BlueClogger
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Re: RISC OS on Raspberry Pi

Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:13 am

ROOL are now advertising the 'native' RiscOS-onna-stick' for Raspi. This looks interesting, but does anyone know how to write drivers for USB devices under RiscOS?  I'm thinking of things like mass storage, optical drives, wireless mouse/keyboard etc. - nothing too esoteric at this stage, just enough to get the system running.

Martin Hansen
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Re: RISC OS on Raspberry Pi

Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:46 am

Dave Higton is one of the experts and has written USB drivers for various USB devices over the last couple of years. They are free (e.g. RCTank, RCmini) and at;

http://www.apts04.dsl.pipex.com/

You could drop him a line to find out more, either directly or on the csa misc or ROOL forums.

If you make any progress, I'd always welcome a write up on RISCOScode.

Regards, Martin.

http://www.RISCOScode.com

Martin Hansen
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Re: RISC OS on Raspberry Pi

Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:36 am

DavidS said:


I love Risc OS.  Does any one know of any to succeed at using the 26-bit only stuff on an ARM that does not have the 26-bit modes?  This is an issue that I have been trying to sort out, it is simple enough on 32-bit addressing ARMs so long as you have support for the 26-bit modes, we do not.


There is an ingenious piece of software written by Adrian Lees called Aemulor that allowed 26 bit RISC OS applications to run on 32 bit only hardware like the Iyonix and the BeagleBoard. I am sure that getting it running on the Raspberry Pi is on Adran's 'to-do' list but he's busy getting RISC OS itself to run on Raspberry Pi first.
When Aemulor does become available, it will not necessarily be free, however.

It was originally intended as a stop-gap measure while software was converted to work on both 26 bit and 32 bit machines - such software is described as being 32 bit neutral. Most software still in regular use has been so converted (or has an alternative that has).

Regards, Martin. http://www.RISCOScode.com

Miroslav-Stimac
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Re: RISC OS on Raspberry Pi

Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:13 pm

Hello,

I never tried to use RISC OS, but I read some articles about it and it seems to be an easy to use, fast and light operating system. I think that it would be a useful operating system for the Raspberry Pi. Regarding Linux I am quite sceptical. Most Linux distributions need much RAM and the booting is slow.

Therefore I really hope that RISC OS will be sucessfully ported to the Raspberry Pi and I wish you good luck!

Best wishes,

Miroslav Stimac

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DavidS
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Re: RISC OS on Raspberry Pi

Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:32 am

Martin Hansen said:


There is an ingenious piece of software written by Adrian Lees called Aemulor that allowed 26 bit RISC OS applications to run on 32 bit only hardware like the Iyonix and the BeagleBoard. I am sure that getting it running on the Raspberry Pi is on Adran's 'to-do' list but he's busy getting RISC OS itself to run on Raspberry Pi first.
When Aemulor does become available, it will not necessarily be free, however.

It was originally intended as a stop-gap measure while software was converted to work on both 26 bit and 32 bit machines - such software is described as being 32 bit neutral. Most software still in regular use has been so converted (or has an alternative that has).

Regards, Martin. http://www.RISCOScode.com


Unfortunately Aemulor appears to be a software emulator of the CPU, this is far from ideal.

I am looking for some trick to run at full native speed 26 bit ARM software.  I have been attempting to do load time patching of the binary, though with only limited success.
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Martin Hansen
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Re: RISC OS on Raspberry Pi

Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:43 am

DavidS said:


Martin Hansen said:


There is an ingenious piece of software written by Adrian Lees called Aemulor that allowed 26 bit RISC OS applications to run on 32 bit only hardware like the Iyonix and the BeagleBoard.


Unfortunately Aemulor appears to be a software emulator of the CPU, this is far from ideal.I am looking for some trick to run at full native speed 26 bit ARM software.  I have been attempting to do load time patching of the binary, though with only limited success.


Hi David,

The main three problems are with a handful of machine code instructions, a subtle change in the way one of the registers works, plus a flag in what RISC OS calls "modules"; sections of code that extend the OS.
For a lot of software, conversion is not, when it comes to it, a big a job. It's still an effort to look at the code, think about it, and make the changes, of course. 

In the modules you can initially set the 32 bit flag and hope the code then works…

There is a lot of technical documentation on all of this at;
http://www.iyonix.com/32bit/32bit.shtml

For real technical help, the RISC OS Open Forums at ROOL are the place to ask.

They are at;

http://www.riscosopen.org/forum/posts

Hope that helps.

Happy New Year, Regards, Martin. http://www.RISCOScode.com

BlueClogger
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Re: RISC OS on Raspberry Pi

Sat Dec 31, 2011 11:41 am

After my earlier post about drivers I looked further at the ROOL site and it appears that RiscOS 5, which they provide, contains a number of native USB drivers for common uses, and there are some others available as add-ons, so using RiscOS should be a very vaible option out of the box.  I use RiscOS 4 occasionally with VirtualRPC under windows.  This uses the Windows mouse/keyboard drivers but can't generally access other USB ports.

I hope this gives encouragement to people who haven't tried RiscOS to give it a go.  At £10 for a filecore formatted OS on a USB stick you can't go far wrong.

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Re: RISC OS on Raspberry Pi

Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:17 pm

We're still thrashing through the legals, but for a personal licence we don't expect you to have to pay anything.
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resis
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Re: RISC OS on Raspberry Pi

Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:57 pm

My A3000 was my favourite computer of all time -  I was gutted when the display circuits packed up on me about 10 years ago. Now to think I can have a RISC OS toting ARM based computer running for minuscule amounts of cash.... I'm quite buzzed about it! Can't wait to get one!

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Re: RISC OS on Raspberry Pi

Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:36 pm

My present setup has a RiscPC (4.37), VRPC on a laptop (4.39) and A9home (4.42), and I'll want an Ras-Pi also on Risc OS.

My present disappointment is that the A9home won't run samba (it crashes it - probably due to my incompetence) or Lanman98 (not 32 bit - I know!)

I'm just hoping when all the fuss has died down after the launch that some way will be put in place to network Risc OS on pi with windows and linux, just like those two. I'd do it myself if I were more competent, but ...

It just strikes me that if someone decides to give Risc OS a go, then discovers they can't network to it like they could with linux, they might just give up!

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Re: RISC OS on Raspberry Pi

Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:02 pm

Burngate said:


My present disappointment is that the A9home won"t run samba (it crashes it – probably due to my incompetence) or Lanman98 (not 32 bit – I know!)

I"m just hoping when all the fuss has died down after the launch that some way will be put in place to network Risc OS on pi with windows and linux, just like those two. I"d do it myself if I were more competent, but …

It just strikes me that if someone decides to give Risc OS a go, then discovers they can"t network to it like they could with linux, they might just give up!


Networking is working on the BeagleBoard xM running RISC OS. As the network chip (NIC) on the Raspberry Pi is the same chip we're hoping networking will work straight away on the Pi. For the BeagleBoard xM the free software needed is EtherUSB available at;

http://effarig.co.uk/riscos/

The problem with the A9 is that RISCOS Ltd have not provided the support that users might have hoped for with their closed source RISC OS 6. The ROOL open source RISC OS 5 is seeming more and more like the way to go.

There's a major "RISC OS Review of 2011 / Preview of 2012" article going up on RISCOScode later today, which will give PiRO users a better understanding of where RISC OS has got to.

With best wishes, Martin. http://www.RISCOScode.com

pittdj
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Re: RISC OS on Raspberry Pi

Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:05 am

Burngate said:


My present setup has a RiscPC (4.37), VRPC on a laptop (4.39) and A9home (4.42), and I'll want an Ras-Pi also on Risc OS.

My present disappointment is that the A9home won't run samba (it crashes it - probably due to my incompetence) or Lanman98 (not 32 bit - I know!)

I'm just hoping when all the fuss has died down after the launch that some way will be put in place to network Risc OS on pi with windows and linux, just like those two. I'd do it myself if I were more competent, but ...

It just strikes me that if someone decides to give Risc OS a go, then discovers they can't network to it like they could with linux, they might just give up!


The latest LanMan98, v2.05, is 32bit and does run on my A9home.

Please do not let the A9home experience be too off putting, the A9home developers ran into some unspecified difficulty and the project was abandoned. That outfit is not involved with the current attempt to bring RISC OS to the raspberry-pi.

RISC OS running natively on the raspberry-pi should be fully competent in its networking as it already is on the Beagle Board. ShareFS should work between RISC OS platforms.

The open source fork of RISC OS under the auspices of ROOL is in good health.

Phil_12d3
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Re: RISC OS on Raspberry Pi

Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:22 pm

I used RISC OS on Archimedes at school. To think I could revisit that old friend once again

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Re: RISC OS on Raspberry Pi

Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:45 am

I do hope that Risc OS is a easily viable Option.  If it is not I will have to end up specifying that every RPi that comes out of my future donations be shipped with Risc OS and not Linux, this will mean that I will have to donate enough to cover any licensing fees and SD cards.  I do not think it would be any good for the RPi to devolve into just another Linux based Education targeted system, we already have to many of those, a proven poor paradigm.
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Re: RISC OS on Raspberry Pi

Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:08 pm

Like many on here, I to hope that Risc OS is available. In the meantime here is a screenshot showing many apps running at the same time. Screen sizes up to 4 times the area you see here are supported. I will definately purchase if it appears for the RaspberryPi.


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Re: RISC OS on Raspberry Pi

Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:29 pm

DavidS said:


I do hope that Risc OS is a easily viable Option.  If it is not I will have to end up specifying that every RPi that comes out of my future donations be shipped with Risc OS and not Linux, this will mean that I will have to donate enough to cover any licensing fees and SD cards.  I do not think it would be any good for the RPi to devolve into just another Linux based Education targeted system, we already have to many of those, a proven poor paradigm.


We already have Linux based educational targetted systems? Like what? Provenly poor? Evidence?

I'm not convinced about RiscOS as a teaching platform – better to use a platform that is actually used in the field – less to learn once you go out in to the big wide world.
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GavinNY
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Re: RISC OS on Raspberry Pi

Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:35 pm

JamesH said:


I"m not convinced about RiscOS as a teaching platform – better to use a platform that is actually used in the field – less to learn once you go out in to the big wide world.


Using that theory, there'd be even less to learn if we just continue to stick kids in front of Microsoft Word and Excel I'll definitely be using Linux on my RPi but I would love to be able to use RISC OS on it too, they're such a natural fit.

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Re: RISC OS on Raspberry Pi

Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:47 pm

GavinNY said:


JamesH said:


I"m not convinced about RiscOS as a teaching platform – better to use a platform that is actually used in the field – less to learn once you go out in to the big wide world.


Using that theory, there'd be even less to learn if we just continue to stick kids in front of Microsoft Word and Excel I'll definitely be using Linux on my RPi but I would love to be able to use RISC OS on it too, they're such a natural fit.


Not the point I was making. RiscOS - not used in the wide world. Linux (and Windows) Much used in the wide world.  Nothing to do with Excel or Word, they are not *platforms*
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Re: RISC OS on Raspberry Pi

Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:39 pm

JamesH said:


Not the point I was making. RiscOS - not used in the wide world. Linux (and Windows) Much used in the wide world.  Nothing to do with Excel or Word, they are not *platforms*


Linux only has about 4% penetration in the real world , even Apple have about twice as much popularity, MS Windows prevails here with well over 80% penetration; possibly even more if we are discussing only desktop enviroments. We also now know that certain Linux distributions won't run, and it looks as if any version that runs on the Raspi will be severely limited in terms of an operational desktop. By your argument we should only consider Windows solutions, in which case the Raspi is not appropriate hardware. RISC OS is a very light OS that would easily run in the available memory. Several programming languages (including the WIMP environment) are available on the platform. RISC OS was a great Cambridge invention that has many of the features of the modern desktop OS, don't knock it. In my view computing teachers should be teaching concepts an not training pupils in skills as is done at present under the ICT / Business Studies departments. Long live variety.

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Re: RISC OS on Raspberry Pi

Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:52 pm

In 2008, Ballmer claimed Linux was 60% of the server market -- and considering his biases, I doubt that it's below that.

The three big OSes are Windows, Mac OS, and Linux.  Only one of those can be bundled free with a $25 device.

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Re: RISC OS on Raspberry Pi

Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:35 pm

Nicely put.

I should say I have nothing against RiscOS whatsoever, I just have a feeling it might be worth teaching people on an OS they will encountered in the real world.

Linux penetration is currently fairly steady at about 5% on the desktop. On mobile devices it's over 50%, on consumer devices (routers, TV's, STB's etc) it's up in the 80's I think, on supercomputers is over 90%. If you total up all devices, I think Linux beats Windows!
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Re: RISC OS on Raspberry Pi

Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:41 pm

1aws said:


and it looks as if any version that runs on the Raspi will be severely limited in terms of an operational desktop.


I hope you don't mind me asking, but how would they be limited? I'm just curious, as I'm already used to using a 600MHz ARM device with a full Xfce desktop environment (my Pandora, specifically, which also has 256MB of RAM, like the RPi Model B), and that's exactly the same as I use on my x86 box. That's not limited in any way – is there some issue with the Raspberry Pi that makes this not so, here? (Again, not being facetious or anything, just genuinely curious if there's some sort of problem I've missed.)

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Re: RISC OS on Raspberry Pi

Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:50 pm

Prometheus said:


1aws said:


and it looks as if any version that runs on the Raspi will be severely limited in terms of an operational desktop.


I hope you don"t mind me asking, but how would they be limited? I"m just curious, as I"m already used to using a 600MHz ARM device with a full Xfce desktop environment (my Pandora, specifically, which also has 256MB of RAM, like the RPi Model B), and that"s exactly the same as I use on my x86 box. That"s not limited in any way – is there some issue with the Raspberry Pi that makes this not so, here? (Again, not being facetious or anything, just genuinely curious if there"s some sort of problem I"ve missed.)


I've tried LXDE and that works fine on the Raspi. So in general a low footprint desktop works fine. Start running high memory programs on it and it will suffer, but that the same on anything!
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Re: RISC OS on Raspberry Pi

Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:53 pm

JamesH said:


I've tried LXDE and that works fine on the Raspi. So in general a low footprint desktop works fine. Start running high memory programs on it and it will suffer, but that the same on anything!


That's precisely what I expected (and I'm already the sort who doesn't need to run anything heavy, anyway, so that's all good for me ). Thanks muchly for the confirmation.

I prefer stuff like Xfce and LXDE anyway.

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Re: RISC OS on Raspberry Pi

Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:42 pm

JamesH and Prometheus. Thanks for your patience with me.

Let me say that I am very keen to see this succeed, I will certainly be purchasing one as soon as possible.  I have, however, some concerns and hope that my fears can be put to rest.

Apps within RISC OS include: Draw, Edit, Paint, Maestro, SparkFS (ZIP file unpacker), UnTar, Printer driver app, Artworks viewer, PDF viewer, BBC BASIC as well as a few games. All within 20MB including the OS.

All of these  applications as well as a word processor, spreadsheet, browser loaded use some 6-12MB of memory,  That is less than 40MB; it would easily fit into a Model A. Remember on the RasPi the memory is shared between OS and video. I believe the video takes some 64MB, leaving only 64MB on Model A and 192MB on Model B.

Here is a snapshot of RISC OS running a large number of applications at once, the main window is showing the amount of memory used (total is around 12MB).  There is also a 4MB RAM disc operating.  All of this would easily fit onto a Raspberry Model A.



I have only used Xfce within Xubuntu and apparently it was using about 190MB. I have been told, however, that it will run in about 128MB. This doesn't leave a lot for other applications. I trust enough for Python etc.

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