nublol
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What RPi to use with RISCOS?

Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:21 pm

I have Raspberry Pi's of each generation. RPi1, RPi2 and RPi3 and i'm willing to begin with RISCOS.

-What Rpi should i use and what gives me best experience as beginner?
-Can i somehow use virtualized RISCOS on my laptop? Qemu?

Thanks for the advice.

Sincerely
Nub

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fruitoftheloom
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Re: What RPi to use with RISCOS?

Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:54 pm

nublol wrote:I have Raspberry Pi's of each generation. RPi1, RPi2 and RPi3 and i'm willing to begin with RISCOS.

-What Rpi should i use and what gives me best experience as beginner?
-Can i somehow use virtualized RISCOS on my laptop? Qemu?

Thanks for the advice.

Sincerely
Nub
Raspberry Pi 1 is more than adequate for RiscOS:

https://www.riscosopen.org/content/down ... spberry-pi


Emulator for Windows Computers, use ROOL RiscOS 5:

http://www.marutan.net/rpcemu
My only "PC" is an Asus ChromeBit running ChromeOS, cloudcentric at its best !
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DavidS
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Re: What RPi to use with RISCOS?

Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:57 pm

nublol wrote:I have Raspberry Pi's of each generation. RPi1, RPi2 and RPi3 and i'm willing to begin with RISCOS.

-What Rpi should i use and what gives me best experience as beginner?
-Can i somehow use virtualized RISCOS on my laptop? Qemu?

Thanks for the advice.

Sincerely
Nub
The RPi 2B is probably your best bet. It is compatible with most current software, and is pretty speedy.

If you do not mind some extra searching for software, then the RPi 3B is supper fast. Though there are many software titles that use instructions that have been depricated with the ARMv8.

In the end it is your choice, though I would say an RPi 2B as a good starting point.
ARM BASIC: For the love of Simplicity, Fast Interpreted BASIC, and Assembly Language.
Always KISS Keep It Simple Silly.

peterlite
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Re: What RPi to use with RISCOS?

Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:56 pm

Pi 3 has ARMv8 for 64 bit processing and all the others are 32 bit ARMv7. If you do not need 64 bit for specific software, 32 bit lets you move your code to any Pi. RISCOS is developed for the ARMv7.

The next choice is connectivity. I use a Pi 3 to use a Wifi connection.

Then you have speed. I present a speed comparison at conferences when promoting Pi consumption. After all, the Raspberry Pi is the only sugar free Pi. For a speed demonstration, I show them a high end laptop then at the end reveal the whole demonstration is running from a Zero. There is almost not speed difference for most things.

The Raspbian user interface is LXDE and that works on the Zero at the speed of your microSD card. The MATE user interface struggles on the model 3 and is useless on the Zero. The RISCOS user interface is probably lighter than LXDE.

LibreOffice works with small files on the Zero but is too slow for big files. The big files work on a model 3. What applications will you use?

I expand a 12 MB file as part of the speed comparison. 4 seconds on my notebook, 40 on a model 3 and 140 on a Zero. For speed, I develop on my notebook or model 3. The finished project can move to a Zero by simply transferring the microSD card.

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DavidS
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Re: What RPi to use with RISCOS?

Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:04 pm

If you are new to RISC OS, the choice is realy either the RPi 2B (older version, not newer one), or Raspberry Pi B+. This is do to the issues of setting up RISC OS for the ARMv8 of the BCM2389 with its ARMv8 Cortex-A53, as it introduces incompatibilities, and you would need to update a lot of software to get it working, including the ROM Image.

@PeterLite:
RISC OS does NOT support WiFi at this time. Libre Ofice is Linux stuff, not RISC OS we have better office applications.

And the Zero using the BCM2385 is an ARMv6 not an ARMv7. This is a good thing though, the ARMv6 will run a lot more of the 32-bit R15 compatible software written for the ARMv3 through ARMv5, while the newer ones are less compatible.

You just got me to shut down my RPi 3B, and boot up my good old reliable RPi B (first generation from 2012), thank you.

Yes it is impressive how fast the RPi is at most things. Though for me it is the most powerfull computer I have ever owned. Being accustomed to RISC OS, I see things differently, as the RPi is actually over powered for a desktop Personal Computer.

Back in 2003 I saw a demonstration of a 2.4GHz quad core system with 1024MB of very fast RAM running some Unix like OS, and was negitively impressed, as this supper powerful system could was slower at everything they showed it doing than my 200MHz RISC PC at the time.

I know that RISC OS is a different creature than any of the Unix likes, though it is the OS I have used for about 28 years, and it continues to keep up, while still doing most things a lot faster. RISC OS programmers seem to view the world with a little more thought for effecient code, thus producing a bit faster software to do the same thing.
ARM BASIC: For the love of Simplicity, Fast Interpreted BASIC, and Assembly Language.
Always KISS Keep It Simple Silly.

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DavidS
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Re: What RPi to use with RISCOS?

Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:10 am

Sorry I am going to change my answer.

The Raspberry Pi model B+ would be your best bet. With RISC OS a RPi B+ (or equilevent) at 1000MHz iARM and 450MHz SDRAM t is as fast as an RPi 3B at 600MHz ARM and 450MHz SDRAM for most applications. There are some specialized applications that make good use of NEON or newer VFP features that are notably slower.

I had forgotten the exact comparison, though today I ran some benchmarks and other speed tests on my Raspberry Pi B (original from 2012), which is the same CPU, GPU, and RAM as the Raspberry Pi B+. The Raspberry Pi B that I am using is clocked at 450MHz SDRAM, and 1000MHz ARM.

Other notes on why to select the Raspberry Pi B+ :
The Raspberry B+ has a BCM2385 SoC, which has an ARMv6 (ARM1176), this makes it possible to run almost ALL of the software that has been made to run with a 32-Bit R15. That means that anything that will run on the Iyonix shoule run on the Raspberry Pi 1 A/B/A+/B+ without any change.

Just make sure that the CPU control pannel is set to ARMv5 Mode. This catches any unaligned data access, and emulates the old behaviour.

This adds a huge amount of no longer maintained software to the list of usable software in RISC OS. RISC OS has a very long history, so the huge added library of "It Works Out Of Box" titles will make an enormous improvement in usability.

Though in complete honesty:
I use RISC OS mostly on my Raspberry Pi 3B, running insanely fast. My RPi 3B running RISC OS is slightly overclocked:

Code: Select all

avoid_warnings=2
force_turbo=1
arm_freq=1350
core_freq=250
sdram_freq=550
over_voltage=2
temp_limit=80
boot_delay=1
These are the safe values on my particular RPi 3B. We do have the advantage with RISC OS that overclocking the GPU does not help us, so we leave it at 250MHz and do not need to overvolt as much as others, the rest makes for some extreme speed.
ARM BASIC: For the love of Simplicity, Fast Interpreted BASIC, and Assembly Language.
Always KISS Keep It Simple Silly.

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Burngate
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Re: What RPi to use with RISCOS?

Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:40 am

Quick question: is it true that RiscOs still only uses one core, even on 2B / 3B?
If so, there should be almost no gain moving to the bigger/better/more expensive Pi's

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DavidS
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Re: What RPi to use with RISCOS?

Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:09 pm

Burngate wrote:Quick question: is it true that RiscOs still only uses one core, even on 2B / 3B?
If so, there should be almost no gain moving to the bigger/better/more expensive Pi's
It is true that RISC OS currently only uses one core.

Though for gains in the newer CPU's there is more than most realize. I have done a good bit of benchmarking between the three CPU's used in the RPi, all running single core, and the performance difference between the ARM11 in the RPi 1 and the Cortex-A53 in the RPi 3B/new 2B at the same exact clock settings is 2 to 1 or better.

Thus there is a huge gain to be had by going to the RPi 3B/new 2B.

That said the downloadable SD Image for RISC OS on the RPi needs some work to run on the RPi 3B. The ROM and Firmware need to be updated, then need to skip the boot sequence to update Netsurf so it does not crash (do to depricated opcodes in the ARMv8). Then you will be able to boot, though there are still a few other things that you will need to update to be ARMv8 compatible.

Most of the commonly used software has been updated for the ARMv8, though ROOL has not yet updated the SD Card image for the Raspberry Pi.

If you are willing to do the work of updating the things that need updating, then an RPi 3B or new model RPi 2B is a huge advantage.
ARM BASIC: For the love of Simplicity, Fast Interpreted BASIC, and Assembly Language.
Always KISS Keep It Simple Silly.

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Burngate
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Re: What RPi to use with RISCOS?

Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:56 pm

DavidS wrote:... the performance difference between the ARM11 in the RPi 1 and the Cortex-A53 in the RPi 3B/new 2B at the same exact clock settings is 2 to 1 or better...
I can see I've still got a lot of learning to do, here ...

thatwhichendureth
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Re: What RPi to use with RISCOS?

Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:03 pm

Hi there,
I'm a complete newby to RISC OS, but I'm very interested in trying it out. However, I only have a Pi 3.
The ROM and Firmware need to be updated, then need to skip the boot sequence to update Netsurf so it does not crash (do to depricated opcodes in the ARMv8). Then you will be able to boot, though there are still a few other things that you will need to update to be ARMv8 compatible.
How do you do that? I'm not afraid to play around with stuff as long as I have instructions.

Thanks!
Tim

dfeugey
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Re: What RPi to use with RISCOS?

Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:43 am

1/ Make a classic RC14 SD card from this image :
https://www.riscosopen.org/content/down ... spberry-pi
I use Win32DiskImager for this operation.

2/ Update some components on the FAT part of the SD with
April or October 2016 firmware, low vector
http://www.svrsig.org/software/Update.htm

3/ Enjoy.
RISC OS FR - All RISC OS, in french (but not only)
http://www.riscos.fr/

thatwhichendureth
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Re: What RPi to use with RISCOS?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:24 am

Hey thanks!
I'll try that out. :D

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