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DavidS
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Re: gcc and RISC OS

Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:11 pm

pygmy_giant wrote:If you are referring to OS_Claim - I'll try it from GCC as soon as I get a spare SD card.....

....If you are referrig to the I2C code using OS_memory - it works just fine :)
I was refering to OS_Claim, I Do Not use GCC for anything. I do not knw if you have the DDE or not, though I use Acorn C to compile anything C.
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Re: gcc and RISC OS

Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:09 pm

thanks for the warning - how does one aquire such superior software

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Shawty
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Re: gcc and RISC OS

Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:18 pm

If your referring to Norcroft C / Acorn C , you have to pay for it :-)

http://www.riscosopen.org/content/sales/dde

In my case Iv'e had it for years (Since version 0. something would you believe) snag for me is it don't build fully 32 bit code.

However there are a number of enterprising people out there that have made tools to rectify that :-)

oh and with reference to using GCC.... I'm right on that one too.... GCC is fine for *nix and *nix like systems, but for ROS... nahhh... it's Acorn-C all the way.
still crazy (Even since the days of my BBC Model B) BEST and only way to be ;-)

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if you remember the Acorn and BBC days then I was "!Shawty! of DSPD" (Author of the BBC B Sound Tracker suite, and the Dreamscape demo)

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Re: gcc and RISC OS

Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:52 pm

p-p-p-pay for ssss-sss-s-s-software?! :o :o :o

I'll consider it

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Re: gcc and RISC OS

Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:41 am

I know, shocking isn't it?

But it's only 35 quid for the development tools and a load of other useful stuff, from
https://www.riscosopen.org/content/sales/nutpi
Making Smalltalk on ARM since 1986; making your Scratch better since 2012

Tide
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Re: gcc and RISC OS

Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:21 am

Eh the DDE is part of the NutPi, is it not?

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Shawty
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Re: gcc and RISC OS

Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:01 pm

Yup, it is... and not just a limited version, it's the whole thing... for just £35+vat

The DDE on it's own without any of the other stuff usually sells for £48+vat
still crazy (Even since the days of my BBC Model B) BEST and only way to be ;-)

IM: @shawty_ds on twitter
if you remember the Acorn and BBC days then I was "!Shawty! of DSPD" (Author of the BBC B Sound Tracker suite, and the Dreamscape demo)

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Re: gcc and RISC OS

Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:16 pm

... And used to sell for a couple of hundred iirc. Mind you, I got mine for free in 1987 along with original handmade A500 'silver fox' prototype. Which I still have, minus kid, mouse and any real hope of ever firing up again.
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Re: gcc and RISC OS

Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:30 pm

The A500 was like an archimedes pretending to be a PC by having a boring case - right?

DDE and DataPower are the features of NutPi that are most attractive to me.

I understand that the DDE compiles C code in pretty windows - does it do anything else like compile C++ or assembly language?

The reported advantages of it over GCC are that it generates more reliable / efficient machine code - are there others?

Tide
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Re: gcc and RISC OS

Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:41 pm

pygmy_giant wrote:The A500 was like an archimedes pretending to be a PC by having a boring case - right?
I think you're mixing it up with the A5000, Tim's machine would be quite a rare and interesting beast however:

http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html

AMcS
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Re: gcc and RISC OS

Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:56 pm

Tide wrote:
pygmy_giant wrote:The A500 was like an archimedes pretending to be a PC by having a boring case - right?
I think you're mixing it up with the A5000, Tim's machine would be quite a rare and interesting beast however:

http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html
Yep they are exceedingly rare, it was a pre-A310 Archimedes (in effect) so a rare and valuable beastie indeed.

And yes the A5000 was the one with the boring PC like case - on the other hand it also gave the masses an ARM with an on chip cache (ARM 3). I got to use one a few times and it was *much* quicker than my bog standard A3010 of those dim distant days....

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Shawty
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Re: gcc and RISC OS

Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:04 pm

Ahh yes, the good old A5000, mines sat right beside me now.

It powers up, but only just, I will get around to soldering a new CMOS chip into it at some stage.

:-)

A500, Iv'e heard of but never seen one in the Wild.

My original copy of the DDE was free too, I was working on a project for a company at the time, and as part of my payment they paid for and furnished me with my own personal copy.

As for what does it do.. well

If it's like the version I have, then you'll have

C Compiler
C++ Compiler
Linker
Object Assembler
C-Module Header Generator
Make Utility
Window Editor
Plus all the acorn specific headers and includes with libs in C and ASM source

As it's the newer version, you might well also have all the toolbox tools, such as the editor, tester and resource generators too.

:-)
still crazy (Even since the days of my BBC Model B) BEST and only way to be ;-)

IM: @shawty_ds on twitter
if you remember the Acorn and BBC days then I was "!Shawty! of DSPD" (Author of the BBC B Sound Tracker suite, and the Dreamscape demo)

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Re: gcc and RISC OS

Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:28 pm

What are its advantages over GCC?

I'm quite happy with GCC at the moment - under what conditions might I experience problems using it under ROS?

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Re: gcc and RISC OS

Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:58 pm

pygmy_giant wrote:What are its advantages over GCC?

I'm quite happy with GCC at the moment - under what conditions might I experience problems using it under ROS?
The adantages over GCC are a better faster C/C++ compiler, ABC the BBC BASIC compier, ObjAsm a very good and standard assembler, better linker, DDT, and it has all of the tools thatyou need unlike GCC.

There are many more advantages I do not have hours to type at this time.
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Re: gcc and RISC OS

Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:56 am

Nice - a BBC BASIC compiler is pretty cool!

None of those DDE features are described here https://www.riscosopen.org/content/sales/nutpi and I cannot find any elsewhere.

Does it come with operating instructions / a reference manual?

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Re: gcc and RISC OS

Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:27 am

pygmy_giant wrote:Nice - a BBC BASIC compiler is pretty cool!

None of those DDE features are described here https://www.riscosopen.org/content/sales/nutpi and I cannot find any elsewhere.
They do not have a vey good poduct overview. Maybe this should be corrected, I may end up taking the time to add a couple of pages to the Wiki, maybe.
Does it come with operating instructions / a reference manual?
Yes it comes with documentation (the ROOL version provides the documentation in PDF form, the OLD acorn version comes with printed books).
The documentation provided with the DDE is:

Code: Select all

*ex
Dir. SCSI::BOOT.$.dde.Documents.manuals Option 02 (Run) 
CSD  SCSI::BOOT.$.dde.Documents.manuals
Lib. SCSI:"Unset"
URD  SCSI:"Unset"
ABC_414A/PDF WR/R    PDF       13:07:39 19-Jul-2009  415 kbytes
ASM/PDF      WR/R    PDF       04:29:26 09-Jul-2011 1230 kbytes
C_C++/PDF    WR/R    PDF       04:29:26 09-Jul-2011    6 Mbytes
DDE/PDF      WR/R    PDF       04:29:27 09-Jul-2011    4 Mbytes
INDEX/PDF    WR/R    PDF       04:29:27 09-Jul-2011 3820 kbytes
PRM1/PDF     WR/R    PDF       04:29:28 09-Jul-2011 3719 kbytes
PRM2/PDF     WR/R    PDF       04:29:29 09-Jul-2011 2812 kbytes
PRM3/PDF     WR/R    PDF       04:29:29 09-Jul-2011 3289 kbytes
PRM4/PDF     WR/R    PDF       04:29:30 09-Jul-2011 2531 kbytes
PRM5A/PDF    WR/R    PDF       04:29:30 09-Jul-2011 3216 kbytes
STYLE/PDF    WR/R    PDF       04:29:31 09-Jul-2011 1200 kbytes
TOOLBOX/PDF  WR/R    PDF       04:29:31 09-Jul-2011 3081 kbytes
*
  • -The PRMs arethe standard 5 RISC OS PRMs same as you already have with RISC OS.
    -ABC_414A/PDF describes ABC the BBC BASIC Compiler.
    -ASM/PDF: describes ObjAsm the standard assembler for RISC OS.
    -DDE/PDF: Describes using the desktop interface to all of the tools as well as a god discription of all of the other tools.
    -STYLE/PDF: Is the RISC OS Style guide :-) .
    -TOOLBOX/PDF describes the TOOLBOX module and its use.
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Re: gcc and RISC OS

Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:27 am

pygmy_giant wrote:Nice - a BBC BASIC compiler is pretty cool!

None of those DDE features are described here https://www.riscosopen.org/content/sales/nutpi and I cannot find any elsewhere.
They do not have a vey good poduct overview. Maybe this should be corrected, I may end up taking the time to add a couple of pages to the Wiki, maybe.
Does it come with operating instructions / a reference manual?
Yes it comes with documentation (the ROOL version provides the documentation in PDF form, the OLD acorn version comes with printed books).
The documentation provided with the DDE is:

Code: Select all

*ex
Dir. SCSI::BOOT.$.dde.Documents.manuals Option 02 (Run) 
CSD  SCSI::BOOT.$.dde.Documents.manuals
Lib. SCSI:"Unset"
URD  SCSI:"Unset"
ABC_414A/PDF WR/R    PDF       13:07:39 19-Jul-2009  415 kbytes
ASM/PDF      WR/R    PDF       04:29:26 09-Jul-2011 1230 kbytes
C_C++/PDF    WR/R    PDF       04:29:26 09-Jul-2011    6 Mbytes
DDE/PDF      WR/R    PDF       04:29:27 09-Jul-2011    4 Mbytes
INDEX/PDF    WR/R    PDF       04:29:27 09-Jul-2011 3820 kbytes
PRM1/PDF     WR/R    PDF       04:29:28 09-Jul-2011 3719 kbytes
PRM2/PDF     WR/R    PDF       04:29:29 09-Jul-2011 2812 kbytes
PRM3/PDF     WR/R    PDF       04:29:29 09-Jul-2011 3289 kbytes
PRM4/PDF     WR/R    PDF       04:29:30 09-Jul-2011 2531 kbytes
PRM5A/PDF    WR/R    PDF       04:29:30 09-Jul-2011 3216 kbytes
STYLE/PDF    WR/R    PDF       04:29:31 09-Jul-2011 1200 kbytes
TOOLBOX/PDF  WR/R    PDF       04:29:31 09-Jul-2011 3081 kbytes
*
  • -The PRMs arethe standard 5 RISC OS PRMs same as you already have with RISC OS.
    -ABC_414A/PDF describes ABC the BBC BASIC Compiler.
    -ASM/PDF: describes ObjAsm the standard assembler for RISC OS.
    -DDE/PDF: Describes using the desktop interface to all of the tools as well as a god discription of all of the other tools.
    -STYLE/PDF: Is the RISC OS Style guide :-) .
    -TOOLBOX/PDF describes the TOOLBOX module and its use.
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Re: gcc and RISC OS

Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:41 am

pygmy_giant wrote:Nice - a BBC BASIC compiler is pretty cool!

None of those DDE features are described here https://www.riscosopen.org/content/sales/nutpi and I cannot find any elsewhere.
Yes it does seem that te description is lacking for those that are new to RISC OS and the DDE. Perhaps I will spend some time to create a couple of new Wiki Pages for that on the ROOL site, Perhaps :-) .
Does it come with operating instructions / a reference manual?
It includes a good set of manuals in PDF (the old Acorn versions had the as printed volumes :-) ). These are:

Code: Select all

*ex
Dir. SCSI::BOOT.$.DDE.Documents.Manuals Option 02 (Run) 
CSD  SCSI::BOOT.$.DDE.Documents.Manuals
Lib. SCSI:"Unset"
URD  SCSI:"Unset"
ABC_414A/PDF WR/R    PDF       13:07:39 19-Jul-2009  415 kbytes
ASM/PDF      WR/R    PDF       04:29:26 09-Jul-2011 1230 kbytes
C_C++/PDF    WR/R    PDF       04:29:26 09-Jul-2011    6 Mbytes
DDE/PDF      WR/R    PDF       04:29:27 09-Jul-2011    4 Mbytes
INDEX/PDF    WR/R    PDF       04:29:27 09-Jul-2011 3820 kbytes
PRM1/PDF     WR/R    PDF       04:29:28 09-Jul-2011 3719 kbytes
PRM2/PDF     WR/R    PDF       04:29:29 09-Jul-2011 2812 kbytes
PRM3/PDF     WR/R    PDF       04:29:29 09-Jul-2011 3289 kbytes
PRM4/PDF     WR/R    PDF       04:29:30 09-Jul-2011 2531 kbytes
PRM5A/PDF    WR/R    PDF       04:29:30 09-Jul-2011 3216 kbytes
STYLE/PDF    WR/R    PDF       04:29:31 09-Jul-2011 1200 kbytes
TOOLBOX/PDF  WR/R    PDF       04:29:31 09-Jul-2011 3081 kbytes
  • -The PRMs are the standard 5 PRMs, same as you already have.
    -ABC_414A/PDF: Is the manual for ABC the BBC BASIC Compiler.
    -ASM/PDF: is the manual for ObjAsm the standard Assembler for RISC OS
    -C_C++/PDF is the manual for Norcroft C/C++ (AKA Acorn C/C++).
    -DDE/PDF Covers all of the desktop front ends as well as all of the other tools.
    -STYLE/PDF is the RISC OS Style Guide.
    -TOOLBOX/PDF Covers the TOOLBOX module and programming for the ToolBox.
Sorry for the short answer: I had to retype all of this because of the good old To Many Connections error on this forum.
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Re: gcc and RISC OS

Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:42 am

Sorry about the double post: the first one I had thought to been lost as I got a To Many Connections error from the forum when I attempted to post.
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Re: gcc and RISC OS

Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:20 pm

"
Sorry for the short answer: I had to retype all of this because of the good old To Many Connections error on this forum.
"

Bitter experience with several forums means if a post > 2 lines, I compose it in a text editor first, then attempt to post it.

It's another reason why Usenet is still a very viable "forum".

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Re: gcc and RISC OS

Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:22 pm

@pigmy_giant:
After enough issues to drown a horse, I have given up on using C for anything timing sencitive, or anything that includes ISRs, or any Module code.

You may wish to learn ARM Assembly. Do not be afraid, ARM assembly is extremely simple to learn.
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