 Show

Fri May 03, 2013 9:16 am

I'm still a bit puzzled about the Apps folder though.
It made sense when it was invented: a lot of the applications were actually stored inside the ROM image (many still are) because the original machines only had a single floppy disc drive. The 'Apps' icon was the [only] way to find and use those Apps.

When hard discs came along things got more complicated. The operating system was still in ROM (and still is) but a lot of configuration information was now on the hard disc, along with a few more applications for which there was insufficient space in the ROM. So they were added to the Apps icon by default and the user could add more.

When you are creating a new document, RISC OS works like other systems: you start the editor, create the document and then save the result. Except that when you save the result, you actually drag what you want to save to an open filer window.

If you are editing an existing document, then you just double-click the file you want to edit (SHIFT-double click if it is something like a BASIC programme that double-click would execute) and the editor loads and displays it. So, for example, a JPEG editor application would not need to be in the Apps folder as you don't normally need to find it very often (only when you have more than one JPEG editor and want the 'other one' to be used).

An application that is purely functional can hide away inside the !Boot directory and just work without adverttising itself to the user. An application that has preferences that the user can adjust will usually show an icon on the icon bar and offer a menu of choices.

Unlike another operating system, an application that is running will only appear once on the icon bar, however many windows (including none) it has open.

pygmy_giant
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Re: RISC OS Wakefield 2013 Show

Fri May 03, 2013 10:01 am

Re Netsurf:

I hate to say this, but I wrote the Pi off as a way to browse the web long ago, regardless of the operating system - I found it slow and inaccurate. To my mind internet connections on the Pi are only useful for downloading/upgrading software. Why would I bother using it to browse when I can just use my laptop which is usably fast and renders accurately?

I was surprised by this lack of performance as the Pi can run Quake III at 60fps and so I don't understand why it should not be comparable in performance to other machines when it comes to the simpler task of rendering web pages.

To tempt me back, any browser on the Pi would have to pass the acid test: http://acid3.acidtests.org/ (firefox on my windows machine scores 100%).

Here is a list of average internet connection speeds by country: http://royal.pingdom.com/2010/11/12/rea ... the-world/. If you want a good connection, move to South Korea, not Iran. In UK it is inbetween at 3.93 Mbit/s. Idealy I guess the browser's rendering should keep up.

Perhaps I am being unfair as I have not used the Pi on the web for a while and only under Raspbian - is Netsurf on RISCOS better?
Last edited by pygmy_giant on Fri May 03, 2013 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Burngate
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Re: RISC OS Wakefield 2013 Show

Fri May 03, 2013 10:32 am

pygmy_giant wrote:... 3.93 kb/s.
M is down and to the left of k

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