meatballs
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Academies can employ unqualified teachers

Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:13 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19017544

This is a positive step for computer science education imo, as schools are much more likely to recruit people wishing for a career change but wouldn't put themselves/fund themselves through the year PGCE. Might get redundancies, or retirees but in the last cast you are probably just shortening your lifespan! :D

However, I'm afraid that the majority of heads will just use this to pay people the minimum unqualified teacher salary, which is about £15kpa - £6k less than for a qualified teacher, and not attempt to recruit people with 'great knowledge and new skills'. For this to work these recruits need to be on the same payscale as qualified teachers so heads dont abuse it. If they are truly great this shouldn't be a problem (apart from perhaps pissing off the teaching unions who will change their argument).

clivef
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Re: Academies can employ unqualified teachers

Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:38 am

meatballs wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19017544
... If they are truly great this shouldn't be a problem
Apart from the fact that they haven't demonstrated that they meet any of the standards (33 - count 'em!) as required by the Education Act to teach young people. The best subject knowledge in the world is nothing without pedagogy. (And a sense of humour :D)

That's not to say that they might not turn out to be outstanding teachers (I know several great teachers who do not have QTS, and independents seem to do alright out of it :)), but by this logic why not pay PCSOs the same as full police officers? They may know loads about the law. Or pay truly great auxiliary nurses the same as nurses? And what about those of us who are truly great and qualified? Should we get more? ;)

meatballs
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Re: Academies can employ unqualified teachers

Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:31 pm

I expect 95% of teachers couldn't name one of the 33 standards or define one off the bat. They might be able to vaguely grope at something like 'has high expectations'...

The other 5% of teachers are probably actively mentoring.

Plus the whole fact they are allowing unqualified teachers kinda negates the Education Act being a requirement :)

PCSOs and auxilliary nurses are brought in as a cost saving measure, to improve coverage but without the skills/powers of qualified officers/treatment options of qualified nurses (not sure about the last one tbh). They are accepted as a saving.

Unqualified teachers would have the same powers/job/role as qualified teachers.
The reasoning behind the unqualified teachers according to the article is to bring in people of a high standard, not as a cost saving measure.

And yes those people who are great and are judged as Outstanding or are working in more difficult roles (e.g. in inner cities with more challenging catchments) should get paid more. Its the same in industry and based on merit. Currently it doesn't matter how hard you work as a teacher until you hit threshold.

clivef
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Re: Academies can employ unqualified teachers

Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:13 pm

meatballs wrote:I expect 95% of teachers couldn't name one of the 33 standards or define one off the bat. They might be able to vaguely grope at something like 'has high expectations'...
It's lucky then that you get QTS for meeting these standards, not for being able to reel them off when asked ;). I'm a very good driver but I couldn't tell you what section of the Highway Code deals with stopping distances, never mind quote them off the bat. But I've never ran into anything in 30 years of driving :). To milk the analogy: knowing the Road Traffic Act inside and out does not make you a good driver and you certainly shouldn't be given a job as a police motorcyclist just on that basis.
Currently it doesn't matter how hard you work as a teacher until you hit threshold.
Sadly, it doesn't much matter then either. Having gone into teaching from industry many years ago, the lack of accountability and the non-meritorious routes available to TLR points and higher management still shocks me. It's one of education's dirty little secrets actually.

This is all apropos of nothing though really: state schools have always employed unqualified teachers. As long as they call them "instructors" and pretend that it is a short term stop-gap it's all good :).

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DexOS
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Re: Academies can employ unqualified teachers

Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:51 pm

I think it could be a good thing, i mean my daughters IT teacher had not heard of linux.
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Grumpy Mike
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Re: Academies can employ unqualified teachers

Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:47 pm

Odd that, I taught for 20 years in a University without any teaching qualifications at all. I did teach some teachers who were then qualified, where is the sense in that.

The teaching qualifications a person holds is in inverse proportion to the quality of the teacher.

One of my students said that her head of science told a class "in space there is no gravity" and she said that she could not bring herself to correct him.

TimGUK
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Re: Academies can employ unqualified teachers

Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:06 pm

As someone with 30 years in industry (IT consultancy) who has just moved into teaching science I would encourage anyone of thinking of doing it to take the plunge. It really is a great experience. However if you are going to teach in the state system in an urban school (academy or not) I'd really encourage you to do a PGCE.
While I think I would probably have been ok walking into a public school and teaching forms of well behaved well motivated students. Teaching mixed ability and backgrounds is a different kettle of fish and without the training I'd have been in trouble from day one.
Even after a year of training with lots of support from my school it is not easy. Very satisfying and fulfilling but not easy.
I've got all the business skills and experience that the government is after having managed large projects, complex organisations, difficult clients and bleeding edge technology but it ain't the same as motivating a bolshy 13 year old who hasn't had breakfast!
If you are thinking about it do it but make sure you get trained!

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mahjongg
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Re: Academies can employ unqualified teachers

Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:53 pm

Grumpy Mike wrote:One of my students said that her head of science told a class "in space there is no gravity" and she said that she could not bring herself to correct him.
Thats just sick! :twisted:

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MattHawkinsUK
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Re: Academies can employ unqualified teachers

Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:17 pm

This is just another step in dumbing down education. There are plenty of people who could teach with no teaching qualifications just as there are plenty of doctors who could skip a few years in medical school but that doesn't make it a good idea. I bet I could fit a gas boiler if I tried but it would be mental to ask me to. Teaching takes more than a bit of random domain knowledge.

... but there are plenty of people with no teaching qualifications because they either couldn't get them or chose not to. Qualifications are a very good way of filtering out people who don't care about a topic. If you want to teach get the qualifications. If you don't want to bother I would have to question your true motivation.

The government wants to say "they are as good as proper teachers" but for some reason wants to pay them less. Like community support officers this is simply trying to get a job done for less money while pretending the quality doesn't suffer.

Teaching Assistants were invented to wash paint brushes or tidy the pencil pots to free up the time of teachers to teach. The government swore blind they weren't cheap replacements for proper teachers. These days most schools are using TAs to teach kids and run lessons while teachers do other things.

Crazy.

I agree with TimGUK. You need something extra to help deliver your knowledge in potentially a hostile environment!
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DexOS
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Re: Academies can employ unqualified teachers

Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:57 pm

TimGUK wrote:However if you are going to teach in the state system in an urban school (academy or not) I'd really encourage you to do a PGCE.
While I think I would probably have been ok walking into a public school and teaching forms of well behaved well motivated students. Teaching mixed ability and backgrounds is a different kettle of fish and without the training I'd have been in trouble from day one.
Even after a year of training with lots of support from my school it is not easy. Very satisfying and fulfilling but not easy.
I think your stereotyping there, you should try teaching at Manchester grammar school.
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MadHorseman
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Re: Academies can employ unqualified teachers

Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:08 am

I did a PGCE a few years (ok - decades) ago, and I seem to remember it mainly being an opportunity for extreme left-wing educational views to be taught to us aspiring teachers. I think most of us had the sense to spot this and ignore it.

I had the sense to forget about teaching and take up a career in IT. Then I married a teacher....!!!

She has taught middle & secondary and in Academies and finally in a private school in the Algarve. I'll ask her what she thinks....!! ;)

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reiuyi
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Re: Academies can employ unqualified teachers

Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:35 am

meatballs wrote: And yes those people who are great and are judged as Outstanding or are working in more difficult roles (e.g. in inner cities with more challenging catchments) should get paid more. Its the same in industry and based on merit. Currently it doesn't matter how hard you work as a teacher until you hit threshold.
This might as well be one of the reasons why some teachers actively choose not to build upon their own knowledge. When I think back of Middle school and High school, I think back of a lot of old people who are so far away from the industry they could never compete in a professional setting. And then there's others that are actively getting certificates, attending additional training programmes and excelling at what they do best.

Without a push forward (or a monetary push forward), it will forever be "oh hell I'll get paid so I'll do my minimum required work and that'll be it" for some of the staff.

In my opinion, a school is a miniature society with minorities, the rich/poor, the dumb/smart, the sociable/introvert, the workers/slackers, etcetera. Having a partially non-qualified teaching staff might say something about a society. Apparently it's sometimes allowed to do whatever job you want without having all the required certificates. In the field I work in (bio industry), you will get in serious legal issues if someone finds out you're handling laboratory animals without a certificate, or handling radioactive material without the certificates, or even being inside a higher category lab. I don't see at all why there should be legal exemptions for certain industries. If there is a deficit in teachers, it should be solved by promoting the field to middle-scholars who are in the middle of their career decision, not by lowering legal requirements.

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