poing
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Re: Raspberry Pi Camera Board with CS mount Lens

Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:53 pm

The difference with the original camera board is that the original lens is screwed into the little plastic blob that holds the sensor where the alignment within the blob is based on factory tolerances. The plastic blob itself is not very well mounted to the green board, with sticky tape I guess. If you then use a different lens the mounting of the plastic blob to the green board suddenly becomes an important issue. Apparently they didn't see this.

poing
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Re: Raspberry Pi Camera Board with CS mount Lens

Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:13 am

BTW, I forgot to add the test method to see if the focal plane is right.

It's basically very simple; you have to mount the board with one screw so you can rotate it 180 degrees. Then take two images of a three dimensional scene, like you did with the window, where one of them has the board rotated 180 degrees. Both images should have equal parts of the scene in focus.

snazbaz
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Re: Raspberry Pi Camera Board with CS mount Lens

Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:07 pm

I had a play with this last night.

1) Yes the sensor is just attached to the PCB using sticky pad and can easily be nudged fairly easily in all directions and could easily not be flat/flush.

2) I tried to move it in various directions to get a better image. I managed to get it slightly better but at about this point I think I pushed the sensor too hard against its own ribbon cable and it's now looking like a dead camera module, doh.

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rleyden
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Re: Raspberry Pi Camera Board with CS mount Lens

Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:41 pm

I was curious enough about this camera that I sent the Ebay seller a couple questions.
Dear electronics_lee,
Two questions;
Is the Integral IR filter attached to the sensor or the
lens?
What does "fixed focus mount" mean? Is the focus in any sense
adjustable?
Here is the reply:
Dear Sir,
The IR filter is on the top of the sensor.
The Lens is 6mm fix focus length, you can change to other focus length like 4mm or 16mm.
Any questions else,please feel free to let us know.
Regards,
I'm unfamiliar with the CS mount and perhaps the issue of focus is moot given the other discussion. Is the focus set at infinity? What is the minimum distance that's in-focus.? What would be the advantage of a CS mount be over a 11 x .05 screw mount or the native screw mount that can be adjusted for focus?

gsh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
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Re: Raspberry Pi Camera Board with CS mount Lens

Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:54 pm

snazbaz wrote:I had a play with this last night.

1) Yes the sensor is just attached to the PCB using sticky pad and can easily be nudged fairly easily in all directions and could easily not be flat/flush.

2) I tried to move it in various directions to get a better image. I managed to get it slightly better but at about this point I think I pushed the sensor too hard against its own ribbon cable and it's now looking like a dead camera module, doh.

Hey you should send it back, see if they replace it... :)

Gordon
--
Gordon Hollingworth PhD
Raspberry Pi - Director of Software Engineering

poing
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Re: Raspberry Pi Camera Board with CS mount Lens

Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:15 pm

rleyden wrote:The Lens is 6mm fix focus length, you can change to other focus length like 4mm or 16mm.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:shock:
:?
:( :( :(

poing
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Re: Raspberry Pi Camera Board with CS mount Lens

Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:26 pm

snazbaz wrote:...but at about this point I think I pushed the sensor too hard against its own ribbon cable and it's now looking like a dead camera module, doh.
Are you sure the little sensor connector ('Sunny' on the original board) is not dislodged? Got me puzzled for a while when fiddling around with the board...

poing
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Re: Raspberry Pi Camera Board with CS mount Lens

Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:52 pm

poing wrote:
rleyden wrote:The Lens is 6mm fix focus length, you can change to other focus length like 4mm or 16mm.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:shock:
:?
:( :( :(
OK, on second thought, maybe they meant you can buy additional lenses to change the focal length, that would make sense. Still, first get the alignment up to par!

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rleyden
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Re: Raspberry Pi Camera Board with CS mount Lens

Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:44 pm

poing wrote:. Still, first get the alignment up to par!
Yeah, I figured there was a possible mis-communication, although I've had worse language issues with China based Ebay Sellers, Once after getting a cryptic answer to my question I used Google translate to put my question into Chinese. That must have shocked them because I got a second answer back (in English, probably from a different person) that clearly answered my question.

Regarding alignment: Your analysis makes sense. I haven't noticed alignment issues when I added a M12 lens adapter to the official RPi camera board. My M12 adaption seems to share the same inherent design flaws, flexible double back tape and likely bending of the camera board by asymmetric screw attachment. Probably I just haven't looked closely enough.

snazbaz
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Re: Raspberry Pi Camera Board with CS mount Lens

Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:08 pm

poing wrote:
snazbaz wrote:...but at about this point I think I pushed the sensor too hard against its own ribbon cable and it's now looking like a dead camera module, doh.
Are you sure the little sensor connector ('Sunny' on the original board) is not dislodged? Got me puzzled for a while when fiddling around with the board...
Spot on! now up and running again

Ran your test (swapped the whole mount round 180degrees) and the image looks exactly the same. So looks like it's definitely just misaligned then.

poing
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Re: Raspberry Pi Camera Board with CS mount Lens

Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:09 pm

snazbaz wrote:Ran your test (swapped the whole mount round 180degrees) and the image looks exactly the same. So looks like it's definitely just misaligned then.
Not sure I understand, so let's get thing straight: Assuming the sensor is misaligned, the top of the window in your normal photo is sharp and the bottom blurry, then in the 180 degree swapped image the bottom of the window should be sharp and the top blurry.

snazbaz
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Re: Raspberry Pi Camera Board with CS mount Lens

Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:28 pm

poing wrote:
snazbaz wrote:Ran your test (swapped the whole mount round 180degrees) and the image looks exactly the same. So looks like it's definitely just misaligned then.
Not sure I understand, so let's get thing straight: Assuming the sensor is misaligned, the top of the window in your normal photo is sharp and the bottom blurry, then in the 180 degree swapped image the bottom of the window should be sharp and the top blurry.
I don't have the window scene anymore (it's too dark and it's a pain to setup). Using a ceiling scene with a lamp so it only has 2 different planes of focus rather than 3. Maybe this is not a good enough setup. I can try with the window again on the weekend.

Here's two photos, in between the two I unbolted the whole mount, rotated it 180 and screwed it back on. Note that before this I was playing around moving the sensor so the effect is not the same as the original shots.

Image
Image

poing
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Re: Raspberry Pi Camera Board with CS mount Lens

Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:36 pm

So let me get this straight: You took the first photo, then rotated the board 180 degrees and took the second photo; then rotated the last photo 180 degrees back again in a photo editor (or used the -hf -vf option on the Pi) to present them with the same orientation?

If that's what you did I can see no obvious misalignment.

snazbaz
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Re: Raspberry Pi Camera Board with CS mount Lens

Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:01 pm

I didn't rotate the whole board, just the mount and lense. I already know that rotating the whole board inverts the areas in focus - but if there was something wrong with the lens itself causing the problem rotating the whole thing 180 would cause the same thing to happen.

Now that I've rotated the mount+lense but not the sensor and got the same result, the lens itself has got to be nothing todo with it? - or at least that was my logic!

poing
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Re: Raspberry Pi Camera Board with CS mount Lens

Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:48 pm

That's correct, following your description you ruled out a faulty lens. Good thinking. It wasn't clear from what you wrote though, so I thought you rotated the board with everything fixed to it 180 degrees.

Now to find a way to get the sensor straight behind the lens.

Jay1100
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Re: Raspberry Pi Camera Board with CS mount Lens

Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:18 pm

snazbaz wrote: Now that I've rotated the mount+lense but not the sensor and got the same result, the lens itself has got to be nothing todo with it? - or at least that was my logic!
Thanks Snaz, for doing this research and experimentation and for documenting it and including images. I'm working on some AV software and I plan on including a disk image (with VLC compiled to use the RPi GPU) and instructions for using the RPi as a camera with the software (as one option, along with other options for a couple of relatively low-cost/decent-quality IP cameras, including Ubiquiti and Axis). I was curious about the M12 and CS versions of this unofficial camera board. I would be inclined to go with M12, because of the prolific and inexpensive sources for the lenses for that adapter (since they're used with cell phones and other low-cost consumer devices).

Would it be possible to get a wider perspective than the official Raspicam, but without distortion (the fisheye effect)? Say with something like a 1.2 to 1.6 mm lens? I notice the slight distortion in the lens that came with your CS mount camera and that would be an acceptable amount.

Jay1100
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Re: Raspberry Pi Camera Board with CS mount Lens

Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:38 pm

poing wrote:The difference with the original camera board is that the original lens is screwed into the little plastic blob that holds the sensor where the alignment within the blob is based on factory tolerances. The plastic blob itself is not very well mounted to the green board, with sticky tape I guess. If you then use a different lens the mounting of the plastic blob to the green board suddenly becomes an important issue. Apparently they didn't see this.
Couldn't the designers of the unofficial camera replicate this by using a modified version of the original mount, but without the lens and with the surface of the mount "shaved" away where the lens was originally mounted (to create a wider opening)? This would help replicate the original factory tolerance of the official RPi camera. I was thinking about ordering the M12 version of the unofficial camera, but now, thanks to this thread, I think I'll do what some others have done and just get an M12 mount and adapt it to the official RPi cameras I already have, while still using the original mount without the lens to help maintain the factory tolerances. Does this sound doable to you?

poing
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Re: Raspberry Pi Camera Board with CS mount Lens

Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:25 pm

Jay1100 wrote:Couldn't the designers of the unofficial camera replicate this by using a modified version of the original mount, but without the lens and with the surface of the mount "shaved" away where the lens was originally mounted (to create a wider opening)? This would help replicate the original factory tolerance of the official RPi camera. I was thinking about ordering the M12 version of the unofficial camera, but now, thanks to this thread, I think I'll do what some others have done and just get an M12 mount and adapt it to the official RPi cameras I already have, while still using the original mount without the lens to help maintain the factory tolerances. Does this sound doable to you?
I tried that with a Nikon lens, where I made a hole in a rear lens cap and mounted the plastic blob cold to the cap. That didn't work so I mounted the board with four screws and tiny springs. That enabled me to adjust the board and to get it right.

poing
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Re: Raspberry Pi Camera Board with CS mount Lens

Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:14 pm

BTW, here's a solution to the problem from a company that has a system developed for it. There's a good explanation of the problem after the following link and they basically solve it by applying UV-curing adhesive, then straightening the lens/sensor combination and last curing the adhesive with UV light.
http://www.kasalis.com/active_alignment.html
Note also that the misalignment problem gets worse with shorter focal length lenses.

snazbaz
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Re: Raspberry Pi Camera Board with CS mount Lens

Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:18 pm

So today I have received another pi compatible camera.

Image
IMG_8741 by snazbaz, on Flickr

Initial tests with it looking good, much better than the CS mount one.

mikerr
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Re: Raspberry Pi Camera Board with CS mount Lens

Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:17 am

and then there were 3

The new one (middle) one doesn't seem to have "Raspberry Pi" printed on it so isn't infringing like the others...

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CopterRichie
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Re: Raspberry Pi Camera Board with CS mount Lens

Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:53 am

mikerr wrote:and then there were 3

The new one (middle) one doesn't seem to have "Raspberry Pi" printed on it so isn't infringing like the others...
I have noticed a few other sellers on eBay that have removed or do not have the "Raspberry Pi" from their product. I assume the message is received. :)

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jbeale
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Re: Raspberry Pi Camera Board with CS mount Lens

Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:55 pm

I think it's an indicator of something that there are now China-sourced R-Pi-camera-compatible cameras which are actually more expensive than the official R-Pi camera.
For example the M12-lens-mount version marked CF5647CM-V1 is selling between $45 and $52, including shipping. The official one is around $38 in the US from MCM Electronics including tax+shipping.

From the ebay photos, it also appears that they chose to use the more widely available* flex cable that has contacts exposed on the same side at each ends, not opposite-sides as used with the official board. So it is interchangeable at the cable end going to the R-Pi, but not at the board by itself.

*widely available = Digikey sells it

gordon77
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Re: Raspberry Pi Camera Board with CS mount Lens

Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:02 pm

What chip is the middle one using ? It doesn't to have the same connecting plug as the official one

Gordon77

snazbaz
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Re: Raspberry Pi Camera Board with CS mount Lens

Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:19 pm

The M12 mount one does not have any text printed on it at all.

It doesn't have a small ribbon cable on the board anywhere either.

I'll do some sample pictures on the weekend during the daylight.

I have 2 M12 lenses, the one it came with and a cheap 'wideangle' one I bought seperately.

I bought it from here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CF5647CM-V1-Mod ... 1067610611?

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