User avatar
scruss
Posts: 1821
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:25 pm
Location: Toronto, ON
Contact: Website

RISC OS now under the Apache 2.0 Licence

Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:59 am

RISC OS Open Ltd (ROOL) are hugely proud to announce that we will be working with RISC OS Developments (ROD), following their recent acquisition of the RISC OS intellectual property through the purchase of Castle Technology Ltd (Castle), in the next phase of the mission to reinvigorate the RISC OS market.

ROD will be working alongside community maintainers ROOL to republish the source code to this popular niche operating system under the Apache 2.0 License, in a move aimed at removing existing barriers to entry for developers from the Open Source community and enabling free-of-charge use in commercial products for the first time in RISC OS’s history.
RISC OS is open for business!
‘Remember the Golden Rule of Selling: “Do not resort to violence.”’ — McGlashan.

User avatar
DavidS
Posts: 3141
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:39 am
Location: USA
Contact: Website

Re: RISC OS now under the Apache 2.0 Licence

Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:17 pm

I am hopeful that more RPi users will now be looking at RISC OS. I am also hopeful that Raspberry Pi will honer there word to support RISC OS as an operating system for the Raspberry Pi (like they said they would in 2011).
26-Bit R15 to 32-bit. 16-bit addressing to 24-bit. ARM and 65xx two CPU's that continue on, and are better than ever. Assembly Language forever :) .

DarkPlatinum
Posts: 403
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:30 pm
Contact: Website

Re: RISC OS now under the Apache 2.0 Licence

Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:23 pm

I see that RISCos is a desktop. How does it compare to Raspbian? Does it have driver support, hardware enabled video play back, how much memory does the desktop take, etc.
1 * Raspberry Pi Zero W, 1 * Raspberry Pi 2, 1 * Raspberry Pi 3 1 * Raspberry Pi 3B + :mrgreen:

ShiftPlusOne
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 5329
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:36 pm
Location: The unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy

Re: RISC OS now under the Apache 2.0 Licence

Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:30 pm

DarkPlatinum wrote:I see that RISCos is a desktop.
It's a whole OS, not just a desktop.
DarkPlatinum wrote:How does it compare to Raspbian?
They are alike in the sense that they are both operating systems. That's probably where the similarity ends.
DarkPlatinum wrote:Does it have driver support
Some, but don't expect wifi and other random USB devices to work.
DarkPlatinum wrote:hardware enabled video play back
I don't think so, but I haven't checked. That's not what it's for.
DarkPlatinum wrote:how much memory does the desktop take, etc.
Hardly any.

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 20695
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: RISC OS now under the Apache 2.0 Licence

Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:52 pm

DavidS wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:17 pm
I am hopeful that more RPi users will now be looking at RISC OS. I am also hopeful that Raspberry Pi will honer there word to support RISC OS as an operating system for the Raspberry Pi (like they said they would in 2011).
AFAIK, we don't have anyone in the office who knows anything about RISCOS, so any support would have to be third party. I'm sure we would be happy to answer any technical question from those third parties.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Please direct all questions to the forum, I do not do support via PM.

DarkPlatinum
Posts: 403
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:30 pm
Contact: Website

Re: RISC OS now under the Apache 2.0 Licence

Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:54 pm

ShiftPlusOne wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:30 pm
DarkPlatinum wrote:hardware enabled video play back
I don't think so, but I haven't checked. That's not what it's for.
DarkPlatinum wrote:how much memory does the desktop take, etc.
Hardly any.
What are its uses? What can you do with it.
1 * Raspberry Pi Zero W, 1 * Raspberry Pi 2, 1 * Raspberry Pi 3 1 * Raspberry Pi 3B + :mrgreen:

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 20695
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: RISC OS now under the Apache 2.0 Licence

Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:03 pm

DarkPlatinum wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:54 pm
ShiftPlusOne wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:30 pm
DarkPlatinum wrote:hardware enabled video play back
I don't think so, but I haven't checked. That's not what it's for.
DarkPlatinum wrote:how much memory does the desktop take, etc.
Hardly any.
What are its uses? What can you do with it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RISC_OS
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Please direct all questions to the forum, I do not do support via PM.

User avatar
DavidS
Posts: 3141
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:39 am
Location: USA
Contact: Website

Re: RISC OS now under the Apache 2.0 Licence

Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:17 pm

DarkPlatinum wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:54 pm
ShiftPlusOne wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:30 pm
DarkPlatinum wrote:hardware enabled video play back
I don't think so, but I haven't checked. That's not what it's for.
DarkPlatinum wrote:how much memory does the desktop take, etc.
Hardly any.
What are its uses? What can you do with it.
RISC OS is a very different Desktop computer Operating System, that was specifically written for the first ARM based computers originally. It is NOT a unix like system.

RISC OS is usable for programming, desktop publishing/ word processing, graphics editing, video editing, simulation, some gaming, browsing the web (without JS or video), and just about anything else so long as there is a program to do the job.

An OS does not provide the ability to do the things, it is the programs running on the OS, RISC OS is a bit behind in support for some things, especially in the area of the web (lacking a good HTML5 browser, the good browser has limited Java Script support, and NO support for embeded videos in web pages.).

RISC OS is a fast small OS that is native to ARM based systems, it does not yet have support for much graphics acceleration with VideoCoreIV GPU. Though it does quite well otherwise, and there are even a couple o games that do use VideoCoreIV acceleration on the RPi series of SBC's.

Though if you are accustomed to Amiga/Macintosh/Unix X Desktop/ ST/Windows/BeOS style GUI's you will find that all those others may as well be identical twins when you see how different using RISC OS is. RISC OS is easy to use, it is just quite a bit different from the others, in the way things are done (in my opinion easier than any of the others, though if you are accustomed to the others there will be a learning curve).
26-Bit R15 to 32-bit. 16-bit addressing to 24-bit. ARM and 65xx two CPU's that continue on, and are better than ever. Assembly Language forever :) .

DarkPlatinum
Posts: 403
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:30 pm
Contact: Website

Re: RISC OS now under the Apache 2.0 Licence

Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:31 pm

DavidS wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:17 pm
An OS does not provide the ability to do the things, it is the programs running on the OS, RISC OS is a bit behind in support for some things, especially in the area of the web (lacking a good HTML5 browser, the good browser has limited Java Script support, and NO support for embeded videos in web pages.).
I've looked around and it seems that its is a very old system. The GUI looks somewhat like windows 2000/xp. Do people actually use this for day to day browsing? What are the most common use cases? it seems like it lacks many modern software, latest software for download is made in 2012?
1 * Raspberry Pi Zero W, 1 * Raspberry Pi 2, 1 * Raspberry Pi 3 1 * Raspberry Pi 3B + :mrgreen:

n67
Posts: 839
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:55 pm

Re: RISC OS now under the Apache 2.0 Licence

Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:32 pm

DarkPlatinum wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:31 pm
DavidS wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:17 pm
An OS does not provide the ability to do the things, it is the programs running on the OS, RISC OS is a bit behind in support for some things, especially in the area of the web (lacking a good HTML5 browser, the good browser has limited Java Script support, and NO support for embeded videos in web pages.).
I've looked around and it seems that its is a very old system. The GUI looks somewhat like windows 2000/xp. Do people actually use this for day to day browsing? What are the most common use cases?
It's the sort of thing that is well-liked by the sort of people who like this sort of thing.
"L'enfer, c'est les autres"

If a post offends you, just put that poster on your foes list, and be done with it (and with them).

To do otherwise, risks being banned.

User avatar
DavidS
Posts: 3141
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:39 am
Location: USA
Contact: Website

Re: RISC OS now under the Apache 2.0 Licence

Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:37 pm

DarkPlatinum wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:31 pm
DavidS wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:17 pm
An OS does not provide the ability to do the things, it is the programs running on the OS, RISC OS is a bit behind in support for some things, especially in the area of the web (lacking a good HTML5 browser, the good browser has limited Java Script support, and NO support for embeded videos in web pages.).
I've looked around and it seems that its is a very old system. The GUI looks somewhat like windows 2000/xp. Do people actually use this for day to day browsing? What are the most common use cases? it seems like it lacks many modern software, latest software for download is made in 2012?
If you are looking at browsing then you should not care about the OS only what web browser you are using on the OS. And the current cutting edge RISC OS web browser is not likely to be up to your standards (NetSurf).

RISC OS is up to date as an OS, and yes it has been around for a long time. Just like Windows NT (which 10 is based on) has been around since it was called Microsoft OS/2 in the late 1980's, though is updated, or Linux has been around since the early 1990's, though is still updated.

If you are only worried about browsing then why do you care what OS you use?

I use RISC OS as my main OS, rarely ever using others. There are a few things I still have to do on other OS's, though I am also working toward having the programs on RISC OS to do the things that I currently need to do on other systems.
26-Bit R15 to 32-bit. 16-bit addressing to 24-bit. ARM and 65xx two CPU's that continue on, and are better than ever. Assembly Language forever :) .

jahboater
Posts: 3027
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:38 pm

Re: RISC OS now under the Apache 2.0 Licence

Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:44 pm

I think the OS system calls provide graphics directly. Which is pretty cool.

But its mostly written in (old) assembler, so I speculate that its long term future is in doubt.

User avatar
DavidS
Posts: 3141
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:39 am
Location: USA
Contact: Website

Re: RISC OS now under the Apache 2.0 Licence

Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:07 pm

jahboater wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:44 pm
I think the OS system calls provide graphics directly. Which is pretty cool.

But its mostly written in (old) assembler, so I speculate that its long term future is in doubt.
Yes it is written largely in assembler. This is not a problem for its future, so long as we have ARM CPU's capable of running in 32 bit modes. Now if they ever decide to go purely 64-bit this could be an issue, then it will be time to look to open source hardware, something along the lines of Amber Core with a full 32 bit R15.

Though the ARM has been becoming more popular, so the probability of losing the ability to run RISC OS is not likely.

Also remember that even many of the new stuff is written in assembly, this is a good thing. The future of the OS is prety well assured.
26-Bit R15 to 32-bit. 16-bit addressing to 24-bit. ARM and 65xx two CPU's that continue on, and are better than ever. Assembly Language forever :) .

jahboater
Posts: 3027
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:38 pm

Re: RISC OS now under the Apache 2.0 Licence

Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:11 pm

DavidS wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:07 pm
Yes it is written largely in assembler. This is not a problem for its future, so long as we have ARM CPU's capable of running in 32 bit modes. Now if they ever decide to go purely 64-bit this could be an issue,
The recent ARM cpu's (such as the Cortex-A76) are 64-bit only.
However, RISC OS is fast and doesn't need anything that powerful I think!

User avatar
DavidS
Posts: 3141
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:39 am
Location: USA
Contact: Website

Re: RISC OS now under the Apache 2.0 Licence

Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:37 pm

jahboater wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:11 pm
DavidS wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:07 pm
Yes it is written largely in assembler. This is not a problem for its future, so long as we have ARM CPU's capable of running in 32 bit modes. Now if they ever decide to go purely 64-bit this could be an issue,
The recent ARM cpu's (such as the Cortex-A76) are 64-bit only.
However, RISC OS is fast and doesn't need anything that powerful I think!
OK this puts me a bit behind. I thought they were still ARMv8 which last I read requires 32-bit support. Though it does not make any sence to go pure 64-bit with any CPU, this seems like a significant issue, as more applications would benifit from 32 bit registers than 64-bit. And memory capacity is not an issue, there have been PMMU extensions allowing a 32 bit ARM to access more than 4GB for a long time.
26-Bit R15 to 32-bit. 16-bit addressing to 24-bit. ARM and 65xx two CPU's that continue on, and are better than ever. Assembly Language forever :) .

jahboater
Posts: 3027
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:38 pm

Re: RISC OS now under the Apache 2.0 Licence

Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:14 pm

DavidS wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:37 pm
OK this puts me a bit behind. I thought they were still ARMv8 which last I read requires 32-bit support. Though it does not make any sence to go pure 64-bit with any CPU, this seems like a significant issue, as more applications would benifit from 32 bit registers than 64-bit. And memory capacity is not an issue, there have been PMMU extensions allowing a 32 bit ARM to access more than 4GB for a long time.
Actually the ARM A76 must have a 64-bit OS kernel, but I think it can still run 32-bit user programs.
You are right it is still ARMv8 but with extensions.

User avatar
bensimmo
Posts: 3309
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:02 pm
Location: East Yorkshire

Re: RISC OS now under the Apache 2.0 Licence

Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:04 pm

They are 64bit only* as the major OS's (iOS and Android) have gone 64bit only.
So out with the old and in with the leaner new was the idea. A cleanup iirc.
Though I'm sure you'll have a good read and find out the proper reasons.


*kernel as above https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/3 ... ortex_a76/

hippy
Posts: 3881
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: RISC OS now under the Apache 2.0 Licence

Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:37 pm

n67 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:32 pm
It's the sort of thing that is well-liked by the sort of people who like this sort of thing.
I think that's a pretty good synopsis and probably applies to anything which isn't considered ubiquitous or mainstream.

I have nothing against RISCOS, but never used any RISCOS based computers. I used a BBC micro but couldn't afford any home computer and then jumped on board a 286 when I could. I do have some Bush IBX "Internet TV" boxes (Pace?) which use RISCOS which I tinkered with.

I loaded RISCOS when the Pi first came out, probably through QEMU under Windows to be honest, and it looked good enough to me. A little old-fashioned but then I still use XP and 98 and the first thing I do is enable Classic Mode so that doesn't really worry me, is best IMO.

The problem I had was that it was 'all very different' to what I was used to. That meant having to invest time and effort to use it, and I couldn't really see the point. I imagine it's different for those who have used RISCOS, grew up with it, or just want to launch apps it provides, but I felt it was a better bet to go the Linux route which I did have some limited experience with and was less of a niche venture.

I might fire it up again when I have some idle time. My quest to run a full-Python Pi-based Application Engine is ongoing and RISCOS might be an option. I don't care about video acceleration but if RISCOS doesn't offer WiFi support that would limit its appeal.

I think we could do with a 'getting started with RISCOS for people who don't have a clue' intro, perhaps in MagPi or elsewhere. I found there to be dearth of easily accessible guidance when I last looked. It seemed a steep learning curve, and mostly on one's own.

User avatar
DavidS
Posts: 3141
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:39 am
Location: USA
Contact: Website

Re: RISC OS now under the Apache 2.0 Licence

Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:15 pm

It is true that RISC OS does not have WiFi support at present (well I seem to remember a WiFi stack for I think it was the IYONIX computer, though that would be useless for the newer stuff.
26-Bit R15 to 32-bit. 16-bit addressing to 24-bit. ARM and 65xx two CPU's that continue on, and are better than ever. Assembly Language forever :) .

hippy
Posts: 3881
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: RISC OS now under the Apache 2.0 Licence

Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:24 pm

Question : Does RISCOS still require a three-button mouse ?

Everything I've found with a quick surf around to get up to speed suggests it does. Are such mice even available these day with USB interfaces ? Is it even worth going to the effort of installing it of one hasn't such a mouse ?

User avatar
DavidS
Posts: 3141
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:39 am
Location: USA
Contact: Website

Re: RISC OS now under the Apache 2.0 Licence

Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:32 pm

hippy wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:24 pm
Question : Does RISCOS still require a three-button mouse ?

Everything I've found with a quick surf around to get up to speed suggests it does. Are such mice even available these day with USB interfaces ? Is it even worth going to the effort of installing it of one hasn't such a mouse ?
Yes it requires a 3 button mouse. And yes most modern USB options are 3 button (the middle button is hidden under the scroll wheel, if you push down on the scroll wheel and here a click you have a 3 button mouse).

The middle button is the most important in RISC OS as it is the menu button, used for all menus.
26-Bit R15 to 32-bit. 16-bit addressing to 24-bit. ARM and 65xx two CPU's that continue on, and are better than ever. Assembly Language forever :) .

User avatar
chocolate
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:40 am

Re: RISC OS now under the Apache 2.0 Licence

Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:36 pm

hippy wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:24 pm
Question : Does RISCOS still require a three-button mouse ?

Everything I've found with a quick surf around to get up to speed suggests it does. Are such mice even available these day with USB interfaces ? Is it even worth going to the effort of installing it of one hasn't such a mouse ?
You can use a mouse wheel as a button. I think most USB mice should work.
New RISC OS user.

DarkPlatinum
Posts: 403
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:30 pm
Contact: Website

Re: RISC OS now under the Apache 2.0 Licence

Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:50 pm

DavidS wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:17 pm
DarkPlatinum wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:54 pm
ShiftPlusOne wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:30 pm


I don't think so, but I haven't checked. That's not what it's for.


Hardly any.
What are its uses? What can you do with it.
RISC OS is a very different Desktop computer Operating System, that was specifically written for the first ARM based computers originally. It is NOT a unix like system.

RISC OS is usable for programming, desktop publishing/ word processing, graphics editing, video editing, simulation, some gaming, browsing the web (without JS or video), and just about anything else so long as there is a program to do the job.

An OS does not provide the ability to do the things, it is the programs running on the OS, RISC OS is a bit behind in support for some things, especially in the area of the web (lacking a good HTML5 browser, the good browser has limited Java Script support, and NO support for embeded videos in web pages.).

RISC OS is a fast small OS that is native to ARM based systems, it does not yet have support for much graphics acceleration with VideoCoreIV GPU. Though it does quite well otherwise, and there are even a couple o games that do use VideoCoreIV acceleration on the RPi series of SBC's.

Though if you are accustomed to Amiga/Macintosh/Unix X Desktop/ ST/Windows/BeOS style GUI's you will find that all those others may as well be identical twins when you see how different using RISC OS is. RISC OS is easy to use, it is just quite a bit different from the others, in the way things are done (in my opinion easier than any of the others, though if you are accustomed to the others there will be a learning curve).
You said video editing, how well does that perform on a Pi? What about screen recording?
1 * Raspberry Pi Zero W, 1 * Raspberry Pi 2, 1 * Raspberry Pi 3 1 * Raspberry Pi 3B + :mrgreen:

hippy
Posts: 3881
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: RISC OS now under the Apache 2.0 Licence

Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:09 am

DavidS wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:32 pm
(the middle button is hidden under the scroll wheel
chocolate wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:36 pm
You can use a mouse wheel as a button. I think most USB mice should work.
I rarely use the scroll wheel so had forgotten all about that button. And, yes, it does work. Many thanks. Though I'm sure that's going to drive me nuts! Maybe it's time to get down to Poundland and rewire a mouse.

But I must say I'm impressed. Quick booting, very responsive on a 3B, I can read my web pages served by other PC's and access t'internet. I quite like the GUI. If I can figure out how to do what I want, and if it can do it, you might have won a convert.

User avatar
chocolate
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:40 am

Re: RISC OS now under the Apache 2.0 Licence

Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:33 am

hippy wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:09 am
But I must say I'm impressed. Quick booting, very responsive on a 3B, I can read my web pages served by other PC's and access t'internet. I quite like the GUI. If I can figure out how to do what I want, and if it can do it, you might have won a convert.
It is great for retro gaming. That is what I use the OS for, but you can do more.
New RISC OS user.

Return to “RISCOS”