ejolson
Posts: 3713
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:47 am

PiNet for Buster and the Pi 4B

Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:53 pm

The link to PiNet is here:

http://pinet.org.uk/

Is PiNet still developed?

Are there any plans for Buster to allow the Pi 4B to work as clients?

Since the 4B has Gigabit Ethernet, can it be used as the server?

User avatar
B.Goode
Posts: 8881
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:03 pm
Location: UK

Re: PiNet for Buster and the Pi 4B

Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:10 pm

ejolson wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:53 pm
The link to PiNet is here:

http://pinet.org.uk/

Is PiNet still developed?

Are there any plans for Buster to allow the Pi 4B to work as clients?

Since the 4B has Gigabit Ethernet, can it be used as the server?


I think it is a matter of public knowledge, gleaned from social media, that PiNet is the product of a single developer/maintainer. And that person has just finished their studies and begun their first full time paid employment which is involving some travel.

Raspberry Pi did not think it necessary to give this developer any pre-release information about the RPi4.

There have been changes to the corresponding GitHub repository in the last few weeks, so I assume it is not abandoned.

There is a relevant statement from the developer in this related thread: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 7#p1484207

Gbaman
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:43 pm

Re: PiNet for Buster and the Pi 4B

Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:13 pm

B.Goode wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:10 pm
ejolson wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:53 pm
The link to PiNet is here:

http://pinet.org.uk/

Is PiNet still developed?

Are there any plans for Buster to allow the Pi 4B to work as clients?

Since the 4B has Gigabit Ethernet, can it be used as the server?


I think it is a matter of public knowledge, gleaned from social media, that PiNet is the product of a single developer/maintainer. And that person has just finished their studies and begun their first full time paid employment which is involving some travel.

Raspberry Pi did not think it necessary to give this developer any pre-release information about the RPi4.

There have been changes to the corresponding GitHub repository in the last few weeks, so I assume it is not abandoned.

There is a relevant statement from the developer in this related thread: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 7#p1484207
Thanks @Goode, this is correct. As the sole developer/maintainer of PiNet, how much development time PiNet gets depends pretty heavily on what I have on my plate. With a new job (going into secondary school CS teaching) coming up in the next few weeks (with moving country across a sea to that job) and everything involved with finishing up a software dev job, spare time has been a little harder to come by.

Basically all mentioned above is correct, like many "3rd party community software" package maintainers, I didn't get any pre-notice/warning of Pi 4. Pi 4 itself is less of the issue though, more the out of the blue and much earlier than anyone else expected move to Buster that has caused me issues with this migration.

With PiNet designed for schools and folks with no Linux background, the final piece of software needs to be rock solid and upgradable. So although I am not too far from having a version of PiNet ready for Buster and Pi 4, making sure that can be cleanly upgraded from previous installations (so I don't get a stack of support emails) is a whole other challenge in itself :D



As for the question of it the PiNet server will be able to run on an actual Raspberry Pi 4, having tested the gigabit ethernet onboard, I am very hopeful it will be able to run off a Pi 4! But, I am holding off any work into that till flavours of Ubuntu are available for the Pi 4 (Raspbian is rather different than many other Debian based distros like Ubuntu).
I think it's also worth pointing out as of right now, none of the Ubuntu distros are ready for Pi 4. The upgrade is a pretty huge job, a lot larger than simply moving from Pi 3B to 3B+ for example, it took the whole community by surprise.



So I have a Pi 4B in front of me and an Ubuntu 18.04.3 VM installing currently, as tonight I have been able to set aside some time, so perhaps it will get a little closer... Actual progress can be followed on this branch https://github.com/PiNet/PiNet/tree/buster-development

(Oh and yeah, I was doing some travelling last month for a few weeks, which makes Pi development nigh on impossible, without a Pi + monitor :) )
Lead developer of PiNet, a free and opensource centralised user accounts and file storage system for Raspberry Pi classrooms used in over 200 schools across the world.
http://pinet.org.uk

Andyroo

Re: PiNet for Buster and the Pi 4B

Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:02 am

Just to say a big thank you for the update and the work you have put in so far.

Hope the job goes well and you enjoy the new stage of your life.

ejolson
Posts: 3713
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:47 am

Re: PiNet for Buster and the Pi 4B

Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:24 pm

Gbaman wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:13 pm
So I have a Pi 4B in front of me and an Ubuntu 18.04.3 VM installing currently, as tonight I have been able to set aside some time, so perhaps it will get a little closer... Actual progress can be followed on this branch https://github.com/PiNet/PiNet/tree/buster-development
It would appear that the last commit to that GitHub repository was 3 months ago. Would it be reasonable to look into alternative solutions at this point?

Gbaman
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:43 pm

Re: PiNet for Buster and the Pi 4B

Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:54 pm

ejolson wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:24 pm
Gbaman wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:13 pm
So I have a Pi 4B in front of me and an Ubuntu 18.04.3 VM installing currently, as tonight I have been able to set aside some time, so perhaps it will get a little closer... Actual progress can be followed on this branch https://github.com/PiNet/PiNet/tree/buster-development
It would appear that the last commit to that GitHub repository was 3 months ago. Would it be reasonable to look into alternative solutions at this point?
Potentially at this rate, I am unlikely to get the time to even consider the upgrade anything in the next 2 or 3 months. When folks say teachers work long hours, I can certainly confirm this.... :cry:
Lead developer of PiNet, a free and opensource centralised user accounts and file storage system for Raspberry Pi classrooms used in over 200 schools across the world.
http://pinet.org.uk

ejolson
Posts: 3713
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:47 am

Re: PiNet for Buster and the Pi 4B

Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:48 pm

Gbaman wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:54 pm
ejolson wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:24 pm
Gbaman wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:13 pm
So I have a Pi 4B in front of me and an Ubuntu 18.04.3 VM installing currently, as tonight I have been able to set aside some time, so perhaps it will get a little closer... Actual progress can be followed on this branch https://github.com/PiNet/PiNet/tree/buster-development
It would appear that the last commit to that GitHub repository was 3 months ago. Would it be reasonable to look into alternative solutions at this point?
Potentially at this rate, I am unlikely to get the time to even consider the upgrade anything in the next 2 or 3 months. When folks say teachers work long hours, I can certainly confirm this.... :cry:
I've often though the way to improve teaching in many places is not to increase pay but to decrease the duties and number of students a teacher is responsible for. The reason I believe this would help is because most people don't become educators as a get rich scheme, but because they like teaching and learning. Therefore, anything that makes it easier to teach well should attract more people interested in education.

While everyone needs enough money to survive, raising pay without allowing people to do a better job per student is only likely to attract those whose earning abilities are even less elsewhere. Of course more money combined with a teaching environment that allows a teacher time to innovate and generally do a good job would be best.

Have you though about applying for a grant to continue work on PiNet?

Ideally such a grant would reduce your teaching load to the point where there is time to continue the educational innovation you have put together called PiNet so it can continue to the next level. Given what you've already accomplished, I think you could put together a strong proposal to make the current system work for Raspbian Buster and the Pi 4B as well as to create a more general infrastructure that easily adapts as technology changes.

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