sdjf
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Help debug: ssh freezes, ethernet + usb go down [NOT SOLVED]

Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:33 pm

I am not sure how to debug this. It is the first time I have been able to take my Pi online in nearly 2 months, so not sure what software update would be the culprit. But shortly after I get dialup going with the Pi's usb modem, my ssh session freezes and ethernet and usb both appear to go down. There is no gateway, it is a direct connection of the Pi to it's own usb modem that takes it to the internet.

This is happening with two Arch systems, one is the May image, kernel 3.6.11-11, fully updated offline with Pacman -Su on May 26 and has netctl 1.0-1, the other is with the January image updated to kernel 3.6.11-9 and has netctl 0.8-1. So the problem is from before the big move of /usr/bin /sbin and all that. (I do not want to fully update until the dust settles with upgrades as my main machine is on dialup and the download time is too intense.)

Also note that my Pi could go online in March or April without issue before installing netctl, but not after. So it looks like netctl or my netctl profile is related.

All uncommented lines in file: /etc/netctl/ethernet-static

Code: Select all

Description='A basic static ethernet connection'
Interface=eth0
Connection=ethernet
IP=static
Address=('192.168.xxx.x/24')
I have no monitor, am running headless. And the keyboard also gets dropped, so have no way to safely shutdown and reboot.

When I say ethernet goes down, I mean that my ssh session freezes and when I then close my ssh console and try to ssh back in over ethernet, there is "No route to host". I issue the normal ifconfig that usually gets me in, but there is no ethernet to connect with on the Pi end, even though I do see the Pi's LINK light is on.

When I say USB goes down, I mean that I cannot get my usb keyboard to be recognized (so I cannot enter commands or do ctl-alt-del to reboot). And the usb network connection to my zaurus sl5500 goes down as well. When I try to get back in via ssh over usb, get

ssh: connect to address 192.168.xxx.xx port 22: Network is unreachable

The first time this happened on the 3.6.11-9 kernel, ACT light on Pi was on solid for 15 minutes while my ssh session was frozen, and I pulled the power plug. When I checked the logs, the last entries were at the point the ssh session froze, there were no entries during the ensuing 15 minute period during which the time ssh session was frozen, none until after I pulled the plug and restarted the system. But this was with loglevel=2 on one card, and no loglevel declared in cmdline.txt on the other one.

I have a new powered hub with 2.6 mA adapter so can take the Pi online and simultaneously use my USB speakers, so this could be because of issues with the hub except I have an old Arch SD card with the Sept 2012 soft float image on it, and I was able to go online successfully with it for over a half hour with the identical hardware, after these other events.

So, I will set loglevel=6 on both the hard float cards as the logs at loglevel=2 are useless for debugging. And I will test TP1-TP2 before and after the events, just in case power is an issue. But is there anything else I should do or run that can be done before the session freezes, to debug this?

I do not think this is SD card corruption. I immediately ran fsck on both SD cards after the events, and while the journals needed to be restored because of yanking power without a safe shutdown, no other errors were found.

Pi does connect to internet according to logs that look like:

Code: Select all

Jun  8 22:03:34 alarmpi pppd[6533]: Cannot determine ethernet address for proxy ARP
Jun  8 22:03:34 alarmpi pppd[6533]: local  IP address 66.81.xx.xx
Jun  8 22:03:34 alarmpi pppd[6533]: remote IP address 69.19.xx.xx
Jun  8 22:03:34 alarmpi pppd[6533]: primary   DNS address 64.136.xx.xx
Jun  8 22:03:34 alarmpi pppd[6533]: secondary DNS address 64.136.xx.xx
Jun  8 22:03:34 alarmpi pppd[6533]: Script /etc/ppp/ip-up started (pid 6561)
Jun  8 22:03:35 alarmpi pppd[6533]: Script /etc/ppp/ip-up finished (pid 6561), status = 0x0
Jun  8 22:04:03 alarmpi pppd[6533]: sent [LCP EchoReq id=0x1 magic=0xe279f241]
Jun  8 22:04:04 alarmpi pppd[6533]: rcvd [LCP EchoRep id=0x1 magic=0x0]  
Would starting ppp with strace work for debugging? I normally issue pppon and that finishes before the Pi actually gets online. And I am thinking it more likely to be elsewhere in the system, not anything triggered by ppp itself, but of course could be wrong.
Last edited by sdjf on Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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sdjf
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Re: After ppp up, ssh freezes, ethernet and usb go down

Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:57 pm

I am online now with my Pi using the May image via ssh through my eth0 connection, so am not sure what went wrong before on both systems.

The only difference is that I am running pppd via strace and have loglevel=6, but this is looking like either a fluke, or I am not sure what is going on.

Did remove the ntpd multiuser service file on this image before inserting it back into pi an running it. And modem is plugged into exact same port in the hub as it was before. Problem may have just been a temporary issue, usb and ethernet seem fine right now. Won't know until next event what went wrong, if it happens again.
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sdjf
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Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:23 am

Well, was online quite a while, this time in midori over vnc, when the page I wanted to visit stopped loading and when I checked, I saw that ethernet and usb were totally gone. Could not even use my usb keyboard.

I was so flummoxed that I did not write down the exact time, but can gauge from my logs. This time, I was ready. I had started pppd with strace, so have that log, but I think pppd is not the culprit.

I was also so rattled I could not get my multimeter to work and had trouble getting the probes in the right holes, but later on, was able to test and now am suspicious that maybe trouble could be my Pi's power supply? With everything plugged in, the reading between TP1-TP2 dips to 4.77 at the lowest. That should be okay, but will power go down further when the Pi is doing a lot of memory intense stuff?

I also had set loglevel to 6 so that means I have voluminous logs, but I am not sure what to look for. One very odd thing, though, is that even though pppd is supposed to be recording lcp requests and replies every 30 seconds, there is a 12 minute period during which there is no pppd logging, between 20:22 and 20:34. The Hangup is when I unplugged the modem and hub 6 minutes after that.

Code: Select all

Jun 13 20:22:57 alarmpi pppd[7285]: sent [LCP EchoReq id=0x19 magic=0x5a458747]
Jun 13 20:22:59 alarmpi pppd[7285]: rcvd [LCP EchoRep id=0x19 magic=0x0]
Jun 13 20:34:16 alarmpi pppd[7285]: sent [LCP EchoReq id=0x1a magic=0x5a458747]
Jun 13 20:40:36 alarmpi pppd[7285]: Hangup (SIGHUP) 
/var/log/everything.log shows a lot of stuff I do not understand during this period of time. Apparently the system interjected a bunch of diagnostics that I guess I should post somewhere, too long to put all of them into a post. Then after these diagnostics at 20:40, everything log shows the reply to the 20:34 lcp request!

Here are the first lines that got interjected:

Code: Select all

Jun 13 20:40:27 alarmpi kernel: [44504.211739]
121856 pages of RAM
Jun 13 20:40:27 alarmpi kernel: [44504.223557]
69457 free pages
Jun 13 20:40:27 alarmpi kernel: [44504.234445]
3645 reserved pages
Jun 13 20:40:27 alarmpi kernel: [44504.246033]
2648 slab pages
Jun 13 20:40:27 alarmpi kernel: [44504.256568]
31069 pages shared
Jun 13 20:40:27 alarmpi kernel: [44504.267894]
0 pages swap cached
Jun 13 20:40:27 alarmpi kernel: [44504.279663]
smsc95xx 1-1.1:1.0: eth0: kevent 2 may have been dropped
Jun 13 20:40:27 alarmpi kernel: [44504.301247]
kworker/0:0: page allocation failure: order:0,
mode:0x20
Jun 13 20:40:27 alarmpi kernel: [44504.322691]
[<c0013b84>] (unwind_backtrace+0x0/0xf0) from [<c00b4330>] (warn_alloc_failed+0xd0/0x118)
Jun 13 20:40:27 alarmpi kernel: [44504.354960]
[<c00b4330>] (warn_alloc_failed+0xd0/0x118) from [<c00b6a20>] (__alloc_pages_nodemask+0x53c/0x724)
Jun 13 20:40:44 alarmpi kernel: [44504.389709]
[<c00b6a20>] (__alloc_pages_nodemask+0x53c/0x724) from [<c049cf7c>] (__netdev_alloc_frag+0x90/0x118)  
Jun 13 20:40:44 alarmpi kernel: [44504.424992]
[<c049cf7c>] (__netdev_alloc_frag+0x90/0x118) from [<c04a1258>] (__netdev_alloc_skb+0x40/0xd0)Jun 13 20:40:44 alarmpi kernel: [44504.458714]
[<c04a1258>] (__netdev_alloc_skb+0x40/0xd0) from [<c03c6308>] (rx_submit+0x1c/0x1f0)
Jun 13 20:40:44 alarmpi kernel: [44504.489858]
[<c03c6308>] (rx_submit+0x1c/0x1f0) from [<c03c6518>] (rx_alloc_submit+0x3c/0x98)  
Is the page allocation failure message critical? The line before pins down when ethernet went down.

If anyone wants to see more, I can post here or elsewhere.

One good thing about this event, though, is I did not have to pull the power plug on the pi. I unplugged everything else from the pi, even ethernet, and somehow managed to eventaully get ethernet to come up from the hardware fiddling, so I did not have to reboot. It also looks like the pi did not reboot itself, as the logs do not have any Dec 31, 1969 entries during this period. That also is good news. Now if I could just prevent more of these hair raising events.
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pepedog
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Re: Help debugging: ssh freezes, ethernet and usb go down

Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:36 am

You may have run out of ram

sdjf
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Re: Help debugging: ssh freezes, ethernet and usb go down

Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:21 am

pepedog wrote:You may have run out of ram
Hmm, so how do I test for that and prevent it? Is it the memory on the Broadcom chip and shown in "free"? Or is it one of the entries in "df"?
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pepedog
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Re: Help debugging: ssh freezes, ethernet and usb go down

Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:29 am

free shows it.
Maybe edit /etc/sysctl.conf line vm.min_free_kbytes=65536 might help
Obviously swap is only advised on spinning media

sdjf
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Re: Help debugging: ssh freezes, ethernet and usb go down

Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:45 am

Okay, I think that is at something like just 32K right now.

Also am wondering if the Zaurus PDA which is ssh'ing in, might be running out of memory. Would the Pi back up data being sent into buffers if the PDA could not accept bytes being sent? May need bash scripts on both, logging status every so many seconds so can see state on both ends at point of the crash.

Which part of the output of free should I watch?

# free -h
total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 461M 218M 243M 0B 5.0M 46M
-/+ buffers/cache: 167M 294M
Swap: 0B 0B 0B

I know on my PDAs, I need to keep free buffer space high to keep them from crashing, and trick the memory into doing that by running a find for some file that does not exist (find / -name xxxxx) when monitoring script detects low buffer space.
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sdjf
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Re: Help debugging: ssh freezes, ethernet and usb go down

Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:15 pm

Okay, finally got a good new 2A usb hub and tried going online with my 3.6.11-9 Arch card. Had an earlier online session in the morning of about 75 minutes. But tried going back online about 20 minutes later and everything froze again - all ethernet, all usb, nothing would respond.

I had changed settings as pepedog suggested. Also loglevel is now 6, lots of detail. You can see below that my login was accepted, but then if you look at the third from the bottom line, writing to the log ceases. The line is cut off and shows Dec 31 when I finally gave up and unplugged all devices and the Pi reset itself and rebooted.

Code: Select all

Jun 30 09:17:35 alarmpi pppd[766]: sent [PAP AuthReq id=0x2 user="xxxx@xxxxxxx" password=<hidden>]
Jun 30 09:17:36 alarmpi pppd[766]: rcvd [PAP AuthAck id=0x2 ""]
Jun 30 09:17:36 alarmpi pppd[766]: PAP authentication succeeded
Jun 30 09:17:36 alarmpi pppd[766]: sent [CCP ConfReq id=0x1 <deflate 15> <deflate(old#) 15> <bsd v1 15>]
Jun 30 09:17:36 alarmpi pppd[766]: sent [IPCP ConfReq id=0x1 <compress VJ 0f 01> <addr 0.0.0.0> <ms-dns1 0.0.0.0> <ms-dns2 0.0.0.0>]
Jun 30 09:17:36 alarmpi pppd[766]: rcvd [IPCP ConfReq id=0x1 <compress VJ 0f 01> <addr xx.xx.xx.xx>]
Jun 30 09:17:36 alarmpi pppd[76Dec 31 16:00:33
alarmpi systemd[1]: Started Apply Kernel Variables.
Dec 31 16:00:33 alarmpi systemd[1]: Started udev Kernel Device Manager.
Dec 31 16:00:33 alarmpi systemd[1]: Mounted POSIX Message Queue File System.
What is interesting, though, is there is more detail in another log that never made it into the everything.log, about local, remote, primary and secondary IP addresses. Those normally also get written to everything.log. There is nothing to explain this in the errors.log. Rebooting would say if there were fs errors and there is nothing indicating anything of the sort, no suggestion to run e2fsck, although I will unmount and check the rootfs.

And I do not know where else to look, what can be causing all USB/Ethernet to lock up? The other thing I did not mention above is that the ACT light was on solid from the point shown in the log at 9:17:36 until the point 20 minutes later when I unplugged everything. How on earth would that light stay on when nothing was written? What was it writing? ACT light on solid when nothing is happening always scares me. A few minutes, okay, but twenty minutes after no activity when I sync frequently and I would think there should not have been any files needing finishing writing.

Yes, I know I should try with a newer kernel, I will when I can, but this still bugs me as it never happened when I was taking the Pi online before.
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sdjf
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Re: Help debugging: ssh freezes, ethernet + usb go down [SOL

Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:58 pm

Amazingly enough, this whole thing looks like it really was a hardware configuration problem. My 2 amp hub was piggy backed onto a 2 port hub that is plugged into the upper port on my Pi. I was using the other native USB port for my Zaurus PDA as the other port was not as reliable for that.

But I got another 2 Amp hub and while it was working for speakers, same things were happening, and memory devices were not reliable. So, decided to swap around what devices are in what ports.

And, plugging the new 7 port 2A hub directly into the Pi's bottom USB port, I have had absolutely no problems with the system freezing up at all.

My everything.log stopped recording pppd information last night, and I wondered if I had changed some setting that would make that happen, but couldn't find anything, and rebooting the Pi has fixed that problem.
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sdjf
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Re: Help debugging: ssh freezes, ethernet + usb go down [SOL

Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:08 pm

Hmm. This does not appear to be completely solved, after all. Not just a hardware configuration problem. Had another one of these events this morning...same configuration as my post a week ago when I said everything was working fine.

This morning was online, vnc and ssh both froze, even unplugging my hub and plugging my usb keyboard directly in to the Pi did not work, keyboard was not recognized. The only way to get out of this was to pull the power plug.

I am getting to think it might be worth hooking up something so I can have a safe on/off switch for when USB totally shuts down. I had usb sticks and an external SD card mounted when I had to pull the plug, no way to sync before a poweroff!

Only difference from post a week ago is software - was on older image, now am on May image as the older image will not boot. I have now changed the memory cache to ~64k, I had left it on ~32K the way the image came. But I doubt that is the issue. All logging of events to everything.log stopped at 9:09 am although my at jobs were able to continue to write to disk - I see a custom log entry at 9:17 am, I wonder why the pppd echo req/recv requests stopped getting logged but other stuff continued to get logged that did not involve usb.
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magic9418
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Re: Help debug: ssh freezes, ethernet + usb go down [NOT SOL

Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:59 am

I too have this exact problem...I am running Raspbian, fully updated, with only a Wifi adapter. After sshing into the pie, and leaving it for a few minutes it freezes. I hope there is a fix out there.

sdjf
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Re: Help debug: ssh freezes, ethernet + usb go down [NOT SOL

Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:40 am

Well, the question in my mind, is why this happens. Have you got any theories? Mind you, we are posting in the Arch forum, so mainstreamers are less likely to see and comment. I did do a search months ago, and there are scattered posts throughout the forum about Pi's freezing, it might be worth searching again to see if there is anything useful turning up to explain it, but I am too busy with other things right now.

It is less of an issue for me now, since my Pi does finally have it's own monitor, but there are times when the monitor is not on and I need to ssh in, so would still like to know what causes it.

EDIT: I spoke too soon, I had one of these "Pi freezes up" events without ssh being involved, this time, I can at least show something that might provide a clue:

Code: Select all

Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at virtual address 0000001c
pgd = c4268000
There are lots of google hits for the above, but I don't really know what that means or what we can do about it. Clearly, the usb driver is overloaded. I know when it happened tonight, my Pi was online in lxterminal, I was using the USB monitor, and the try was alerting me about some tasks needing doing, I think using the USB speakers.

But Pi froze right after that.
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Umberto1966
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Re: Help debug: ssh freezes, ethernet + usb go down [NOT SOL

Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:22 pm

I had the same trouble.
Making long story short, a bad network cable caused it.
Strange to say, everything else (ftp,http) was fine.

Hope this can help

Umberto

ilpiero
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Re: Help debug: ssh freezes, ethernet + usb go down [NOT SOL

Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:14 pm

I'm building a USB test machine, ant i'm facing the same problem, after some event, the ETH (and once also the USB) goes down.
To me it's an Hardware related issue, i manage to reproduce it several times but i still have to find the root cause.

sdjf
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Re: Help debug: ssh freezes, ethernet + usb go down [NOT SOL

Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:49 am

I no longer have the problem, not sure why. I suggest logging the output of several diagnostics regularly, looking for a pattern.

It may be that I have not had the problem for hardware reasons, but could also be because I noticed things froze up when certain conditions occurred that are not logged in the standard logs. For me, I have stopped Pi crashes by monitoring the output of the free command, and when the Used and Cached memory go above/below certain limits, have the monitoring script kill the highest memory eater.

This may or may not enter into the USB/Ethernet problem, but doing additional logging of output of various commands such as the "free" and "lsusb" commands might help you discover a pattern. I did read elsewhere it could be due to bad cables or erratic power supplies. As part of your diagnostics, you might also run a command that tells you how much power is getting used by various apps. I think I used powertop.

And make sure you have totally updated your system, they did some tweaking in the kernel to USB and it could be what is making a difference for me.
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ilpiero
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Re: Help debug: ssh freezes, ethernet + usb go down [NOT SOL

Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:04 pm

I have an idea of the operation that cause this problem to happen:
We have a custome PCB that is used to test USB Hubs, (very) basically we connect the HUB to the Pi and a memory to the HUB, then we do some reading and writing.
All of the connection/disconnection can be controlled programmatically with I2C commands, the PC B is self powered and does not drain anything from the Pi USB port.
If i disconnect the USB key from the HUB, and RIGHT AFTER, the HUB from the Pi, Ethernet is gone :o .
I should be able to reproduce it on different Pis

sdjf
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Re: Help debug: ssh freezes, ethernet + usb go down [NOT SOL

Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:29 am

What is a "USB Key"?? Do you mean keyboard?

Which model of Pi do you have? Are you talking software or hardware disconnects?

check your USB ports on the Pi. Mine are loose, and I found I had trouble if I jiggled the cables. Also look into power surge issues.

I know some of these events for me were getting triggered when a device that the Pi expected to find, disappeared (shut itself off, a PDA attached via USB), and the Pi kept trying to find it. It would take some digging to find old, appropriate logs, I think I posted some typical output from mine here somewhere from when this was happening.
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Re: Help debug: ssh freezes, ethernet + usb go down [NOT SOL

Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:21 am

sdjf wrote:What is a "USB Key"?? Do you mean keyboard?
It's a USB memory stick aka USB pen drive aka USB flash drive aka USB portable storage device.
Note: Any requirement to use a crystal ball or mind reading will result in me ignoring your question.

Criticising any questions is banned on this forum.

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.
All non-medical doctors are on my foes list.

ilpiero
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Re: Help debug: ssh freezes, ethernet + usb go down [NOT SOL

Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:02 pm

I meant, Usb memory and I talk about hardware disconnects.
Raspberry pi model b+
1) Connect memory to an usb hub and usb hub to the pi.
2) Disconnect the usb drive
3) Right after disconnect the Hub (very quickly... I do it with subsequential instructions in a script)
4) Ethernet goes down

I tried the procedure with different Pi's and I'm able to reproduce the describe behaviour.

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DougieLawson
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Re: Help debug: ssh freezes, ethernet + usb go down [NOT SOL

Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:08 pm

In that case you need to use a powered USB hub because your USB devices are using too much current.

If you have a Raspberry Pi B+ you need to set the option in /boot/config.txt that allows the USB devices to use 1.2A rather than 600mA.

Code: Select all

max_usb_current=1
Note: Any requirement to use a crystal ball or mind reading will result in me ignoring your question.

Criticising any questions is banned on this forum.

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.
All non-medical doctors are on my foes list.

ilpiero
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Re: Help debug: ssh freezes, ethernet + usb go down [NOT SOL

Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:50 am

Thanks but this is not the case for sure.
The power line and the data line are separated, the PI is not powering anything.
[EDIT] also, as further confirmation, this happens when i DISCONNECT the devices.

sdjf
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Re: Help debug: ssh freezes, ethernet + usb go down [NOT SOL

Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:36 pm

When you say disconnect, you mean without touching any hardware, using software? I ask because I used to have everything go down when I would pull out a USB device physically, either because of a power surge or because I would accidentally jiggle a usb connector. On my Pi, the connectors are loose, it was an early one and the connectors were faulty, so have to be very, very careful not to jiggle anything.

Are you saying you do not physically touch ANY hardware at all when you disconnect the device(s)?

If so, what is the software that you use to accomplish the disconnection? It may need debugging.
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ilpiero
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Re: Help debug: ssh freezes, ethernet + usb go down [NOT SOL

Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:05 am

Read my first post. This is done by driving an usb switch IC (TS3USB30E) i basically can disconnect by turnig off the D+ / D- lines
Thanks

MadDenker
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Re: Help debug: ssh freezes, ethernet + usb go down [NOT SOL

Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:00 pm

Is this issue still unresolved?

I am having a similar issue with my Raspberry Pi Zero (v1.2) I just bought in May. It is running headless, no monitor, just remote via putty, using a USB to ethernet adapter (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009X ... UTF8&psc=1). I have a different adapter, but haven't tried it yet (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00RM ... UTF8&psc=1).

I am running the current rasbian jessie version 8. I recently bought a case with a heatsink, which did not resolve the problem. I tried all of the suggestions here, memory limits, higher amp power supply, to no avail. I initially saw freezeups using FTP, when it would freeze during the download of files. I noticed that many of the files transferred were incomplete or corrupted, and received "blank rows" errors during transfers. The Zero also freezes when used as an apache2 web server, with large background files (~500kb) failing to load or freezing the Zero.

It is very easy to get my Zero to freeze. Once I logged in via putty and just ran ls. It froze before the directory's contents were displayed. That was it. Sometimes it freezes before I can enter my password on login. Sometimes it works well for many minutes of commands before freezing. Is everyone else's Zero this useless?

Any help would be appreciated.

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Re: Help debug: ssh freezes, ethernet + usb go down [NOT SOL

Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:13 pm

MadDenker wrote:It is very easy to get my Zero to freeze. Once I logged in via putty and just ran ls. It froze before the directory's contents were displayed. That was it. Sometimes it freezes before I can enter my password on login. Sometimes it works well for many minutes of commands before freezing. Is everyone else's Zero this useless?
That's silly, most people aren't experiencing this effect. Can you run the zero without the ethernet and with a head so you can see what is going on? If so, does it work? If not, you'd have to set up some sort of script that did something automatically on boot, do this with the sdcard in another machine. Does it blow up without any network connection? What is it doing when it blows up with an ethernet connection?

One reason for lock ups and troubles when you have an ethernet connection is if there are two devices with the same something on the network. Do they have the same mac or ip or name? This is easy to do with the name since the pi has a default that is the same for each pi unless you change it. It's easy to do with the ip if you use static ip addresses and just give two boxes the same one. Do you have two pies with the same name, the same IP? It's harder with the mac address but it is possible because you could be setting that somehow different from its default known to be different value. Fix all that if it's an issue, are you still having the lock ups?

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