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bonzadog
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Hardware Specification of the RPi's

Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:08 pm

I have some technical literature about the RPi's but nothing that is of real meaning. Compare the specs of the Pi with other HW there is a deficit of into.
Example: Max-Max of Supply voltages (+ ripple), Min-Max Temperature, Humidity. etc.

Power supply specifications - not a reference to the "recommended " Power supply but a true specification.

I know that the Pi was originally made of education - but Makers,hobbists and professional Companies are using Pi - so a detail specs. are really needed. In fact I think the Makers and co. are now the majority
users.

Just an idea...

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Hardware Specification of the RPi's

Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:10 am

bonzadog wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:08 pm
I have some technical literature about the RPi's but nothing that is of real meaning. Compare the specs of the Pi with other HW there is a deficit of into.
Example: Max-Max of Supply voltages (+ ripple), Min-Max Temperature, Humidity. etc.

Power supply specifications - not a reference to the "recommended " Power supply but a true specification.

I know that the Pi was originally made of education - but Makers,hobbists and professional Companies are using Pi - so a detail specs. are really needed. In fact I think the Makers and co. are now the majority
users.

Just an idea...

Unlike 99Boards and MediateK SoCs, the Raspberry Pi is not Open Hardware....
Adieu

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bonzadog
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Re: Hardware Specification of the RPi's

Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:05 am

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:10 am
bonzadog wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:08 pm
I have some technical literature about the RPi's but nothing that is of real meaning. Compare the specs of the Pi with other HW there is a deficit of into.
Example: Max-Max of Supply voltages (+ ripple), Min-Max Temperature, Humidity. etc.

Power supply specifications - not a reference to the "recommended " Power supply but a true specification.

I know that the Pi was originally made of education - but Makers,hobbists and professional Companies are using Pi - so a detail specs. are really needed. In fact I think the Makers and co. are now the majority
users.

Just an idea...

Unlike 99Boards and MediateK SoCs, the Raspberry Pi is not Open Hardware....
Don't think that matters,really.

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Imperf3kt
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Re: Hardware Specification of the RPi's

Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:42 am

bonzadog wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:08 pm
Example: Max-Max of Supply voltages (+ ripple), Min-Max Temperature, Humidity. etc.

Power supply specifications - not a reference to the "recommended " Power supply but a true specification.
As stated in the documentation for the Raspberry Pi.
voltage: 5.0v +/-0.25v
Max/min temperatures: -40 to +85 (These are the guaranteed specs, some users have used the Pi way outside these ranges)
Power supply spec: capable of stable 5.0v (+/-0.25v) at 2.5A


Or were you after some other kind of information?
User experiencing technical difficulties.

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bonzadog
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Re: Hardware Specification of the RPi's

Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:32 am

Imperf3kt wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:42 am
bonzadog wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:08 pm
Example: Max-Max of Supply voltages (+ ripple), Min-Max Temperature, Humidity. etc.

Power supply specifications - not a reference to the "recommended " Power supply but a true specification.
As stated in the documentation for the Raspberry Pi.
voltage: 5.0v +/-0.25v
Max/min temperatures: -40 to +85 (These are the guaranteed specs, some users have used the Pi way outside these ranges)
Power supply spec: capable of stable 5.0v (+/-0.25v) at 2.5A


Or were you after some other kind of information?
If you look at MPU Specs. for example https://www.mouser.com/catalog/specshee ... M01233.pdf they give detailed specs. I think the RPi is EMI tested though - would like details on that as well.

I would agree that for educational purposes such detail is not required - I am thinking more of the industrial use of the Pi.
For that, I use an RPi with a UPS (eg PiJuice or other highly filtered UPS devices) and Optocoupler to all external GPIO.

OFFTOPIC: I have found the casing - use the CASE + from retroflag https://www.amazon.co.uk/Retroflag-VERS ... e%2B&psc=1 to be very useful. The case has an ON/OFF switch and a push switch on the case!

hippy
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Re: Hardware Specification of the RPi's

Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:37 pm

bonzadog wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:08 pm
I have some technical literature about the RPi's but nothing that is of real meaning.
Jamesh is currently creating / compiling / collating a single Technical FAQ but I believe nearly all the technical information you are seeking is already documented and publicly available, albeit spread around a little. The only thing I can't say for sure I have seen is operating humidity range.

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Z80 Refugee
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Re: Hardware Specification of the RPi's

Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:13 am

I don't think there's anything special about the RPi which would make it any different from typical electronics assemblies: as long as the humidity does not condense on the board, it should be OK.

That said, I am lead to understand the Compute Module version has full testing/specifications (I have not verified this).
Military and Automotive Electronics Design Engineer (retired)

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bensimmo
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Re: Hardware Specification of the RPi's

Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:10 am

Have you asked or looked at the RS and Element14/Farnell websites as they are the actual people who make and sell these devices?
RaspberryPi design them, but then license that design out.
I'm not saying they have what you need, but worth a go if you cannot find it on here.

(apart from the Zero's)

ghans
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Re: Hardware Specification of the RPi's

Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:44 pm

EMI and ROHS data are in the documentation area, for quite a bunch of national certifications (including the US FCC)

ghans
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bonzadog
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Re: Hardware Specification of the RPi's

Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:25 pm

hippy wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:37 pm
bonzadog wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:08 pm
I have some technical literature about the RPi's but nothing that is of real meaning.
Jamesh is currently creating / compiling / collating a single Technical FAQ but I believe nearly all the technical information you are seeking is already documented and publicly available, albeit spread around a little. The only thing I can't say for sure I have seen is operating humidity range.
Thank you for your input. But who is Jamesh?

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bonzadog
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Re: Hardware Specification of the RPi's

Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:27 pm

bensimmo wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:10 am
Have you asked or looked at the RS and Element14/Farnell websites as they are the actual people who make and sell these devices?
RaspberryPi design them, but then license that design out.
I'm not saying they have what you need, but worth a go if you cannot find it on here.

(apart from the Zero's)
Thank you for your comment.

It is the designers that set up the specifications of any device.

DirkS
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Re: Hardware Specification of the RPi's

Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:31 pm

bonzadog wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:25 pm
Thank you for your input. But who is Jamesh?
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=406

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bonzadog
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Re: Hardware Specification of the RPi's

Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:35 pm

DirkS wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:31 pm
bonzadog wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:25 pm
Thank you for your input. But who is Jamesh?
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=406
Thank you.

jamesh
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Re: Hardware Specification of the RPi's

Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:36 pm

Me!
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Please direct all questions to the forum, I do not do support via PM.

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bensimmo
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Re: Hardware Specification of the RPi's

Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:43 pm

bonzadog wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:27 pm
bensimmo wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:10 am
Have you asked or looked at the RS and Element14/Farnell websites as they are the actual people who make and sell these devices?
RaspberryPi design them, but then license that design out.
I'm not saying they have what you need, but worth a go if you cannot find it on here.

(apart from the Zero's)
Thank you for your comment.

It is the designers that set up the specifications of any device.
Of course, but since they "make" them they should know what they are making and selling and be able to tell you. They are not your corner shop reseller.
There is also a community there that collects information about them (at least Element14 does).

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bonzadog
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Re: Hardware Specification of the RPi's

Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:47 am

bensimmo wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:43 pm
bonzadog wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:27 pm
bensimmo wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:10 am
Have you asked or looked at the RS and Element14/Farnell websites as they are the actual people who make and sell these devices?
RaspberryPi design them, but then license that design out.
I'm not saying they have what you need, but worth a go if you cannot find it on here.

(apart from the Zero's)
Thank you for your comment.

It is the designers that set up the specifications of any device.
Of course, but since they "make" them they should know what they are making and selling and be able to tell you. They are not your corner shop reseller.
There is also a community there that collects information about them (at least Element14 does).
es, indeed - but still the point is a spec. from Raspberrypi.org would be the best way and only way.

RESUMÉ:
Well, the question has been answered: No Spec from RPi but some by other people. Ok for School pupils, but for the more advanced applications. But still no great hindrance.
I did read after my first comment here that a lecturer )in America) will not use RPis due to this lack of specs. I cannot agree - a pity I no longer have the reference to his comment.

Thanlk you all for your Inputs.

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Re: Hardware Specification of the RPi's

Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:58 am

Recomended power supply is 5v 2.5A at the board.

The official power supply is actually 5.1v to compensate for voltage drop over the supply cable.

If in doubt, buy the reasonably priced official power supply.


It's always worth noting that we have sold MILLIONS of devices in to commercial or industrial applications. The people who have used them have managed to get by without certain specs, that others seem to think are essential. As Confusius once said, "Better a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without.". Those people who worked things out for themselves now probably have a market lead that those still waiting for certains specifications will never catch up.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
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hippy
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Re: Hardware Specification of the RPi's

Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:05 pm

bonzadog wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:47 am
Well, the question has been answered: No Spec from RPi but some by other people.
I don't believe that is the case at all. Perhaps you could detail a necessary specification which has not been officially provided ?

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bonzadog
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Re: Hardware Specification of the RPi's

Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:26 am

hippy wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:05 pm
bonzadog wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:47 am
Well, the question has been answered: No Spec from RPi but some by other people.
I don't believe that is the case at all. Perhaps you could detail a necessary specification which has not been officially provided?
I had done that by providing an example in a previous comment. Or take a look at other devices like Intel or other MPU manufactures
and compare that to the rpi "specs".

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bonzadog
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Re: Hardware Specification of the RPi's

Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:36 am

jamesh wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:58 am
Recomended power supply is 5v 2.5A at the board.

The official power supply is actually 5.1v to compensate for voltage drop over the supply cable.

If in doubt, buy the reasonably priced official power supply.


It's always worth noting that we have sold MILLIONS of devices in to commercial or industrial applications. The people who have used them have managed to get by without certain specs, that others seem to think are essential. As Confusius once said, "Better a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without.". Those people who worked things out for themselves now probably have a market lead that those still waiting for certains specifications will never catch up.
There are some lecturers that will not advise using the RPi due to a lack of specs. Unfortunately, I do not have that link but will try and find it and post it here...and what happens is a failure that causes damage and the insurance people may demand specs of the components?

Of course, you can "get by" but is that good engineering? I have one sold project using RPi3's and have no problems (using filtered UPS and bi-directional optocouplers for GPIO.

But like I said Ithink this dicussion is at an end and thak you all.

jamesh
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Re: Hardware Specification of the RPi's

Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:05 am

bonzadog wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:36 am
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:58 am
Recomended power supply is 5v 2.5A at the board.

The official power supply is actually 5.1v to compensate for voltage drop over the supply cable.

If in doubt, buy the reasonably priced official power supply.


It's always worth noting that we have sold MILLIONS of devices in to commercial or industrial applications. The people who have used them have managed to get by without certain specs, that others seem to think are essential. As Confusius once said, "Better a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without.". Those people who worked things out for themselves now probably have a market lead that those still waiting for certains specifications will never catch up.
There are some lecturers that will not advise using the RPi due to a lack of specs. Unfortunately, I do not have that link but will try and find it and post it here...and what happens is a failure that causes damage and the insurance people may demand specs of the components?

Of course, you can "get by" but is that good engineering? I have one sold project using RPi3's and have no problems (using filtered UPS and bi-directional optocouplers for GPIO.

But like I said Ithink this dicussion is at an end and thak you all.
Odd that lecturers think that - not sure which specs are missing that would change their minds. We have many compliance documents which means we can sell almost worldwide, FCC, EU etc. Sounds like these lecturers are in the "Not invented here" camp, or perhaps the "Cut off own nose to spite face" group. How many home devices do they happily plug in without ever looking at the specs? To sell in the EU etc we have to adhere to the same constraints as any other electrical home devices, our devices are SAFE.

https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... formity.md
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
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bensimmo
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Re: Hardware Specification of the RPi's

Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:11 am

To be fair, given the critical nature of the Power Supply needed for the Pi and the many "check you PSU answers" then that spec and what the tolerances, ripple are is fine question.
Of course that is just for the Pi itself and couldn't include anything else on the 5V line, less so even on the Zero's.
Given they always recommend the official PSU, then
Output Regulation +/-5%
Line Regulation +/-2%
Ripple & Noise 120mVp-p Maximum
Rise Time 100mS Maximum at nominal input
Could be used as an official spec?
(Though not official of course)

The Pi3B+ talk (as I could find it easy) for its power is in a blog https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/pi-power-supply-chip/
They should certainly be able to give you what it is designed for as the chipspec for the power doobery is there.

As for who is JamesH.
He's the one that has been doing a lot of work getting the documentation updated and improved, especially with input form the forum (forum is in his personal time iirc)
He one of the Engineers sat in the office.
They are not a massive team, things take time. But I guess it may have been noted.
But to make sure it is logged you could create in issue, for the specifics and reasons why it is need, on GitHub.
https://github.com/raspberrypi/documentation/

I can happily get by without them, but I'm not everyone.

jamesh
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Re: Hardware Specification of the RPi's

Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:39 am

bensimmo wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:11 am
He's the one that has been doing a lot of work getting the documentation updated and improved, especially with input form the forum (forum is in his personal time iirc)
He one of the Engineers sat in the office.
I do quite a bit of forum stuff behind my desk as well as at home, on the train, in bed, on holiday etc.

Hmm, when I put it like that, perhaps I spend too much time here....
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
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