tlc
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Re: Raspberry Pi PIC Programmer using GPIO

Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:52 am

saranga2000 wrote:Hi Holden,
I tried without the led's. Previously I also had not connected capacitors across the power supply, I did that this time around.

Running sudo ./rpp still returns the same Error: unknown device or programmer not connected.
I once again connected led's to each of the outs, to check that they could be lit up by high/low of pins 4, 7, 9. Once I was sure these were working, I removed them like you had advised.

I am stumped, can you please help? How would I go about debugging this? Could the pic be faulty ( it is brand new)? Is there anything I'm missing? Is there any way to monitor the pulse profile ( the kind that you simulated on ngspice) when I run sudo rpp? Would that help?

Thanks
Hi saranga2000!
I can confirm, that Holdens circuit works ok - I have build it last week and have tested it with two chips. So there must be a problem somewhere in your construction or Raspberry GPIO. Can you measure, that there is really 5V DC at the output of the 78L05? And that this +5V is at the pin 14 of the 16F628 chip (and ground at the pin 5 of the 16F628 chip)? And that your power source is able to deliver 12-14V DC for VPP?
As for Raspberry GPIO independent test I can recomend wiringPi gpio project. You can verify I/O state easily using wiringPi gpio utility - and read/set gpio pin levels.
And the best way to test if your chip is ok is to use it in another programmer - if you have any nearby.

Tomas

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ValterFukuoka
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Re: Raspberry Pi PIC Programmer using GPIO

Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:04 am

tlc wrote:Hi Holden!
I have successfully read PIC12F675 chip using modified rpp yesterday night.
Nice to know others are getting success with more MCUs...
I have no prior knowledge at programming at electric level, but I've got all the parts to try and I think I will be putting a good time studying and hacking around the Holden's methodology...

If done, combining Holden's method with the small project I am working... will be a NICE and COOL idea...

Image

Here I am putting more information about my little project:
https://sites.google.com/site/molec12f1840/

saranga2000
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Re: Raspberry Pi PIC Programmer using GPIO

Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:47 pm

Thanks for your reply Tomas. I have just bought a pic programmer. I will try the things you suggested and post back.

tlc
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Re: Raspberry Pi PIC Programmer using GPIO

Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:51 am

Hi all.
I have successfully tested my modified code with 12F675 chip. Including preserve or overwrite OSCCAL and BG bits. And read the 16F877A chip - programing it is a little bit different from 16F877 chip. I will add write and erase support for 16F87xA chip family soon. Modified source and circuit (including two LEDs) can be found at: http://www.volny.cz/tlc/rpp/

tlc
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Re: Raspberry Pi PIC Programmer using GPIO

Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:33 am

Hi.
I have finished adding full support for 16F87xA chip family and released 0.2 version. I have successfully tested this version of rpp with chips 12F675, 16F627A, 16F877A.
Modified source and circuit (including two LEDs) can be found at: http://www.volny.cz/tlc/rpp/

Holden
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Re: Raspberry Pi PIC Programmer using GPIO

Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:42 pm

Hello all,

I'm very happy to see that many of you are using/studying rpp and finding it useful, after all this was the spirit of the project: a not-too-complicated programmer that people could study and hack on easily. As I said earlier I don't have much free time to work on it right now, but I'm sure that'll change in the future. I still have a 0.10+ version here I was working on some time ago and I do plan to add support for other chips (I will probably order some chips this weekend, but they'll take a month or so to arrive here from China).

Tomas, I visited your page, good job! I would only ask you one thing, if it's possible: since you forked the project and the hardware interface is a bit different, please use a different name (for example rpp-tlc). This will help avoiding confusion with the users :)
Also, if you haven't already done so, add some text to the README file explaining the following points:

0) this is your modified version
1) it is based on rpp, with a link to my page
2) list the new features it contains
3) add a link to your webpage for schematics and docs

Thanks,
Holden

tlc
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Re: Raspberry Pi PIC Programmer using GPIO

Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:51 pm

Hi Holden.
Ok. I renamed my modification of your rpp to rpp-tlc.
I was not sure if I can do this or not, so thank you for this hint.
And yes, there are the informations in README file which you mentioned above.
Thanks,
Tomas

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ValterFukuoka
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Re: Raspberry Pi PIC Programmer using GPIO

Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:06 pm

Hi Holden, Tomas, I just want to say that I succeed building the device on a breadboard...
Tested ok with 16F84A (read/write).
Tested ok with 16F628A (read).

Then,
start a little idea together with my Moleculine idea...

[Building Moleculine From Scratch]
I succeed with a basic prototype of "Moleculine Factory" using a PIC16F886... so far so good...

Everything is just a in a "mess" state, BUT IT IS WORKING!!!
I still reading PDF about the "electrical programming", and, in the beginning I was using Holden's code (it can read ID and perform a entire "export hex" operation with the 16F886)...
Holden's code can program the PIC but something fail to "read" the "just programmed word" and then the process stops...

Then I decide to take a look at Tomas code, and still I have some doubts about the parameters I was using for the 16F886...

At the moment, I use Holden's code to "bulk erase" and then use Tomas code to program the PIC... with success...

I also create modification for the Firmware Bootloader and the BootUploader Application to work with the 16F886 (I think they will also work for the 16F887)...

I will put more infos in this link here (https://sites.google.com/site/molecfactory/), also photos and source codes...

Thanks to both of you. Now I know that the idea can work together with Moleculine...

As soon as I have all the correct RPP information for the 16F886 I will post here and on that page above...

NICE!

Regards all,
Valter

saranga2000
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Re: Raspberry Pi PIC Programmer using GPIO

Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:16 am

Great to see multiple people having success with Holden's rpp - rpp itself and mods. Just reiterates how much of a noob I am, how far I am from the skills needed.
For my part, I tried
1. rebuilding the circuit a few times - did not help
2. tried to measure the voltages at vss and vdd like tlc suggested - showed 0V & 5V, but still rpi couldnt read the pic
3. tried to program the PIC with PIC2Kit, to get a led to turn on/off with delay - led wouldnt light up - After programming, I put the pic on a breadboard, connected up 5V to VDD, GND to VSS, led +ve connected at RB5, led negative connected to VSS through a 500Ohm resistor to VSS. Voltage at RB4 was 0.12V.

I am currently trying to see if I can find anyone in my city to help me learn electronics - as I realised asking HW help on forums is not as easy as Software stuff. I will post back if I successfully identify ( with someone local's help) what I have been doing wrong.

In the meanwhile, a question on PICs - is it possible to not reprogram the entire chip but change some value in the EEPROM ( rather than flash)? For example - is it possible to firstly program the chip with some led blinking program. And subsequently only change the number of times to blink or delay - which the program would access from EEPROM ? The reason I am interested in this is that I read in the PIC datasheet that flash can be reprogrammed 10,000 times while EEPROM can be reprogrammed 10 million times. If I am way off with what I think I read ,apologies.

Thanks

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ValterFukuoka
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Re: Raspberry Pi PIC Programmer using GPIO

Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:43 am

Hi everybody.
I finally reach a string-data for the 16F886 that is working and which one I am more confident about the parameters that is there, so I did the upload to the site...

https://sites.google.com/site/molecfactory/home

After some more tests I will like to suggest to Tomas the string-data as patch to be included...
Regards all,
Valter

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ValterFukuoka
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Re: Raspberry Pi PIC Programmer using GPIO

Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:35 am

Hi, I'm having some trouble trying to set frequency clock for the MCU using assembly...

I have a working blinking LED working when I use PicKit2 Programmer and INHX8M hex format...
This same code works but don't allows me to change the frequency (works only on default clock) on the RPP Programming Method...

Maybe it has something to do with the INHX16 format, or my "patch" (string data) are not correct for the CONFIGURATION portion of the programming... I will check more later about it and come back here...

I put the sample code on the "devel" zip on the molecfactory page:
https://sites.google.com/site/molecfactory/

(source .asm only)...

Thanks all,
Valter

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ValterFukuoka
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Re: Raspberry Pi PIC Programmer using GPIO

Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:35 am

ValterFukuoka wrote:Hi, I'm having some trouble trying to set frequency clock for the MCU using assembly...

Thanks all,
Valter
Oops. MY FAULT.

After programming just need a RESET (hardware) and it works FINE.

Just after programming, the program runs automatically, and in this execution instance ONLY, the frequency is (seems to be) the default... just need a hardware reset and it start with the RIGHT (programmed) FREQUENCY...

Sorry for this mistake.
Thanks...
I will do a check at the exported hex file, and if there is any problem I will report...

Valter

Holden
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Re: Raspberry Pi PIC Programmer using GPIO

Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:23 pm

saranga2000 wrote:I am currently trying to see if I can find anyone in my city to help me learn electronics - as I realised asking HW help on forums is not as easy as Software stuff. I will post back if I successfully identify ( with someone local's help) what I have been doing wrong.
I'm sure working with a friend or someone who has experience with all this can be a big help, just don't give up :)
saranga2000 wrote:In the meanwhile, a question on PICs - is it possible to not reprogram the entire chip but change some value in the EEPROM ( rather than flash)? For example - is it possible to firstly program the chip with some led blinking program. And subsequently only change the number of times to blink or delay - which the program would access from EEPROM ? The reason I am interested in this is that I read in the PIC datasheet that flash can be reprogrammed 10,000 times while EEPROM can be reprogrammed 10 million times. If I am way off with what I think I read ,apologies.
Yes, it's possible to program the EEPROM memory only (although rpp cannot do this at the moment, it always does a bulk erase first), but I don't think that reprogramming the entire chip is a problem. At page 3 of the PIC16F628A datasheet I can read:

Code: Select all

• High-Endurance Flash/EEPROM cell:
- 100,000 write Flash endurance
- 1,000,000 write EEPROM endurance
- 40 year data retention
This basically means you can program the chip once a day for 273 years, or 5 times a day for 54 years, before you actually wear it out!

tlc
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Re: Raspberry Pi PIC Programmer using GPIO

Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:24 am

Hi all.

I have purchased PIC 16F630 and 16F887 yesterday. I have succesfully tested my code (0.2) with 16F630. And I'm planning to add support for 16F88x family to rpp-tlc code soon.

Valter, thanks for your investigation and prepared line for 16F886. It will speed up my work.
For 16F88x family there is one more task to be done. Theese chips uses two configuration words, so I will add this feature to my code too.

And for saranga2000's question about possibility to program data memory only - yes I want to add this to my code too, because if only data memory reprogramming is needed it takes a resonable shorter amount of time to reprogramm data memory only. Especially if you are working with "larger" chips like 16F887. But this means to modify the code a bit more, so this will take some time.

Tomas

tlc
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Re: Raspberry Pi PIC Programmer using GPIO

Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:06 pm

Hi all.
Thanks to Easters holidays I have finished version 0.3 of rpp-tlc.
It can be found at: http://www.volny.cz/tlc/rpp/
New features are:
- support for PIC 16F88x family (including both configuration words - and display chip's Calibration word)
- bulk erase EEPROM DATA memory only ( -E option )
- bulk erase and program EEPROM DATA memory only ( -W option )

I have successfully tested this version with PIC 12F675, 16F627a, 16F877a, 12F629, 16F628a, 16F887, 16F630 chips.

Happy Easters,
Tomas

saranga2000
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Re: Raspberry Pi PIC Programmer using GPIO

Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:33 pm

Awesome Tomas - for adding EEPROM only erase and write. Makes me all the more frustrated that I havent made much progress in getting it to work - talked to two good electronics hackers here - and they suggested I go with arduino instead of PIC for my needs ( and talk to it over usb) . That would probably be easier, but not the most optimal solution. I still dont feel like giving up, but I will resort to arduino if I make no headway in next few weeks.

Speaking of optimal - Holden, as its apparent - I am a complete noob to electronics - but even I was able to partially appreciate the elegance, efficiency of your pic programmer circuit to another that is also featured in raspberrypi.org and lifehacker and other places. Far lesser components, 1 lesser GPIO pin, and very logical circuit. Ofcourse, that is also an amazing effort, probably simpler ( no pnp transitors, led lights etc), still thank you.

One of the next steps I have been meaning to try given, I am completely clueless about unblocking myself/debugging is take your ( Tomas's) PCB drawing - do the laserprinting/acetone stuff - and wire it up - the key advantage I see ( and for every electronics noob) is you have actually printed out how the transitors etc should be positioned.

Will post back after I try that - if I fail to get rpp working with that - I guess its arduino for me, until I ramp up on electronics debugging.

Happy Easter to all.

Krelian
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi PIC Programmer using GPIO

Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:37 pm

My thanks to both Holden and tlc, made the programmer and it works perfectly.

And it works with other general npn/pnp, I can confirm that, since I've used bc547 and c9012

My portable version (for use with my breadboards): http://krelian.dk/images/pitopicprogrammer.jpg


BTW @ tlc/holden PIC16F628 is equal to PIC16F628a, but has device id 0x07c0
I7-2600K (5.1Ghz),Maximus IV Extreme, 2x6950, 8GB, 120GB SDD (Windows).

http://www.krelian.dk
https://github.com/XenoKrelian/RpiJtag
http://www.bitvisitor.com/?ref=17EraBbv61bY3iuAADgXYV8kfatcAuB7Cc

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ValterFukuoka
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Re: Raspberry Pi PIC Programmer using GPIO

Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:34 pm

Hi all,
after success with the rpp-tlc 886 and 887 I did a list of "ranking" of popularity of PICs using Google search engine, hoping to get some "light" about futures choices of MCUs for the Moleculine Project.

The information may be useful for the RPP itself, so I am sharing the ranking list here.
This is the 35 "most popular PICs (12F and 16F):

Code: Select all

PIC16F84A	716000
PIC12F675	637000
PIC12F508	548000
PIC16F628A	475000
PIC12F629	395000
PIC16F72	344000
PIC16F676	310000
PIC16F887	247000
PIC16F88	246000
PIC16F690	230000
PIC16F819	229000
PIC16F73	216000
PIC12F683	201000
PIC16F1939	187000
PIC16F59	165000
PIC16F684	156000
PIC16F87	153000
PIC16F630	147000
PIC16F886	146000
PIC16F688	135000
PIC16F648A	117000
PIC16F716	117000
PIC16F627A	113000
PIC16F74	102000
PIC10F200	101000
PIC16F57	98000
PIC16F883	94200
PIC16F818	87000
PIC12F509	85300
PIC16F77	80900
PIC16F54	78400
PIC16F76	74300
PIC16LF1903	72600
PIC16LF1904	71500
PIC16F505	69900
I will be doing the complete list including 18F families.
For while, the full list for the 12F and 16F is here:
https://sites.google.com/site/picranking/home

Not a perfect ranking list but I think it can be useful...
Regards all,
Valter

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ValterFukuoka
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Re: Raspberry Pi PIC Programmer using GPIO

Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:14 am

Hi all, here is the "rank list" for the 18F Families...

The 35 "most popular" 18Fs:

Code: Select all

PIC18F4431	685,000
PIC18F4550	651,000
PIC18F2550	446,000
PIC18F4520	238,000
PIC18F2682	197,000
PIC18F4620	187,000
PIC18F4610	141,000
PIC18F2515	133,000
PIC18F14K50	123,000
PIC18F2610	117,000
PIC18F6390	113,000
PIC18F2455	109,000
PIC18F4515	107,000
PIC18F8722	105,000
PIC18F1320	102,000
PIC18F97J60	95,900
PIC18F85J11	92,900
PIC18F2520	90,100
PIC18F86J60	81,100
PIC18F2450	75,500
PIC18F2620	74,700
PIC18F1220	72,800
PIC18F8390	72,000
PIC18F45K20	71,800
PIC18F86J90	71,100
PIC18F66J16	67,600
PIC18F86J15	67,500
PIC18F63J11	67,200
PIC18F8310	66,800
PIC18F67J60	65,800
PIC18F4580	64,700
PIC18F96J65	64,100
PIC18F2480	63,900
PIC18F65J11	63,900
Complete lists for 12F, 16F and 18F with details is here:
https://sites.google.com/site/picranking/

If you want to look at particular PIC popularity through time, use the Google Trend site:
http://www.google.com/trends
Ex.: http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=PIC18F14K50

Regards,
Valter

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ValterFukuoka
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Re: Raspberry Pi PIC Programmer using GPIO

Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:46 am

Hi, Holden, Tomas and all interested in the current topic,
I want to place a question around a subject connected with RPP and RPP-TLC, so the question is for Holden and Tomas, but anyone can participate, as the subject matter is general and can be applied for any other software or hardware (open source).

My question is:
I am a teacher and have lots of interest in including RPP-TLC software and hardware in the activities that I do. Also, I like to be able to sell RPP Hardware Kits for the people I will be teaching, because they can make a very interesting companion for Moleculines (the Project I am staring: https://sites.google.com/site/psmoleculine/) and Raspberry PIs.
So, I like to ask if there is any set of agreement that we can use, or if necessary how can we create one basic set of “rules”, regarding the monetary compensation and other implications in the case when I start do sell RPP hardware using the RPP-TLC software…?
In other words, what would be a good percentage (I guess from the profit) to transfer to authors when we sell hardware design and software (open hard, open soft) that they did?
My idea is that it is possible to have a stable set of “rules” or “recommendations” every time we have this kind of situation, so that the “open source” part of it can benefit, as well as the commercial possibility… if the authors enjoy monetary benefits they can make more development, and if we can have a clear basic set of “rules”, more and more people will be able to sell or use it as part of services… in the end, the software or the hardware will enjoy is full potential growth…

I like to invite both and anyone else that can help the dialog to share any ideas or information that lead us to a stable and generalized set of “rules” for this kind of cooperation…
I have a kind of “big picture thinking” about the subject, which I am making public here: https://sites.google.com/site/invitemakerscreators, and also, want to invite EVERYBODY to have a look at it and help to materialize its possibilities (this will be a second goal for this post).

Or, anybody that has some design out there or anybody that is selling others people design, if you have some insight on the subject please help…

Thanks all,
Valter Fukuoka
dotsoft@gmail.com

Holden
Posts: 30
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Re: Raspberry Pi PIC Programmer using GPIO

Thu May 09, 2013 3:18 pm

ValterFukuoka wrote: My question is:
I am a teacher and have lots of interest in including RPP-TLC software and hardware in the activities that I do. Also, I like to be able to sell RPP Hardware Kits for the people I will be teaching, because they can make a very interesting companion for Moleculines (the Project I am staring: https://sites.google.com/site/psmoleculine/) and Raspberry PIs.
So, I like to ask if there is any set of agreement that we can use, or if necessary how can we create one basic set of “rules”, regarding the monetary compensation and other implications in the case when I start do sell RPP hardware using the RPP-TLC software…?
In other words, what would be a good percentage (I guess from the profit) to transfer to authors when we sell hardware design and software (open hard, open soft) that they did?
My idea is that it is possible to have a stable set of “rules” or “recommendations” every time we have this kind of situation, so that the “open source” part of it can benefit, as well as the commercial possibility… if the authors enjoy monetary benefits they can make more development, and if we can have a clear basic set of “rules”, more and more people will be able to sell or use it as part of services… in the end, the software or the hardware will enjoy is full potential growth…
Hi Valter,

sorry for the late reply, but for some reason I did not get the forum notification on my mailbox that informed me that there were new posts on this thread. Anyway, about your question: if that's okay with you I'll send you an email to discuss this matter. Thanks,

Holden

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ValterFukuoka
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Re: Raspberry Pi PIC Programmer using GPIO

Thu May 09, 2013 10:58 pm

Holden wrote:
ValterFukuoka wrote: My question is:
I am a teacher and have lots of interest in including RPP-TLC software and hardware in the activities that I do. Also, I like to be able to sell RPP Hardware Kits for the people I will be teaching...
Hi Valter,

sorry for the late reply, but for some reason I did not get the forum notification on my mailbox that informed me that there were new posts on this thread. Anyway, about your question: if that's okay with you I'll send you an email to discuss this matter. Thanks,

Holden
Hi Holden, thanks for replying.
Yes, sure,
My Gmail-address is: dotsoft
or, you can find some SNS (etc) contacts here: https://sites.google.com/site/valterfukuoka/

Valter

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ValterFukuoka
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Re: Raspberry Pi PIC Programmer using GPIO

Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:55 am

ValterFukuoka wrote:
Holden wrote:
ValterFukuoka wrote: My question is:
I am a teacher and have lots of interest in including RPP-TLC software and hardware in the activities that I do. Also, I like to be able to sell RPP Hardware Kits for the people I will be teaching...
Hi Valter,
sorry for the late reply, but for some reason I did not get the forum notification on my mailbox that informed me that there were new posts on this thread. Anyway, about your question: if that's okay with you I'll send you an email to discuss this matter. Thanks,
Holden
Hi Holden, thanks for replying.
Yes, sure,
My Gmail-address is: dotsoft
Valter
Hello again...
Holden, did you get this msg? If so did you try to send me any e-mail?
I am asking because I still thinking about some kind of possible cooperation around my Moleculine Project and the RPP-TLC device and Project...

I am now testing my Moleculine using Windows PC to program them, and it seems to work almost without changes and now the idea to use RPP-TLC still interesting for me...
Image
https://sites.google.com/site/psmolecwin/

Also, I am creating first prototypes of first practical application for the Moluculine, so I am thinking more serious about them... I am developing a kind of Micro-BlackBox (as in aviation) that can record information inside a Microcontroller itself, storing it in Flash Memory (some kind of "SQL" for PICs)...
There are some experiments here (temperature and light): https://sites.google.com/site/microbbox/
Image

Or, any other person who may want to participate on the debate and the development...

Thanks all,
regards,
Valter

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ValterFukuoka
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Re: Raspberry Pi PIC Programmer using GPIO

Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:20 am

Hi all, I build a small 5V to 12V DC Converter Circuit to feed the 12 Volts to RPP, so we don't need to rely on an external power supply...

Running tests on it...

Image

Preliminary tests on RPP with 16F886 is doing well...

I have photo, electronic scheme, and details on the RPP-Molec Factory Site:
https://sites.google.com/site/molecfactory/home

Regards,
Valter

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ValterFukuoka
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Re: Raspberry Pi PIC Programmer using GPIO

Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:20 am

Hi all, just want to say that yesterday I start adapting the RPP-TLC for the 1xF18xx Family... and after some hours looking at datasheets and trying I SUCCEED with "id", "erase", "write" and "read"... the ones that I did test:

.12F1822
.12F1840
.16F1823
.16F1825
.16F1827
.16F1828
.16F1829
.16F1938
.16F1939

Image
(Photo 12F1822)

I am using the DC Step Up from the last post photo and setting at 8.96Volts (according to datasheets 8V ~ 9V)...
In order to hack around I completely "destroyed" the code, so it will take me while to integrate it with the original code, soon after I will make the changes available...
Also, the current routine for "read" need further improvement for speed, it's working but very slow...

Regards,
Valter

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