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Any chance of seeing a hat like the NANO PI SATA HAT for the pi4?

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:53 am
by assistantodin
Hi all

I have been trying to find a way to attach a few 3.5" drives to the pi4 in a more elegant way than having a powered sata to USB converter for each drive. So some late night googling later turned up this hat for the nano pi:

https://www.friendlyarm.com/index.php?r ... uct_id=254

(More info here: https://www.electronics-lab.com/diy-nas ... -sata-hat/)

It looks like it would let you use a standard ATX PSU to power the drives then just connect the sata data cables (not sure what the technical term for them is) to this hat, which is exactly what i am looking for. It even has a molex connector to power the pi!

Only downside is i dont want to buy another SBC just for this, i was hoping there would be a similar (or better yet, identical) product for the rpi but for the life of me i cant find one. The closest thing i can find for the RPi is the radxa hat:

https://www.electronics-lab.com/introdu ... sata-hats/

But alas it was instantly sold out on the one site that provides UK shipping. I am going to hold out to grab one hopefully when they release a new batch but who knows when that will be

So until then, i was wondering if anyone had seen any similar products or solutions that they could recommend?

Re: Any chance of seeing a hat like the NANO PI SATA HAT for the pi4?

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:01 am
by Imperf3kt
A regular SATA to USB connector?

The linked hat may have four sata ports, but it only has one power port, so a standard hdd power supply won't work for all four at once let alone power an SBC additionally.

Re: Any chance of seeing a hat like the NANO PI SATA HAT for the pi4?

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:10 am
by assistantodin
You are correct, the nano pi hat is only connected to the data lanes of the disks, the power would be provided to the disks via a standard ATX power supply, just like with a "real" pc. Reading up on how this hat works though, it is able to connect the disks directly to the PCIe bus of the nano pi which i dont believe we are able to do with the pi4 so i guess a pi equivalent would have to cludge it and pass the disks via the usb3 ports?

The radxa hat i believe can use a molex input or a 12v barrel connector in the new hardware revision to power the whole shebang

Re: Any chance of seeing a hat like the NANO PI SATA HAT for the pi4?

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:00 am
by fruitoftheloom
assistantodin wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:10 am
You are correct, the nano pi hat is only connected to the data lanes of the disks, the power would be provided to the disks via a standard ATX power supply, just like with a "real" pc. Reading up on how this hat works though, it is able to connect the disks directly to the PCIe bus of the nano pi which i dont believe we are able to do with the pi4 so i guess a pi equivalent would have to cludge it and pass the disks via the usb3 ports?

The radxa hat i believe can use a molex input or a 12v barrel connector in the new hardware revision to power the whole shebang

The NanoPi has virtually nil relation to a Raspberry Pi apart from they both have an ARM CPU

A USB3 multi-drive bay may be a more reasonable solution !!

Re: Any chance of seeing a hat like the NANO PI SATA HAT for the pi4?

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:02 am
by HawaiianPi
assistantodin wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:10 am
...so i guess a pi equivalent would have to cludge it and pass the disks via the usb3 ports?
Not sure if it's really a kludge, but they're called drive docks. They're common in 2 drive or 4 drive capacity, but there are others as well. I have a 2 drive dock that fits either 2.5 or 3.5 inch drives and has a cloning function, and a 4 drive dock for 2.5 inch drives only.

I have used the 4 drive dock with my Pi computers, and all 4 drives are seen with a single USB connection.

Re: Any chance of seeing a hat like the NANO PI SATA HAT for the pi4?

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:04 pm
by 6by9
That HAT appears to have a Marvell 88SE9215 PCIe to SATA chip on it. Where are you getting a spare PCIe interface from on your Pi4?

As others have recommended, get a USB3 enclosure for your drives, generally called Direct Attached Storage. eg https://www.scan.co.uk/products/2-bay-i ... via-usb-30 or https://www.amazon.co.uk/StarTech-com-S ... b_title_ce

Re: Any chance of seeing a hat like the NANO PI SATA HAT for the pi4?

Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:59 am
by assistantodin
Yeah i noticed that in the specs which is why i suggested the usb bus as an alternative, wouldnt be as fast but would still be pretty useable

With regards to getting a jbod i know in my heart of hearts that i should but i am hesitant to shell out a couple hundred quid for what is essentially a case, a power supply and a fancy sata to usb converter when all i need is that sata to usb bit to get this off the ground :D

Ah well, back to refreshing the page for the radxa hat i guess! Thanks for the advice all

Re: Any chance of seeing a hat like the NANO PI SATA HAT for the pi4?

Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:32 am
by thagrol
assistantodin wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:59 am
Ah well, back to refreshing the page for the radxa hat i guess! Thanks for the advice all
Judging by a quick google that HAT won't offer any performance advantage over the equivalent number of USB to SATA dongles. Plus the claim that "Utilize two independent USB3 buses on Raspberry Pi 4" is misleading given that the 4B's USB3 ports connect back to the SoC via a single PCIE lane.

There are other issues I can see what that HAT too, especially if opting for 3.5" drives. (Power four HDD off a single FDD power connector?)

Sorry. Don't want to seem too negative, just my interpretation of their claims.

For what it's worth I built my 4B based NAS using an old mini-ITX cube case, a couple of 3.5" drives, a couple of sub £10 USB 3 to SATA dongles, and a couple of SATA extension cables. Everything runs off the ATX PSU and the extension cables were only needed because the dongles were of the combined power and data connecter type so I couldn't plug in both the dongle and the ATX power connection at the same time.

No RAID or JBOD but those can be done in software if I need them later.

Re: Any chance of seeing a hat like the NANO PI SATA HAT for the pi4?

Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:04 am
by fruitoftheloom

Re: Any chance of seeing a hat like the NANO PI SATA HAT for the pi4?

Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:40 am
by ejolson
Though not the same brand, I have a similar enclosure which is working well.

A significant advantage over a hat-like solution is that you can easily detach it from the Pi and use it on a PC.

If the PC is also running Linux, moving it around just works. If Windows you might also have to reformat, but that can at least be done if you decide to use the Pi for something else later.

On the other hand, if I was going with an SBC from FriendlyARM, I would get their m.2 NVMe hat and a suitable drive to go with that. Since we're in the Pi forum, it's worth noting that the 4B has four A72 cores while the big.LITTLE design of the RK3399 has only two. While threads work best when all cores are the same, I still can't figure out how to prevent the threads on this forum from getting locked up.