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bensimmo
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Flowchart software (for school age coding)

Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:30 pm

Any recommendations for simple flowcharting software/website I can use.

Just simple coding, senior (11-16) or younger even school level stuff, for school or clubs.

Just need the basic drag and drop part and easy entry

Windows 10 and possibly RaspberryPi OS will be the computers used.

thankyou.

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pasdechance
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Re: Flowchart software (for school age coding)

Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:13 pm

I think dia is in the repos. With LibreOffice draw you can also make flowcharts. And online they can use Lucidcharts (I think that's what it is called).

Or go oldschool and get some of these.
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BMS Doug
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Re: Flowchart software (for school age coding)

Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:57 pm

bensimmo wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:30 pm
Any recommendations for simple flowcharting software/website I can use.

Just simple coding, senior (11-16) or younger even school level stuff, for school or clubs.

Just need the basic drag and drop part and easy entry

Windows 10 and possibly RaspberryPi OS will be the computers used.

thankyou.
When you say flowcharting software...


Do you mean software for creating flowcharts?

My interpretation of your post was different from that.

Your post read to me like you meant a simple coding software that you drag and drop blocks of code into and it follows the process. That's Scratch. Free, available for Windoze and Linux (and Raspberry Pi OS).
Scratch for the Pi is able to interface with the GPIO pins.

My apologies if I have misunderstood your requirements.
Doug.
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ejolson
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Re: Flowchart software (for school age coding)

Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:28 pm

bensimmo wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:30 pm
Any recommendations for simple flowcharting software/website I can use.

Just simple coding, senior (11-16) or younger even school level stuff, for school or clubs.

Just need the basic drag and drop part and easy entry

Windows 10 and possibly RaspberryPi OS will be the computers used.

thankyou.
If the goal is to create documentation about how something works, it's amazing how easy the original graphviz program developed at Bell Labs is to use.

As a teacher there is sometimes a trade-off between software that wears well with continued use versus a simple application too limited to be of use by students who actually master what they were interested in learning.

My belief is that a computerized flowchart tool is most useful if
  • It allows easy revision and tracking of changes using standard version control software such as Git.
    • The input and output of the software can be controlled by another program.
      • It produces publication-quality output that can automatically be embedded into other documents.
      In my opinion any software that doesn't meet the above requirements is a waste of time, particularly for a beginner who needs to invest their efforts wisely to catch up with those who have experience. In particular, rather than learning a limited program now, it might be better to focus on software that has a plausible future use and stick with paper, a stencil and drafting pencil for the flowcharts.
      Last edited by ejolson on Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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      bensimmo
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      Re: Flowchart software (for school age coding)

      Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:05 pm

      BMS Doug wrote:
      Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:57 pm
      bensimmo wrote:
      Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:30 pm
      Any recommendations for simple flowcharting software/website I can use.

      Just simple coding, senior (11-16) or younger even school level stuff, for school or clubs.

      Just need the basic drag and drop part and easy entry

      Windows 10 and possibly RaspberryPi OS will be the computers used.

      thankyou.
      When you say flowcharting software...


      Do you mean software for creating flowcharts?

      My interpretation of your post was different from that.

      Your post read to me like you meant a simple coding software that you drag and drop blocks of code into and it follows the process. That's Scratch. Free, available for Windoze and Linux (and Raspberry Pi OS).
      Scratch for the Pi is able to interface with the GPIO pins.

      My apologies if I have misunderstood your requirements.
      Ah, I mean the good old stencils as posted above.
      Just drag and drop onto a sheet, add a few links, double click in the box and type some text.

      I remember I used Visio a long long time back, a bit of over kill back then.
      I could do it in word or similar too, now that I've been reminded, but thought I would ask see if there is a good simple easy to use software/website.

      Thanks all. I'll check some of them out.

      makerbob
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      Re: Flowchart software (for school age coding)

      Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:52 am

      Diagrams.net is my favourite choice for flowcharts. https://app.diagrams.net/

      It's all drag and drop making it simple to use but it has plenty of power too. Sample flowchart attached.
      Attachments
      Sample-Flowchart.png
      Sample-Flowchart.png (25.77 KiB) Viewed 2914 times

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      jonwitts
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      Re: Flowchart software (for school age coding)

      Tue May 18, 2021 9:24 pm

      bensimmo wrote:
      Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:30 pm
      Any recommendations for simple flowcharting software/website I can use.

      Just simple coding, senior (11-16) or younger even school level stuff, for school or clubs.

      Just need the basic drag and drop part and easy entry

      Windows 10 and possibly RaspberryPi OS will be the computers used.

      thankyou.
      Hi Ben,

      I have just been looking at this myself too. I think the easiest thing that is stock-Raspbian is probably LibreOffice Draw... Cross platform and Open Source too, so could be installed on Windows too.

      Jon

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      bensimmo
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      Re: Flowchart software (for school age coding)

      Wed May 19, 2021 6:36 am

      I ended up using diagrams.net, used it through the NCCE teachcomputing.org certification and other related cpd on futurelearn. Worked well and sharing was easy. Just a bit faffy on the logginging in to Google sometimes. It was easy to pick up and some styling would add extra layer for no reason.
      But easy to sort out.

      I actually haven't looked at LibreOffice Draw lately, must give it a go.

      For what should be a simple stencil style drag n drop, draw a link and type some text, they used to have them back when I did computer studies. Everything seems over complicated now.

      Edit: to add the s
      Last edited by bensimmo on Fri May 28, 2021 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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      jonwitts
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      Re: Flowchart software (for school age coding)

      Wed May 26, 2021 12:19 pm

      I have installed Dia on our Raspberry Pis; it doesn't look like it has been updated in a while; but then again how many updates does a flow chart editor need? :D

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      SonoraTechnical
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      Re: Flowchart software (for school age coding)

      Fri May 28, 2021 8:26 pm

      bensimmo wrote:
      Wed May 19, 2021 6:36 am
      I ended up using diagram.net, used it through the NCCE teachcomputing.org certification and other related cpd on futurelearn. Worked well and sharing was easy.
      Just a slight correction... It's diagrams.net Important to add the s... diagram.net takes you to diagram.es which is a provider of Accounting Software near Valencia Spain (I speak spanish so I quickly determined this wasn't the product you were recommending)... ;)

      That said.. Thank you for the link... It's a perfect way to Visualize and Document the 'Flows' that I'm doing in NodeRED on my RaspberryPi... NodeRED reads easy, but allot of times you end up with extensive javascript that calls variables in function nodes so you don't always see the decision tree logic... I'll give Diagrams.net a try for documenting.
      learning never stops...

      Ronin Bailey
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      Re: Flowchart software (for school age coding)

      Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:28 am

      makerbob wrote:
      Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:52 am
      Diagrams.net is my favourite choice for flowcharts. https://app.diagrams.net/

      It's all drag and drop making it simple to use but it has plenty of power too. Sample flowchart attached.
      Great choice. Thank you very much for your advice, it will really help me in my teaching practice at school, as this software is pretty high quality. I plan to enter the university this year for one more specialty. For this I need to write a personal statement. I turned to the company https://writix.co.uk/personal-statement-help, which is professionally engaged in writing this type of work and I hope that everything will work out for me.
      Last edited by Ronin Bailey on Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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      DougieLawson
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      Re: Flowchart software (for school age coding)

      Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:28 pm

      In more than forty years of computer programming I have yet to find any use for a drawn flowchart. They aren't used, they aren't useful, it's better to write a solid design spec (which can be included in source for the automatic documentation stuff that's used today).

      For a more definitive opinion, I'd suggest you read Fred Brooks comments on flowcharting in The Mythical Man Month.
      Partially quoted here: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Fred_Brooks

      http://www.cesarkallas.net/arquivos/liv ... dition.pdf Chapter 16.
      Any language using left-hand whitespace for syntax is ridiculous

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      SonoraTechnical
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      Re: Flowchart software (for school age coding)

      Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:35 am

      DougieLawson wrote:
      Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:28 pm
      In more than forty years of computer programming I have yet to find any use for a drawn flowchart. They aren't used, they aren't useful, it's better to write a solid design spec (which can be included in source for the automatic documentation stuff that's used today).
      Thank you for the anecdote. My mileage differs, as may that of others.

      Flowcharts are a good 'implementation agnostic' gateway to programing using IEC-61131 function block programming in a variety of vendor products. The also help folks to understand complex workflows. Several of my large clients use flow charts to document all of their process maps and work instructions for their ISO-9001 and ISO-14000 certification efforts.

      I have used function block diagrams as an alternative to ladder logic diagrams in a few Rockwell Automation Control Logix and Compact Logix projects. Lots of vendors have used Function Block Programming (Opto22 Ultimate and PAC controllers, Allen Bradley Servo Force, Kinetix, other stepper motor control software) and a flow chart is often a good way to get user input to craft a good functional spec before beginning a project or set of instructions before tackling a particular problem. I'll even do a small flow chart even before tackling a particularly difficult Transact-SQL stored procedure in SQL or a fun little Node-RED project on a PI.

      Anyway, thank you for the references. I'll look at a few of them.
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