Camera module! (And a picture of JamesH)


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by Gert van Loo » Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:19 pm
P1nky wrote:.....
Now I'm starting to wonder if the RPi can handle the camera and a video simultaneously, and can I clone Land Rover's lenticular dual image screen... combined reversing/rear view module, fuel/consumption tracker for me, and a media centre for SWMBO!


I don't understand the "camera and a video simultaneously" bit. Or did you think the camera was only doing still pictures?
It may not be obvious from the camera demos you have seen, as they are photos, but the camera demo shows life video
straight from the camera to the HDMI output in 1080p30! You can make 1080p high definition recordings of driving backwards into objects!
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by P1nky » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:25 pm
Gert van Loo wrote:I don't understand the "camera and a video simultaneously" bit. Or did you think the camera was only doing still pictures?
It may not be obvious from the camera demos you have seen, as they are photos, but the camera demo shows life video straight from the camera to the HDMI output in 1080p30! You can make 1080p high definition recordings of driving backwards into objects!

To clarify (not one of my strongest suits TBH), what I meant was playing a video file while also displaying the camera output. My plan is to emulate the built-in GPS screen from the top-end Land Rover Discovery (described by Top Gear as "witchcraft"). I have built a dual mode screen in a previous (work) project, and so long as you can split the output properly, it is actually pretty simple to do (depending on the value of "simple" ;)
The idea I'm considering is effectively a "vertical interlace", with field 1 having one image (the camera output, possibly with a data overlay), and frame 2 another (video player output). The rather garbled output is then split with a lenticular beamsplitter (the sort of thing used to make those "animated" cards), with field 1 going to the driver's side, and field 2 to the passenger's. Lining up the splitter is likely to be the hardest part, as it needs to be as close to the image plane as possible (ideally as the enclosing surface of the LCD!)
The interlaced stitching should be possible with VLC or similar, but I'm wary about the system overhead of doing this.
Mad, yes, but certainly feasible for less than the cost of a Discovery 3!
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by hpux735 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:27 pm
Having read literally every post in this topic all I can say is "godspeed." I'm impressed with the progress being made and the saint like patience of Jamesh and Gert.

I understand the desires of those that are obviously interested in astrophotography, I am as well. I want to express my opinion that my biggest worry would be that removing the lens would destroy the camera. Like someone else mentioned, if removing the lens were possible (even if it wasn't able to be re-installed) with a possibility of not destroying the sensor, that would be amazing. Even with the two mounting holes in opposite corners would be enough to build a case and adapter for C/CS, T-mount, etc.

Furthermore, where there's a will there's a way. Removing the IR-cut filter should be possible through careful surgery and creative use of solvents. At least, that's the hope. Of course, it would be ideal for the filter to be on the lens assembly, but I think it's in the best interests of the foundation to make the correct decisions with the needs of the many in mind.

One way or another, hats off to the foundation.
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by 6677 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:22 am
Can we have a confirmation of what actually happens with the old TV remote test.
My phone certainly picks up the IR from it.
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by two_sheds » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:26 pm
Very interested in this. Cameras are a good way of introducing interaction with the real world, and this opens up all sorts of potential uses for the Pi, both in the classroom and out of it.

I guess it would be useful to be able to judge the level of demand. Is there someway of officially registering interest / intent to purchase a camera?
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by jamesh » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:09 pm
I don't think you'll need to register interest - we are pretty sure there is a LOT of it already, so the module is going ahead.
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by Mr.Dave » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:24 pm
Someone should build a "Johnny 5" aka "Short Circuit"

"Johnny Pi is Alive ! "
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by hpux735 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:03 pm
6677 wrote:Can we have a confirmation of what actually happens with the old TV remote test.
My phone certainly picks up the IR from it.


The intensity of remote control IR LEDs is so high that the IR Cut filters don't filter it all out. You almost certainly have a filter.
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by 6677 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:41 pm
hpux735 wrote:The intensity of remote control IR LEDs is so high that the IR Cut filters don't filter it all out. You almost certainly have a filter.

Ah, that makes sense. Only things I want to do will involve relatively high intensity IR anyway.
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by magnus67 » Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:28 pm
Interesting module. I would definitively buy it to experiment on if you keep the 14mp sensor. I'm not really interested in a 2-5mp. But i know i might not be the average intended customer. ;)
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by jamesh » Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:09 pm
It's going to be 2592x1944 (5MP). It's sensible compromise between cost and resolution, and yet is still capable of 1080p30 encode.
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by mgg » Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:31 pm
Did I miss it. Would RPi please publish a bit of information on the camera boards chose and in the prototype. I'm looking for a >10Mpixel camera and the RPi and 14M version - would be perfect. I understand their choosing "an affordable" camera for the masses, but why make it difficult for people that want to go beyond "what most people want"?

please share your technical info.
mgg
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by jamesh » Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:37 pm
I'm afraid the tech information about the prototype camera and board isn't available at the moment, and also requires a custom build of the GPU binary blob, so even if you had it would be of almost no use.

Out of interest, what is the reason for requiring >10MP? That a big ask from a mobile phone sensor without a lot of tuning work.
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by Gert van Loo » Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:29 pm
mgg wrote:.......but why make it difficult for people that want to go beyond "what most people want"?
mgg

I find that a rather insensitive remark. I have been making sixteen hour days so you guys can get a camera in three months time.
And no, I don't get paid a penny for all the extra hours. It is all charity.
What do you expect? That we bring out four different camera modules all in the next few weeks, preferable complete with drivers?
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by sduskin » Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:57 pm
Too many people are used to using modules and "plug and play". They are really not that familiar with the amount of effort it takes to develop the 1st module and integrate that module with the core. The subsequent modules are always easier because of the amount of effort expended on the first!

Gert, I applaud your effort and ask that you continue as the work you do is way beyond my knowledge depth.

-Steve.
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by campi » Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:34 pm
Gert van Loo wrote:
mgg wrote:.......but why make it difficult for people that want to go beyond "what most people want"?
mgg

I find that a rather insensitive remark. I have been making sixteen hour days so you guys can get a camera in three months time.
And no, I don't get paid a penny for all the extra hours. It is all charity.
What do you expect? That we bring out four different camera modules all in the next few weeks, preferable complete with drivers?


Gert,

There will always be one ungrateful person - don't let them deflect you from your admirable task - those educated people on here know that the Foundation don't make it difficult for anyone. Quite the contrary, but for the selfless work you and the team have done, we wouldn't even have a Raspberry Pi. This guy hasn't bothered to read earlier/earliest threads on the camera when both you and James laboriously went through the reasoning.

Thank you for everything so far ....... and to come ....... most of us appreciate your work.

Campi

PS - it was his first post too!
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by Miyuki » Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:28 pm
Can't wait for the release version, looks very promising. I've been trying to look for a decent camera with little success for the upcoming WiFi driven RPi and Arduino controlled FPV quadcopter project for which most parts are already incoming within a month. Before that, I should have my RPi before the weekend from Farnell UK.
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by mgg » Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:55 pm
First, I've done my share of microprocessor and controller programming. I'm not asking that you roll out FOUR cameras or even one: a 14Mpixel version (though from my reading a number of people would like one). All I asked was for some technical information. I have no idea it is a mobile phone device. But I can't begin to research the thing just from the images I've managed to see off the web, can I?

I don't want to start from scratch, so the RPi was really interesting, especially since you were prototyping a camera that seemed to be just what I was looking for. Still, I expected to have to do some real programming. If I made any assumption is was that perhaps the smaller camera you were coming out with was just a lower resolution version of the 14Mp - and thus not a stretch for someone to find a way to make the RPi work with it.

Why? I've built a panocam using CHDK and 8 eight pocket cameras. I'd like to build something similar, but with better control over the cameras. So raw Mpixels is important to me. Video isn't, nor is processing time to simply copy the images somewhere. This isn't a weekend project - I'd spend real time and dollars if I chose to head this direction.

If I have any attitude here, it is that I've encountered a number of projects - which encourage people to use there stuff to do all sorts of interesting things - but want to keep all the details close to their vest (including all code, specifications, chip numbers, etc) which makes it difficult to do anything outside "of intended use". I hope RPi, when they aren't so busy will share just enough for those of us that want to use different, but similar cameras, might be able to singly or as a group make something cool with your product.
tnx
mgg
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by jamesh » Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:28 am
It not a question of keeping things close to one's chest - it's all down to what can and cannot be done. If you read this whole thread (yes, I know there is a lot of it, sorry) you will see that a lot of what you ask has been discussed already. But in précis, each camera module needs its own adapter board, driver and tuning. There's not such thing as as standard I/F to mobile phone cameras despite Nokia and Samsung's best efforts. Driver and tuning runs on the GPU, so cannot be done by general public (and certainly isn't an easy job anyway) as they don't have the tools (or the source code!).
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by Norefall » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:44 am
Will there be a camera stabilization done by software in the GPU? Cell phones may not be using this?

Finally, I would like to thank Gert and Jamesh. You guys do a great job!
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by wh1p » Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:11 pm
Hey, James this is mainly aimed at you and the team developing the camera module...(s)?

I would like to know that if there will be a 12Mpixel or higher camera at any point after the 5Mpixel consumer version has been released? i am not expecting that the team work any harder or rush for it but i believe and i am sure many others in this topic that the majority of those looking for current usage of the camera feature are those who for lets say are better off and do not have limited budgets and would love to see a high quality camera which can produce a much better image than the 5Mpixel camera?

so i guess my question is at any point after the release of the 5Mpixel camera will we see a better camera? as i see it the Pi is something which was intended for the learning of coding and has ended up being a product also loved by modders/hackers and other IT enthusiasts and i am sure there are a lot of people willing spend more money to get what they want?

p.s. I do not intent for this message to be seen as insulting to anyone. Rather a question of what the Pi is actually capable of.
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by nazwa28 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:19 am
:shock: Just pretty Amazing what the Pi can do now
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by pygmy_giant » Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:17 am
Thanks in advance for the camera module - I look foreward to seeing it (or it seeing me) at your convenience.

I personally think 5 mega pixels is plenty - thats 5 MILLION pixels - thats a 2236 x 2236 image that more than fills the Pi's screen, which is my reference point.

If you take what's possible as a reference point, we'll all have 25MP cameras in our smart (but soon to look dumb) phones before long.

I personally wouldn't use a £30 computer to process the images of the resolution mentioned elsewhere on this thread, and I wouldn't want a camera module that cost more than the computer I was going to plug it into.

It would be intesting and to the Pi's credit if it could handle 14Mp though...
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by KiwiHelpGeek » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:10 pm
I am very interested in the camera module. It will fit nicely into my overall project for my first Pi, which is a carputer which will play my music through the existing head unit, a true trip computer, since my car uses the voltage from the fuel tank sender to guestimate the range, and a satnav displaying through a 7 inch display.

I intend to use it as one of those crash cameras that record video after a crash or when a button is pressed.Is anyone aware of any existing software that could handle this or will I *GULP* have to come up with something myself.

I would just like to thank Gert, JamesH and all the team for putting in so much effort for the community. Most of us really appreciate your efforts and will try to do yor efforts justice.
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by beautifulsmall » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:47 pm
Before the Pi, I tried a beagle board to do face detection and was overwhelmed with the difficulty, and finaly got a 2-3fps . the other option was the Blackfin BF592 , if you have £2000 for the dev kit ok ! and still not as friendly as the pi. Im looking very much forward to the camera, 5MP more than enough. I hope to be able to help with upping the frame rate at lower res when the interface is functional.
I can see schools , colleges and uni's doing ball and object detection and tracking algorythms with this as a baseline. 3D tracking Stereo from 3pi's and 2 cameras for ~ £100 , wow.
Fantastic work all at pi.
Has anyone asked the olymipc comittee if the shotput can be orange ?
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