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How long will it take for Risc OS to be on todays level of Raspbian?

Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:56 pm

There is loooooong way: YouTube in browser, multi tasked apps, Wi-Fi, USB drivers for everything, support for over 1 TB HDD etc. etc.
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Re: How long will it take for Risc OS to be on todays level as is Raspbian?

Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:01 pm

Musketeer wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:56 pm
There is loooooongqway: YouTube in browser, multi tasked apps, Wi-Fi, USB drivers for everything, support for over 1 TB HDD etc. etc.
They are two different OS's, multitasking will always be done differently (though BOTH have that already)

RISC OS is already beginnning to get SMP. Youtube is whatchable, and people are working on getting that into our browser of choice.

People are working on the FS size issue over at RISC OS Open.

WiFi is something that is a very high priority over at RISC OS Open and being worked on.

We already have USB. If you are talking about support for specific devices, class drivers are written as needed as with any OS. Feel free to port class drivers for stuff you need.

So in sum they will never be on the same level (some areas Raspbian will always be ahead, other areas RISC OS will always be ahead) as they are very different OS's.

Though most of what you want is coming soon, probably within 2 years or less.

For now if you need WiFi you can use something along the lines of the Vonets VAP11G WiFi to Ethernet bridge.
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Re: How long will it take for Risc OS to be on todays level of Raspbian?

Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:10 pm

Do not want be disrespectful but reality check - we have 2019, Risc OS was shown in 2012? What was done in 8 years in lets say % measure from whole plan?

Raspbian will be in those years another beast altogether... Sad but size of community probubbly... I still have to use it even when cont want - there are SOME better tools (like Libre Office) + accelerated h.264 videos in CHrome + VLC. I don't have anything against Risc OS, but there is less to offer TODAY for person which didn't grow on it...
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Re: How long will it take for Risc OS to be on todays level of Raspbian?

Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:29 pm

Musketeer wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:10 pm
Do not want be disrespectful but reality check - we have 2019, Risc OS was shown in 2012? What was done in 8 years in lets say % measure from whole plan?
RISC OS has been around since 1987, and Linux has been around since 1991.

Linux has had SMP support since the late 1990's, RISC OS never ran on HW that provided it until recently. As SMP is a bit of a bit of a different philosophy it takes time.

RISC OS has a lot fewer developers than Linux. So you want more done on RISC OS, join us and help us develop software for RISC OS. We might have one programmer targetting RISC OS for every 20000 targetting Linux, so it is a bit lopsided. We need more programmers.
Raspbian will be in those years another beast altogether... Sad but size of community probubbly... I still have to use it even when cont want - there are SOME better tools (like Libre Office) + accelerated h.264 videos in CHrome + VLC. I don't have anything against Risc OS, but there is less to offer TODAY for person which didn't grow on it...
Yes it is true that there are more programs available on Linux. I would dissagree about Libre Office being better (worse in my view). We have Ovation, FireWorkz, etc much better than Lebre Office.

I do not like the huge slow beast that is Chromium, though part of the issue is how people write there sites (messed up).

So yes there are times that we need to hit linux, but only do to the messed up way people do things on the Web. As a note there is a web browser port comming soon that is modern (a port of OWB), and has most of the features you want. I think they are making fairly good progress on that port.
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Re: How long will it take for Risc OS to be on todays level of Raspbian?

Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:39 pm

Great news on browser... NetSurf has its limits...

I hope soon Risc OS has its glory days back... But there are some tough competition out there!

You are sometimes because of work forced to some platform and to some software... :/ Just wait till you be outta school! :ugeek:
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Re: How long will it take for Risc OS to be on todays level of Raspbian?

Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:43 pm

Never.
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Re: How long will it take for Risc OS to be on todays level of Raspbian?

Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:01 pm

Musketeer wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:39 pm
Great news on browser... NetSurf has its limits...

I hope soon Risc OS has its glory days back... But there are some tough competition out there!
I second that motion. Though I hope it does not become to big (that is what ruins an OS, and what has caused a lot of the problems that drove me awayfrom the Unix and Linux world).
You are sometimes because of work forced to some platform and to some software... :/ Just wait till you be outta school! :ugeek:
I thankfully do not have that trouble. I work in the embedded world, and our development tools only run on RISC OS :) . Sorry can not say much more, our tools are in house only. Now we are looking at using RISC OS in some of our future products, as the management never wanted to pay for the licenses to sale RISC OS before it was open source.
Last edited by DavidS on Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How long will it take for Risc OS to be on todays level of Raspbian?

Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:04 pm

gkreidl wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:43 pm
Never.
I agree that Linux will never catch up with RISC OS in certain things. I also agree there are a couple of things where Linux has an edge (only a couple though) that RISC OS will not.

For most of the rest RISC OS is heading quickly to catching up, or in some cases is already there. And RISC OS still has its advantages that any n*x system is lacking (including Linux).
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Re: How long will it take for Risc OS to be on todays level of Raspbian?

Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:44 pm

DavidS wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:04 pm
gkreidl wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:43 pm
Never.
I agree that Linux will never catch up with RISC OS in certain things. I also agree there are a couple of things where Linux has an edge (only a couple though) that RISC OS will not.

For most of the rest RISC OS is heading quickly to catching up, or in some cases is already there. And RISC OS still has its advantages that any n*x system is lacking (including Linux).
Nice 180.

I cannot think of something that RISCOS does better than Linux.
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Re: How long will it take for Risc OS to be on todays level of Raspbian?

Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:56 pm

jamesh wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:44 pm
DavidS wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:04 pm
gkreidl wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:43 pm
Never.
I agree that Linux will never catch up with RISC OS in certain things. I also agree there are a couple of things where Linux has an edge (only a couple though) that RISC OS will not.

For most of the rest RISC OS is heading quickly to catching up, or in some cases is already there. And RISC OS still has its advantages that any n*x system is lacking (including Linux).
Nice 180.

I cannot think of something that RISCOS does better than Linux.
Cooperative Multitasking, Single Tasking, Dropping the OS from a user program, running Sophie Wilsons BBC BASIC. These are just a few things that RISC OS does better than Linux, I could probably come up with more, though that is a good start.

Of course the list of things Amiga OS/MorphOS/AROS (native) does better than Linux is a good bit longer, though that is for a different thread.
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Re: How long will it take for Risc OS to be on todays level of Raspbian?

Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:32 am

DavidS wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:56 pm
Cooperative Multitasking
Is that really a good thing?

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Re: How long will it take for Risc OS to be on todays level of Raspbian?

Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:00 am

rpdom wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:32 am
DavidS wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:56 pm
Cooperative Multitasking
Is that really a good thing?
No.
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Re: How long will it take for Risc OS to be on todays level of Raspbian?

Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:44 am

jamesh wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:00 am
rpdom wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:32 am
DavidS wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:56 pm
Cooperative Multitasking
Is that really a good thing?
No.
Other than in situations where it is.
In which case, yes.

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Re: How long will it take for Risc OS to be on todays level of Raspbian?

Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:09 pm

Burngate wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:44 am
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:00 am
rpdom wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:32 am

Is that really a good thing?
No.
Other than in situations where it is.
In which case, yes.
Much better answer :).
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Re: How long will it take for Risc OS to be on todays level of Raspbian?

Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:21 pm

rpdom wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:32 am
DavidS wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:56 pm
Cooperative Multitasking
Is that really a good thing?
Yes and No.

Cooperative multitasking can have its advantages, as well as dissadvantages.

The thing is that people forget the whole picture when it comes to the argument of Preemptive Multitasking versus Cooperative Multitasking, and just assume that preemptive is always better.

Cooperative Multitasking can make for a more responcive system. Not to mention that it tends to highlight poorly written or ported code, and tends to keep poorly implemented applications from gaining traction (either because they do not give other things enough time or because they do not give themselves enough time to run, in either case making something seem very sluggish).

Despite popular opinion, it really is no more difficult to write an Application that uses the Windowing System of an OS for Cooperative Multitasking. We are doing no more than what you still have to do in a preemptive multitasking system.

Preemptive multitasking systems will often have applications that seem unresponsive for an extended period of time, without good reason. This is because the authors choose to not whach for events being sent to them while doing certain things, and this makes users frustrated. On a cooperative multitasking system such behaviour would cause other applications to not get time for a while, making the whole system feel unresponcive (and no one would use the program).

As can be seen cooperative multitasking encorages people to write more responsive programs.

And on RISC OS we do have preemptive multitasking for command line applications (by using task windows). So the one area where Preemptive multitasking stands to be the most helpful we still have in RISC OS.

All applications using the Window Manager should be written to be responcive on all systems (cooperative or preemptive). Often times people writing for preemptive multitasking systems forget this, and openly frustrate there users by becoming unresponcive for extended periods (which would not fly on a cooperative multitasking system).

We all know the advantages of preemptive multitasking so I will leave that one be.

EDIT: Added inphasis of what may not have been being read.
Last edited by DavidS on Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How long will it take for Risc OS to be on todays level of Raspbian?

Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:05 pm

Just beware that Risc OS with 90 % more driver code etc. is not more chunky like another Linux ;).
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Re: How long will it take for Risc OS to be on todays level of Raspbian?

Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:10 pm

Musketeer wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:05 pm
Just beware that Risc OS with 90 % more driver code etc. is not more chunky like another Linux ;).
I do not think it will be that much of a difference.

And because of the way that RISC OS works, it is very unlikley that adding more HW support will make a difference in the performance, it is a very different model than Linux, BSD, Windows, etc. In RISC OS most HW support is provided by modules that only interface with those modules and programs that are reasonable to so do, often time not involving the kernel at all (except for loading the module and memory allocation, and passing forward SWI calls to the module).
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Re: How long will it take for Risc OS to be on todays level of Raspbian?

Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:25 pm

DavidS wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:10 pm
Musketeer wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:05 pm
Just beware that Risc OS with 90 % more driver code etc. is not more chunky like another Linux ;).
I do not think it will be that much of a difference.

And because of the way that RISC OS works, it is very unlikley that adding more HW support will make a difference in the performance, it is a very different model than Linux, BSD, Windows, etc. In RISC OS most HW support is provided by modules that only interface with those modules and programs that are reasonable to so do, often time not involving the kernel at all (except for loading the module and memory allocation, and passing forward SWI calls to the module).
Even Skype became bloatware ;).
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Re: How long will it take for Risc OS to be on todays level of Raspbian?

Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:55 pm

Musketeer wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:25 pm
DavidS wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:10 pm
Musketeer wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:05 pm
Just beware that Risc OS with 90 % more driver code etc. is not more chunky like another Linux ;).
I do not think it will be that much of a difference.

And because of the way that RISC OS works, it is very unlikley that adding more HW support will make a difference in the performance, it is a very different model than Linux, BSD, Windows, etc. In RISC OS most HW support is provided by modules that only interface with those modules and programs that are reasonable to so do, often time not involving the kernel at all (except for loading the module and memory allocation, and passing forward SWI calls to the module).
Even Skype became bloatware ;).
Skype was always bloatware. I take it you never used CuSeeMe, long before we had Skype. The video calling and video conferencing software of the 1990's had the correct idea, and could have been extended to support higher resolution video as faster internet connections became more popular.

CuSeeMe was probably the most popular and best of the video calling/conferencing software of the 1990's, and it was a lot less bloated than Skype ever was (even though some said that even CuSeeMe was more bloated than it needed to be).
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Re: How long will it take for Risc OS to be on todays level of Raspbian?

Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:05 pm

Lot of apps is written in assembler no? So as they are bigger after time, they will not be unmanageable?
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Re: How long will it take for Risc OS to be on todays level of Raspbian?

Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:36 pm

DavidS wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:10 pm
And because of the way that RISC OS works, it is very unlikley that adding more HW support will make a difference in the performance, it is a very different model than Linux, BSD, Windows, etc. In RISC OS most HW support is provided by modules that only interface with those modules and programs that are reasonable to so do, often time not involving the kernel at all (except for loading the module and memory allocation, and passing forward SWI calls to the module).
I don't see what is very different from Linux drivers in what you describe, It looks the same (including the word 'module').
So I googled a bit to understand the difference and looks like it is mainly due to lack of proper memory protection as per http://www.drobe.co.uk/article.php?id=1327
The RISC OS module model. RISC OS modules are very powerful; they run with the same status as the rest of the operating system (which is mostly built from modules itself), which means that any badly written module has free reign to trash whatever it likes. On top of that, the module area, where modules themselves live and their workspace is allocated from, is readily accessible from RISC OS applications. This has advantages - it means that modules can directly pass back references to buffers they have, avoiding a copying mechanism. This design accounts for much of the responsiveness of RISC OS on relatively low specification hardware, but is clearly also wide open to abuse by misbehaving applications or other modules.

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Re: How long will it take for Risc OS to be on todays level of Raspbian?

Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:42 pm

I don't see what is very different from Linux drivers in what you describe, It looks the same (including the word 'module').
So I googled a bit to understand the difference and looks like it is mainly due to lack of proper memory protection as per http://www.drobe.co.uk/article.php?id=1327
While it is true that memory protection is more limited on RISC OS, it is not as bad as some make it sound. Applications are protected in a proper way, it is modules that get extra access, and modules generally do not run in USER mode any way so it would make little difference. Not to mention that it is possible to drop out of USER mode into a privledged mode of operation from any application.

Now on the way things are done:

In Linux things are done in a way where there is a lot of interdependancy for drivers, do to the device archetecture of Linux. In RISC OS the modules providing device support are often much more independant, as there is no single way of doing many things in RISC OS, so the interdependance is much less. This makes a bigger difference than the memory protection issue.

Also modules in Linux are a different thing than modules in RISC OS.

In RISC OS a module can be a full blown desktop application, modules are what we use instead of shared libraries, modules are responcible for providing 100% of the API, modules can each provide multiple commands for use on the CLI (Star Commands as we call them), and a lot more. Basically all of RISC OS is Modules (UtilityModule being the core/kernel module).

In RISC OS it is possible, and common not to load a module until an application needs its services. It is also common to unload modules that are not needed at the time.

NOTE: While applications can be written as modules, that is usually recommend against. It is better to use normal AIF type applications, and flat binary executables with an origin of &8000 are alowable for USER mode applications as well.

Here is a list of the 151 modules currently loaded on my RISC OS system, you will note that some are libraries of functions, some are desktop applications, some are extensions for particular applications, some are drivers, some are other parts of the OS, etc (just rebooted [do to shutdown for bad storm], so some have not been loaded that often are):

Code: Select all

*modules
No. Position Workspace Name
  1 FC020B14 00000000  UtilityModule
  2 FC045470 20000014  PCI
  3 FC04741C 200001D4  FileSwitch
  4 FC054278 20001694  ResourceFS
  5 FC054F78 200016D4  TerritoryManager
  6 FC0574BC 00000000  Messages
  7 FC146A28 200017D4  MessageTrans
  8 FC147E18 20003614  UK
  9 FC16A2B8 00000000  SharedCLibrary
 10 FC1CF844 20003EB4  BufferManager
 11 FC1E77D8 20003ED4  DeviceFS
 12 FC1EC3C0 20004014  RTSupport
 13 FC1EF774 200069B4  USBDriver
 14 FC1FBE38 2000B574  DWCDriver
 15 FC275794 20017654  InternationalKeyboard
 16 FC149AD0 2001DFB4  WindowManager
 17 FC16571C 201FBC94  TaskManager
 18 FC169650 00000000  Desktop
 19 FC19E984 00000000  BASIC
 20 FC1AFC90 00000000  BASIC64
 21 FC1BF164 00000000  BASICVFP
 22 FC1CF14C 2001B474  BlendTable
 23 FC1D0AAC 20048454  ColourTrans
 24 FC1D5934 2001B194  Debugger
 25 FC1E9CE4 20019ED4  BCMSupport
 26 FC1EB948 20019BF4  Portable
 27 FC214528 200235F4  VCHIQ
 28 FC21B37C 200191F4  BCMSound
 29 FC21BD08 20044AF4  ScreenModes
 30 FC222804 20018314  BCMVideo
 31 FC22519C 201E5874  DisplayManager
 32 FC227328 20049B14  DMAManager
 33 FC22A2E8 2001BBD4  DragASprite
 34 FC22BAA4 00000000  DragAnObject
 35 FC22BFD0 20049F94  Draw
 36 FC22F308 201E6E94  FileCore%RAM
    FC22F308 200A52B4  FileCore%SDFS
    FC22F308 200609B4  FileCore%SCSI
    FC22F308 00000000  FileCore%Base
 37 FC2433B0 202228D4  Filer
 38 FC24C5A0 2004A134  FilerSWIs
 39 FC24C89C 2004A234  FSLock
 40 FC24D9EC 2004A554  FontManager
 41 FC25E948 2004B3F4  FPEmulator
 42 FC264F1C 2004B554  VFPSupport
 43 FC26CE64 2004B714  Free
 44 FC26E658 2004C034  Hourglass
 45 FC26F0B4 2004C134  IIC
 46 FC26F4BC 2004C154  International
 47 FC288750 2004C174  InverseTable
 48 FC28F3A0 00000000  NetFiler
 49 FC2936C4 2004C594  NetStatus
 50 FC293A20 00000000  Obey
 51 FC2943D0 2004C5B4  Pinboard
 52 FC29A160 2004D294  PipeFS
 53 FC29B60C 20224A54  RAMFSFiler
 54 FC29C4E4 20224FF4  ResourceFiler
 55 FC29CCB0 00000000  ROMFonts
 56 FC2F1F84 200480F4  ScreenBlanker
 57 FC2F28CC 2004D2F4  ScrSaver
 58 FC2F31A4 201C8854  Serial%1
    FC2F31A4 00000000  Serial%Base
 59 FC2F4D2C 20047E74  SerialDeviceSupport
 60 FC2F5404 00000000  ShellCLI
 61 FC2F5A74 2004E5B4  SoundDMA
 62 FC2F7DD8 2004E7D4  SoundControl
 63 FC2F94AC 2004FC34  SoundChannels
 64 FC2FACD8 20051DF4  SoundScheduler
 65 FC2FB6B0 20053E14  SpriteExtend
 66 FC320230 00000000  SpriteUtils
 67 FC320820 20056FB4  Squash
 68 FC32247C 200580F4  BootFX
 69 FC324ED8 00000000  SuperSample
 70 FC3257FC 20056DB4  SystemDevices
 71 FC32687C 20059974  TaskWindow
 72 FC328EE4 00000000  WindowUtils
 73 FC328F4C 200599B4  FilterManager
 74 FC32A3D4 20059A54  WaveSynth
 75 FC32AF58 2005A1F4  StringLib
 76 FC32BB48 2005AB34  Percussion
 77 FC32C84C 2005B594  SharedSound
 78 FC32E214 00000000  Filer_Action
 79 FC3354C8 2005C7B4  DOSFS
 80 FC341134 2005DB34  SCSIDriver
 81 FC3447F0 2005F154  SCSISoftUSB
 82 FC3483B8 200606F4  SCSIFS
 83 FC349B9C 202254F4  SCSIFiler
 84 FC34E30C 200A1EB4  SDIODriver
 85 FC3577D8 200A3914  SDFS
 86 FC35BB60 202266D4  SDFSFiler
 87 FC35FDA8 2014DFD4  SDCMOS
 88 FC3600E8 200E69D4  ColourPicker
 89 FC36DF5C 200EC874  DrawFile
 90 FC373ACC 200EE474  BootCommands
 91 FC3761E4 00000000  AUNMsgs
 92 FC3762D8 2004E554  MbufManager
 93 FC3789E4 20138F14  Internet
 94 FC399F74 2013CF74  Resolver
 95 FC3A4B74 00000000  BootNet
 96 FC3B8D00 2013E994  MimeMap
 97 FC3BA068 2013FC54  LanManFS
 98 FC3D0398 2014AA54  EtherUSB
 99 FC3DC524 2014C834  DHCP
100 FC3E11C8 2014F454  AcornURI
101 FC3E2F58 00000000  !Edit
102 FC3E5CE4 00000000  !Draw
103 FC40FA74 00000000  !Paint
104 FC4273D0 00000000  !Alarm
105 FC434860 00000000  !Chars
106 FC438500 00000000  !Help
107 FC43ADC8 20150874  Toolbox
108 FC43F8FC 20152014  Window
109 FC44DB04 20153B74  ToolAction
110 FC44F620 20154DD4  Menu
111 FC453634 201562F4  Iconbar
112 FC455F58 201577F4  ColourDbox
113 FC458D5C 20158C14  ColourMenu
114 FC45B9C8 2015A294  DCS
115 FC45DCB4 2015B694  FileInfo
116 FC460770 2015CB94  FontDbox
117 FC464480 2015E1D4  FontMenu
118 FC466CF4 2015F6B4  PrintDbox
119 FC46A988 20160BD4  ProgInfo
120 FC46DA28 201620F4  SaveAs
121 FC4712E8 20163754  Scale
122 FC473864 20164AF4  TextGadgets
123 FC47DD10 201668D4  CDFSDriver
124 FC47F1FC 20167514  CDFSSoftSCSI
125 FC481724 2016A794  CDFS
126 FC485990 00000000  CDFSFiler
127 FC4885F4 00000101  UnSqueezeAIF
128 FC48890C 201B15D4  GPIO
129 201E3974 201E3154  DeepKeys
130 FC2428AC 201E3094  RamFS
131 20204914 201FD314  Fat32fs
132 2022B234 00000000  ObeySupport
133 20216554 20215BB4  DitherExtend
134 20260C34 20282394  ArtworksRenderer
135 2028DEB4 202159B4  GSpriteExtend
136 202952F4 2029F114  GDraw
137 202DF394 202E20F4  SpecialFX
138 202E5E34 2021E3D4  NetTime
139 202EAE14 202E4434  Tabs
140 202F0B54 201E18F4  SharedUnixLibrary
141 202F2594 201E18D4  DDEUtils
142 202F37B4 202E33B4  CPUClock
143 202F71D4 202FD634  Tinct
144 20310F14 203211F4  Iconv
145 20327794 2032B494  CryptRandom
146 20340AB4 2034E014  StrongHelp
147 20350594 20333E54  ZapRedraw
148 2035AAD4 20359FD4  Zap
149 20398154 203335B4  ZapButtons
150 20399254 20332BF4  ZapTaskWindow
151 2039C9F4 5177F014  LineEditor
*
Some of these are in RAM, some are in ROM.

So as you can see the story goes a little deaper than you might expect (unless you know RISC OS well).
RPi = The best ARM based RISC OS computer around
More than 95% of posts made from RISC OS on RPi 1B/1B+ computers. Most of the rest from RISC OS on RPi 2B/3B/3B+ computers

User avatar
DavidS
Posts: 4334
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:39 am
Location: USA
Contact: Website

Re: How long will it take for Risc OS to be on todays level of Raspbian?

Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:49 pm

Musketeer wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:05 pm
Lot of apps is written in assembler no? So as they are bigger after time, they will not be unmanageable?
Maintaining applications written in Assembly is no different from any other programming language. You can have unmanageable code in C, C++, BASIC, etc if it is not well structured.

In the same vein you can have well orginized Assembly Language Code that is easy to manage as a project grows.

So the answer is that it all comes down to how well you structure the code. And in a few cases how much time you are willing to spend re-structuring older code that was not done as well. And that is true no matter what programming language you choose.
RPi = The best ARM based RISC OS computer around
More than 95% of posts made from RISC OS on RPi 1B/1B+ computers. Most of the rest from RISC OS on RPi 2B/3B/3B+ computers

Heater
Posts: 12955
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: How long will it take for Risc OS to be on todays level of Raspbian?

Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:20 pm

RISC OS is never going to catch up with anything. It can only make slow progress because it has very few developers. It has very few developers because it is written in assembler and therefore not cross-platform. People don't to invest their time on something so restricted and with no future.

If RISC OS does not make the jump to 64 bits soon you will need an emulator to run it, rather like we do old 8 bit games and operating systems when we feel nostalgic.

Contrary to statements above, it is not easier to meet hard real-time constraints on a cooperative system. Although there may be other reasons to select a cooperative scheduler. I hope no one is misled by this.

Contrary to statements above, the issue of unresponsive GUIs is not down to the use of a preemptive multitasking system. The same situations, missing/ignoring GUI events, can be achieved with a cooperative scheduler.

Managing large bodies of assembler is self evidently harder than using a high level language.

User avatar
DavidS
Posts: 4334
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:39 am
Location: USA
Contact: Website

Re: How long will it take for Risc OS to be on todays level of Raspbian?

Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:30 pm

@Heater:
You may wish to re-read the post you are refering to. I added some highlighting with bold and italics to show what you may have missed. Other than the highlighting and a comment about the edit of the post the content is completely unchanged.

Even the closing paragraph of the body of that post should say a lot to the true meaning of what was said.
DavidS wrote:All applications using the Window Manager should be written to be responcive on all systems (cooperative or preemptive). Often times people writing for preemptive multitasking systems forget this, and openly frustrate there users by becoming unresponcive for extended periods (which would not fly on a cooperative multitasking system).


******************************************

From a ducks back, runs water. Learn this, I must.
Last edited by DavidS on Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:38 am, edited 5 times in total.
RPi = The best ARM based RISC OS computer around
More than 95% of posts made from RISC OS on RPi 1B/1B+ computers. Most of the rest from RISC OS on RPi 2B/3B/3B+ computers

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