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Jim Manley
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Paper-Duino-Pi

Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:23 am

Just curious whether anyone has built a Paper-Duino-Pi, a clever open hardware and software project that uses a standard etched experimenter's perfboard with the component layout printed on paper that's overlaid upon the non-etched side of the board:

http://www.paperpcb.dernulleffekt.de/do ... perduinopi

Image

The board is attached to the Pi's GPIO pins via a female header on the trace/bottom side of the board and derives 3.3v and 5v power from the appropriate pins, along with connections to the proper GPIO pins for a serial interface and a few other signals. The AlaMode board setup software is used to install the Debian Arduino IDE and avrdude utility:

http://www.wyolum.com/downloads/alamode-setup.tar.gz

which is then modified to reflect the address of the Arduino fuses, and a 57,600 bps serial bit rate is set that's lower than the default Arduino 115,200 bps rate on /dev/ttyS0. /boot/cmdline.txt is modified to reflect:

dwc_otg.lpm_enable=0 console=tty1 root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rootfstype=ext4 elevator=deadline rootwait

In /etc/inittab, 2:23:respawn:/sbin/getty -L ttyAMA0 115200 vt100 is commented out.
The tty connection of the serial port ttyAMA0 has to be mirrored to ttyS0 in /etc/udev/rules.d
then named (the number is according to the order in which the rules were loaded) 85-paperduinopi.rules, with the following line added:
KERNEL==“ttyAMA0”, SYMLINK+=“ttyS0”,GROUP=“dialout”,MODE:=0666

The BOM is pretty dirt simple:

1 - ATmega328
4 - low current LEDs
1 - 16MHz crystal
2 - 100nF(0.1uF) capacitors
2 - 22pF capacitors
1 - 4.7nF(4,700pF/0.0047 uF) capacitor
3 - 2 Kohm, 3 - 1 Kohm, & 1 - 6.8 Kohm resistors
1 - momentary-contact button
30 - single-row female headers
1 - 26-pin female header (two 13-pin rows)
1 - experimenter's etched perfboard

Image

I'm gathering the parts and hope to have it running on the Pi by 7/31, modulo other higher-priority obligations.
The best things in life aren't things ... but, a Pi comes pretty darned close! :D
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire." -- W.B. Yeats
In theory, theory & practice are the same - in practice, they aren't!!!

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joan
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Re: Paper-Duino-Pi

Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:46 am


yaconsult
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Re: Paper-Duino-Pi

Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:03 pm

Please keep us posted. I'm interested in doing the same.

I did some research and found that in the U.S. this kind of prototyping board is called either veroboard or stripboard and I was able to find it on amazon.com. Most places only sold the type of prototyping boards with isolated pads - which is not suitable for a paperduinopi - you need a board with rows of pads that are connected together.

I found a kit of arduino parts: Barebones Arduino Circuit Kit at Jameco http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores ... 2151259_-1.. This seemed cheaper than trying to find and buy the individual parts and have them shipped.

Let us know what you learn and how it works out.

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Jim Manley
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Re: Paper-Duino-Pi

Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:42 am

Good to see others have gotten it working. I searched for it on the forum and via Google, but didn't find it with "Paper-Duino-Pi" here because it was referred to as "Easy & Cheap DIY Arduino add-on for the Raspberry Pi" - I hate when that happens! :lol:

Jameco is relatively local to me, so I can drop by to pick up parts and I already had the Arduino parts kit:

https://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/store ... Id=2151259)

and strip board:

https://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/store ... Id=2127267)

in a cart (they currently have a $5.00 off $50.00 - $74.99, $10.00 off $75.00 - $99.99, and $20.00 off $100 or more on orders through 16 August for mailing list subscribers).

Of course, if you're going to build more than one (which I plan to have students do in STEM classes if this works), you're better off buying the parts in bulk from suppliers which tend to have lower prices than Jameco, such as Mouser, Digikey, Newark, Allied, etc. I was curious as to how inexpensively a Pi GPIO-attached Arduino could be built for, given that an ATMega328 dual-inline package (DIP) can be bought in single-unit quantity for as little as $2.24:

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Atm ... rEZqxeooRg

while the gold-standard commercial Arduino Uno retails for about $30 (even at Radio Shack, of all places). There is a knock-off Uno at HobbyKing for $15.29:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... QgodVGgAkg

which faithfully replicates the annoying shield headers offset across the board (I'm suspicious it's no accident as it resembles a typical commercial ploy as a barrier to entry to offset the risk of the open hardware model). You can see the offset on the right edge of the Adafruit prototyping shield bare board:

http://www.adafruit.com/index.php?main_ ... age&pID=55

Then there are the tempting mini-duinos that I want to investigate integrating via the Pi's GPIO, such as the $9.95 Ardweeny kit that straddles an included ATmega328 DIP:

https://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/store ... Id=2115768

and the assembled surface-mount ATmega328-based DFRduino Pro Mini for $13.95:

http://www.robotmesh.com/dfrduino-pro-m ... QgodgF8AJA
The best things in life aren't things ... but, a Pi comes pretty darned close! :D
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire." -- W.B. Yeats
In theory, theory & practice are the same - in practice, they aren't!!!

yaconsult
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Re: Paper-Duino-Pi

Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:23 pm

Thank you for the links - I'm local too, so those links are especially appreciated. I believe we spoke briefly at this month's jam.

For knockoffs/compatibles - there are quite a few on dx.com and the reviews often indicate how compatible it is and any issues.

Also note this project which has exceeded it's funding goals: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/9-ard ... lectronics They have 21 days left and can provide boards at a very attractive price. At least as interesting are the lessons that will go along with the boards.
$9 ARDUINO Compatible STARTER KIT - Anyone can learn Electronics

NOW WITH ADDITIONAL KIT! Produce a nonprofit version of Arduino for only US$9 to help expanding the knowledge of electronics

okwatts
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Re: Paper-Duino-Pi

Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:28 pm

Hi
I have an Ardweeny on a breadboard for prototyping works well. I also have 3 or 4 Arduino Uno's, 3 genuine and 1 knockoff from China as well as a genuine AlaMode for the RaspPi. All work well. I follow a website that combines python and Arduino from an educator in California that you might find useful here's the link http://hacks.ayars.org/ He has plans for making his own "student version of the Arduino you may find useful.

Hope this helps.

Larry

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Jim Manley
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Re: Paper-Duino-Pi

Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:46 pm

yaconsult wrote:Also note this project which has exceeded it's funding goals: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/9-ard ... lectronics
Thanks for the link. Wow! They just exceeded their $60,000 second-challenge goal (five times the original goal, met in just five days) and still have 16 days to go. The first challenge includes a 9-volt-battery-snap-to-barrel-connector cable, and the second challenge now includes a 180-hole mini solderless breadboard (in snazzy yellow - definitely eye-catching in a sea of white ones), 10 pin-jumper wires, 6 LEDs and current-limiting resistors, a photoresistor and pairing resistor, and a buzzer. They currently have over 2,150 backers and if they get to 3,333 backers, a micro-USB to USB-A cable will be included.

Even at $12 for the single-unit price, including shipping, for a Leonardo clone (surface-mount ATmega328 and USB interface built-in), it's a great deal. The surface-mount CPU means that you can't program a DIP CPU and then embed it elsewhere (e.g., a robot application), but it's really meant for teaching kids electronics and digital-analog sensing and control. It's very interesting that he's included a complete breakdown of the cost of every component, fabrication and assembly, testing, shipping, funding collection (e.g., PayPal), etc., at each level of backing (1 unit for $12, up to 100 units for $990, including shipping). He's going to provide a website with the educational material he's going to use for the free library classes that he's teaching that were the impetus for the project.

It makes you wonder how many Pi-oriented boards that add a GPIO female interface connector on the bottom side might be funded since this is a one-shot project.
The best things in life aren't things ... but, a Pi comes pretty darned close! :D
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire." -- W.B. Yeats
In theory, theory & practice are the same - in practice, they aren't!!!

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bob_binz
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Re: Paper-Duino-Pi

Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:43 pm

Bit of a noob question, but is there a way to burn the bootloader on the chip without using another arduino or a programmer? Based on what I've been able to research so far, I'm guessing not, but just wondered with it being hooked up to the Pi

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Jim Manley
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Re: Paper-Duino-Pi

Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:15 pm

bob_binz wrote:Bit of a noob question, but is there a way to burn the bootloader on the chip without using another arduino or a programmer? Based on what I've been able to research so far, I'm guessing not, but just wondered with it being hooked up to the Pi
It appears that you either need to use an AVR in-circuit serial programmer (ISP) or another Arduino. The difference in price between an empty ATmega328 and one with the Uno Optiboot bootloader already installed is $0.54 at Jameco, but since empty ATmega328 DIP units can be bought for as little as $2.24 in single-unit quantities (e.g., Mouser.com), if you're going to be building more than a few of your own Arduinos, all you need is one Arduino that has Uno Optiboot installed and you're good to go.

Note that the Ardweeny now does have Uno Optiboot 1.0 installed, so it should work (I will verify that as soon as I've had a chance to obtain one). At about $10, the Ardweeny is a bit over half the price of a Jameco USB AVR-ISP (ISP's are as little as $8.50 on ePrey with free 10 - 16 day shipping from Hong Kong). However, the Ardweeny is a minimal Arduino Uno that a Pi can do anything with that it could with a full Uno board (an Uno's USB port wouldn't be needed on a Pi since the Ardweeny can be controlled via serial comms over the Pi's GPIO port).

Here's the authoritative Arduino page that shows how to wire two Uno boards to install a bootloader on the ATmega328 on the second board, or wire an Uno to a solderless breadboard to program an ATmega328 using a minimum number of external components (a resistor, two capacitors, and a crystal if using an external clock, or just jumpers if the ATmega is configured to use its internal clock):
http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/ArduinoISP
Last edited by Jim Manley on Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
The best things in life aren't things ... but, a Pi comes pretty darned close! :D
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire." -- W.B. Yeats
In theory, theory & practice are the same - in practice, they aren't!!!

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Jim Manley
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Re: Paper-Duino-Pi

Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:48 pm

While looking for how to install an AVR bootloader using the Pi, I stumbled across something not quite on the topic, but related in that it's about running virtual Arduinos (yes, plural) on the Pi!

http://spaceappschallenge.org/project/a ... spberry-pi

It shows how to install the ChibiOS real time operating system (RTOS) for embedded systems on a Pi SD card, along with the arduino-chibios-rpi virtual Arduino software. It appears at least three virtual Arduinos can be run at one time, each with its own configuration. I'll be trying this out, even though it appears to only emulate one digital I/O pin per virtual
Arduino, and possibly two I/O pins on one virtual Arduino (it's not clear in the article how many pins are actually supported). Of course, there are no analog input pins, since the Pi has no analog I/O built-in.
Last edited by Jim Manley on Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The best things in life aren't things ... but, a Pi comes pretty darned close! :D
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire." -- W.B. Yeats
In theory, theory & practice are the same - in practice, they aren't!!!

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Jim Manley
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Re: Paper-Duino-Pi

Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:00 pm

I did find where someone has managed to install an AVR bootloader using the Pi directly:

http://blog.stevemarple.co.uk/2012/07/a ... using.html

However, they demonstrate how to use some active circuitry to make it safe since things can go wrong with the differences between the GPIO 3.3 volt signals (the GPIO pins are connected directly to the Pi's system-on-a-chip - SOC) and the 5 volt data levels on Arduinos (there are now 3.3 volt ATmega328 parts, but they're not as common as the earlier 5 volt devices, possibly limited to the surface-mount devices as found on the Arduino Leonardo).
The best things in life aren't things ... but, a Pi comes pretty darned close! :D
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire." -- W.B. Yeats
In theory, theory & practice are the same - in practice, they aren't!!!

toxibunny
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Re: Paper-Duino-Pi

Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:09 pm

Hey, this is right up my alley, and I'm pretty sure I have all the parts already! Thanks for the info.

edit: aww, I only have perfboard, not vero/stripboard :/. Still, it's a good starting point - I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to modify to work with ordinary perfboard...
note: I may or may not know what I'm talking about...

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Jim Manley
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Re: Paper-Duino-Pi

Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:34 am

I've approached the $9 Arduino project guy (Harold Timmis) to see if he would be interested in helping get a follow-on Arduino board made that would also have a 26-pin female header on the bottom side that could plug into the Pi. It would have traces connecting the appropriate GPIO pins to Arduino digital I/O pins, along with ground and whatever else would be possible, with buffering as needed. If feasible, it would be nice to also have some GPIO pins connected to the ICSP interface to allow updating of the bootloader. That would also mean the surface-mount ATmega328 would need to be replaced with a DIP version so that they can be removed after reprogramming and used in embedded projects, e.g., robots.

That would reduce the number of Arduino digital I/O channels, but that's fine. Technically, we wouldn't need a USB interface at all, since the Arduino will already be connected to the GPIO such that a UART can be configured to communicate between the Arduino and the Pi. However, being able to use the board standalone and programmable via a PC, Mac, or Linux system via USB would be nice.

If he's not interested in helping develop a Pi variant of his board, I've asked him to provide contact info for his manufacturer since he's already done the competitive analysis to minimize costs. I'll let everyone know if Harold responds favorably in either case.
The best things in life aren't things ... but, a Pi comes pretty darned close! :D
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire." -- W.B. Yeats
In theory, theory & practice are the same - in practice, they aren't!!!

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Jim Manley
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Re: Paper-Duino-Pi

Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:16 am

Great news! Harold is willing to discuss the possibility of assisting with a Pi-specific version of his Borderless Electronics $9 Arduino board and has offered to talk to his sponsor about helping with such a potential project.

The fact that the educational market has yet to enter the Pi market in large numbers after sales of over 1.5 million boards to mostly individuals is obviously one factor for the interest in this potential project. Arduinos have a little better penetration in the educational market than the Pi percentage-wise as they've been around longer, but their total sales numbers are still smaller (300,000+) compared to overall Pi sales. This potential project could help with educational use on both platforms.

As they say on the late-night talk shows, "More to Come, So Stay Tuned!" ;)
The best things in life aren't things ... but, a Pi comes pretty darned close! :D
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire." -- W.B. Yeats
In theory, theory & practice are the same - in practice, they aren't!!!

toxibunny
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Re: Paper-Duino-Pi

Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:47 pm

*stays tuned*
note: I may or may not know what I'm talking about...

kghunt
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Re: Paper-Duino-Pi

Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:38 pm

What about a plugin for the pi (software) that enables you to upload sketches etc using codebender.cc web based arduino ide...

I have pledged for one of those arduinos and ill be pledging for at least a couple of pi specific ones. It would be good if the piduino could power itself and the pi by a 6-12v input.

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Jim Manley
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Re: Paper-Duino-Pi

Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:57 pm

kghunt wrote:What about a plugin for the pi (software) that enables you to upload sketches etc using codebender.cc web based arduino ide...
If it's not obvious, you can develop sketches on the Pi and upload them to a USB or serial connected Arduino via the Linux version of the standard Arduino IDE. Browser-based tools on the Pi tend to be a bit problematic as the lightweight browsers like Midori generally don't support Javascript and the full-featured browsers can overwhelm a Pi to the point of slowing to an unusable state. Maybe the codebender.cc site is intelligently designed to account for the abilities of the browser's system by probing to determine what resources are available, but that's very uncommon.
kghunt wrote:I have pledged for one of those arduinos and ill be pledging for at least a couple of pi specific ones. It would be good if the piduino could power itself and the pi by a 6-12v input.
If the Pi version of the board is developed, it will certainly be able to accept external power via USB or the standard (2.1mm?) Arduino DC power barrel connector, and that power may need to be isolated from the Pi to protect it. Providing power to the Pi via the GPIO connector may not be advisable unless current-limiting protection is included, as that connector bypasses the safety elements built into the Pi (e.g., polyfuses and large-width, high-current-capable printed circuit board traces, etc.). If the Pi and Arduino are powered via different sources, there are critical challenges to ensure that too much current doesn't flow in the wrong direction between the boards under particular circumstances. We're looking at all of the possibilities and will support whatever fits within the cost target and safe operating conditions.
The best things in life aren't things ... but, a Pi comes pretty darned close! :D
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire." -- W.B. Yeats
In theory, theory & practice are the same - in practice, they aren't!!!

kghunt
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Re: Paper-Duino-Pi

Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:59 pm

My point was not to run the cloud based arduino ide from the pi itself... What would be the point in that when you can just used the arduino ide... :? The codebender application has the function to upload to remote arduinos using Ethernet shields. So I was thinking more on the lines of a virtual Ethernet shield. Or some such.

Or maybe a plugin for the adafruit web ide (which does run on the pi) to add arduino support.

I tend to run my pi's headless as do a lot of other folk that is where my thought process started. Keep up the good work... I always need more hardware to tinker with. :D

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bob_binz
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Re: Paper-Duino-Pi

Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:17 pm

Does anyone know if it's possible (or how) to configure the software (avrdude? boards/programmers.txt?) to allow me to switch between this programmer and the gertboard?

yaconsult
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his campaign has been wildly successful!

Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:40 am

With 8 days left, he has already surpassed his last stretch goal and raised more than ten times what he needed. With all the experience he's gained, he'd be the ideal person to do an arduino addon for the pi. And with his focus also being education, it's a match made in heaven. How great it would be if we could get an arduino board that plugs directly into the pi for less than $10! I ordered one of the arduino boards from him to have something to play with in the meantime.
Jim Manley wrote:Great news! Harold is willing to discuss the possibility of assisting with a Pi-specific version of his Borderless Electronics $9 Arduino board and has offered to talk to his sponsor about helping with such a potential project.

The fact that the educational market has yet to enter the Pi market in large numbers after sales of over 1.5 million boards to mostly individuals is obviously one factor for the interest in this potential project. Arduinos have a little better penetration in the educational market than the Pi percentage-wise as they've been around longer, but their total sales numbers are still smaller (300,000+) compared to overall Pi sales. This potential project could help with educational use on both platforms.

As they say on the late-night talk shows, "More to Come, So Stay Tuned!" ;)

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Jim Manley
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Re: Paper-Duino-Pi

Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:46 pm

It's just unbelievable, but the final tally on the BorderlessElectronics.com Arduino Leonardo clone board project is $164,343 pledged for 15,000 boards by 7,015 funders! He had to cap pledges at 15,000 boards about a week before the campaign was scheduled to end because he wasn't sure he could buy enough surface-mount ATmega32u4 devices at the price level needed to remain within the stated budget and schedule, otherwise. He basically bought up nearly every device available from distributors for the next two months!

If we do a Pi version, one question is whether we want to do a surface-mount Leonardo clone or a DIP-socketed Uno version using the ATmega328. The former might need to wait for production as late as October due to ATmega32u4 availability being depressed by the BorderlessElectronics.com purchases. The latter would require adding another device to support USB as that's built into the ATmega32u4 but not the ATmega328. Since the board would plug directly into the Pi's GPIO port, it would be programmed via the UART serial interface, so USB wouldn't be needed unless the board were also going to be used standalone without the Pi and a host with a serial interface wasn't available.

I'm also wondering if we need to even go through IndieGoGo or any other site that will just take a cut, since well over 100,000 Pi folks read the blog alone, and I'm pretty sure the Foundation would help promote this there, if not also via other means. That would also allow for serial production as demand grows as soon as the minimum number for an order needed to make the cost target is reached (about 1,000 boards in single-quantities, initially). The problem with the BorderlessElectronics.com batch approach is that educational institutions and other bulk buyers won't know when to expect delivery, which they must have. It also puts a bulge in the python (so to speak) that has warped the supply chain, which has the potential to adversely affect pricing over months-long periods of time.

What say ye? I'm probably going to post a request for interest/comments to General Discussion, but for those who have been tracking this here, I thought I'd get some opinions from those most interested first, rather than open the can of worms in front of everyone else who may not even understand what this would actually be.
The best things in life aren't things ... but, a Pi comes pretty darned close! :D
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire." -- W.B. Yeats
In theory, theory & practice are the same - in practice, they aren't!!!

Diln21
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Re: Paper-Duino-Pi

Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:35 pm

Would providing power to board from an external source (so the board is only connected to the pi with the tx, rx, and 18) protect the raspi if I were to draw too much current from one of the atmega pins?

I hope that makes sense.
-thanks

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bob_binz
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Re: Paper-Duino-Pi

Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:17 pm

You should be able to do this - you will need to share a GND connection too though

kghunt
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Re: Paper-Duino-Pi

Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:46 pm

I would prefer the piduino to have a switching regulator on it so that I can power it and the pi from a 6 to 19v source.

Diln21
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Re: Paper-Duino-Pi

Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:32 pm

bob_binz wrote:You should be able to do this - you will need to share a GND connection too though
Do you mean share the ground from my external source with the ground from the pi?

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