Camera module! (And a picture of JamesH)


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by toxibunny » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:50 pm
The camera is an HD video camera - high resolution at 30/60 fps.

Will it still also be able to do the 'standard definition, very high framerate' thing, as someone mentioned sometime..?
note: I may or may not know what I'm talking about...
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by jamesh » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:36 pm
wietzjoubert wrote:
Gert van Loo wrote:
awright2009 wrote:Hey I work for a defense contractor that makes infrared camera modules and we have a project that is supposed to simply give an engineer a worked example of interfacing our camera with hdmi out and a lcd display. I know the Raspberry doesnt have the screen, but do you think this thing could handle our parallel camera interface that outputs 320x240 digital YUV data?

We are currently using the ti814x / am387x, but TI has everything under NDA and we are having major issues simply getting data out from their device. (I think their cortex M3 is either off or hammering the memory bus where we cant change registers we need to)


I need to know a bit more about the parallel camera interface. Width, speed etc. I don't think the Raspberry-Pi system can process the stream. The big question is: do you need the Raspberry-Pi system or are your (future) orders big enough to make your own board which has more pins to connect to. In the latter case you have a very good chance that we can accept your parallel stream.
As alternative you could look at the next chip from Broadcom. I don't know all the details but it that has almost everything the BCM2835 has and more. Among the 'more' is an LCD interface. It is not in the same price class as the BCM2835 though.


Hi, We are doing the same thing. We have also gone the TI DM814x route but without support we cannot continue development. Did you manage to find a solution for Raspberry Pi? Our camera interface is 14 bit parallel, 10 Mhz Pixel clock, 640x512. Can the broadcom processor work for this application?


Had a quick chat with a guy working on parallel cameras and he thinks the next gen chip (BCM11131 I think) can handle that camera - although 14 bit parallel seem an odd number. It was a very brief chat though.
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by jamesh » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:37 pm
toxibunny wrote:The camera is an HD video camera - high resolution at 30/60 fps.

Will it still also be able to do the 'standard definition, very high framerate' thing, as someone mentioned sometime..?


We have had the Videocore up to 120fps on smaller images. Whether we can supply that sort of feature on the Raspi I don't know.

Also 60fps encode won't be possible at 1080p, but maybe at 720p. Almost certainly at SD resolutions.
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by Andreas » Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:23 pm
jamesh wrote: (anyone have an suggestions on what interface/library would work best for JPG capture?). We also need to do some work on the video side as well of course, I guess V4L is most popular there? Other suggestions welcome.


Hi,

you can probably use V4L as the only interface. JPEG frames are supported and there are some brand new V4L controls in the 3.4 kernel for setting compression quality and such. Look up V4L2_CID_JPEG_CLASS in the kernel tree.

I don't know the "correct" method for a user to capture still images with V4L if there is one, but it's obviously possible to start a streaming capture as usual and stop it after the first frame.

Btw, if you're still thinking about features, RAW/Bayer format support (with the denoising disabled) would be really nice. V4L handles this too of course. ;)
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by reggie » Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:47 pm
can you still do longer exposures with that camera james? I know that you said before that you'd managed to get a reasonably long exposure out of it (compared to the 'normal' framerates?).
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by jamesh » Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:51 pm
The demo camera is NOT the one that will be in the final release - so we haven't yet had a chance to try anything out, so I have no idea what the capabilities will be until we get the datasheets and start playing with it.
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by MadCow42 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:49 am
I'm excited to get a hold of one of these! Are there any details on the optics yet? Lens focal length / angle of view / fstop? Lens type, and is it focusable? Glass or plastic?

Thanks if there any details - I was looking to use a USB cam for a development project, but this would be far better!

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by jamesh » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:44 am
I'll find out the specs.
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by MadCow42 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:06 am
jamesh wrote:I'll find out the specs.


Thanks! (The RPi team is awesome BTW, you're building a great community!)
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by jamesh » Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:34 pm
Some basic spec's...

Rolling shutter, 1/4" lens

Resolution 2592x1944

Frame rates: (sensor specs, not necessarily possible on Raspi)
QSVGA 15fps
1080p 30fps
720p 60fps
VGA 90fps

Can support 8-/10 bit raw RGB

Power : approx 100mA at 1.5v

This is a sensor we already have drivers and tuning for, so time to release should be sensible. Still some work involved in making a new board, and getting it all to work in Linux.
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by Norefall » Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:47 pm
Is the datasheet available for this module?
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by jamesh » Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm
I only have a confidential document on the module, so not yet. But tbh, there's not much more in it of use to the end user.
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by toxibunny » Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:06 pm
Interesting, thanks.
note: I may or may not know what I'm talking about...
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by Norefall » Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:11 pm
jamesh wrote:I only have a confidential document on the module, so not yet.

Okey. Just wondering what the Field of View is. Im hoping for a wide angle! :)
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by MadCow42 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:11 pm
Thanks for the update - I can't wait to get my hands on one (many, actually...).

Where's that Futurama "Take my money!" jpg? :)
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by jamesh » Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:21 pm
Norefall wrote:
jamesh wrote:I only have a confidential document on the module, so not yet.

Okey. Just wondering what the Field of View is. Im hoping for a wide angle! :)


Check the sheet - not found anything specific on field of view or F number I'm afraid.
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by MadCow42 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:45 pm
Norefall wrote:Im hoping for a wide angle! :)


Actually, I'm hoping for a lens assembly that's easy to take off and modify/replace. :)

But, for a standard module I agree a wide angle would be most useful - at least for my needs (28mm-35mm equivalent or so). I'm also hoping for a good glass lens.
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by Paul Jurczak » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:22 pm
I have two more suggestions (wishful thinking):

1. If lens assembly is removable (can be destructive), it would be useful to have mounting holes for microlens (M12x0.5) holder. Here are two sources:
http://www.m12lenses.com/M12-Lens-Holders-s/61.htm
http://www.optics-online.com/cmt.asp

2. If there is a way to synchronize frame capture start on multiple image sensors (master/slave or external SOF pulse) for stereo or trinocular vision (2 or 3 RPis would be used), it would help to have a connector or at least solder pads for needed signals.

Paul
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by jamesh » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:30 pm
Please remember this is a cheap as chip camera phone sensor - don't expect miracles! Given the final price will be between $20 and $25 for the board, connector, camera and probably some encode licences, it's not going to be Nokia 808 quality!
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by reggie » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:01 pm
jamesh wrote:The demo camera is NOT the one that will be in the final release - so we haven't yet had a chance to try anything out, so I have no idea what the capabilities will be until we get the datasheets and start playing with it.
Thanks James, I'll wait patiently for you guys to clarify :)
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by Burngate » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:05 am
jamesh wrote:... - don't expect miracles! ...

But we do expect miracles! The RPi is a whole chain of miracles! Why not one more? :P
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by P1nky » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:18 am
Just as a quick query, is there a maximum length that the camera cable can go to? I am in the process of building a system to embed in the car's dash, and was considering adding a reversing camera. I know a USB webcam is an option, but framerate and delay can be an issue in this application.
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by jamesh » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:33 am
P1nky wrote:Just as a quick query, is there a maximum length that the camera cable can go to? I am in the process of building a system to embed in the car's dash, and was considering adding a reversing camera. I know a USB webcam is an option, but framerate and delay can be an issue in this application.


You won't get more than a few centimeters, the interface is very fast and would lose integrity quickly. Options would be either webcam or two Pi's and ethernet the two together.
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by Gert van Loo » Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:11 pm
The camera interface is limited in length. We have tested a 15cm cable which seems to work. That is the on the picture taken on the Cambridge Raspberry-Jam. (We have not done a lot of experiments yet). But I have used the Pi with a 20! meter HDMI cable.
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by P1nky » Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:07 pm
Gert van Loo wrote:The camera interface is limited in length. We have tested a 15cm cable which seems to work. That is the on the picture taken on the Cambridge Raspberry-Jam. (We have not done a lot of experiments yet). But I have used the Pi with a 20! meter HDMI cable.

So I might be better putting the screen and a USB hub in the dash, and mounting the Pi in the boot. In many ways that can be a bonus, as I might be able to interface it with the pressure monitor on the fuel tank (LPG) :)
Now I'm starting to wonder if the RPi can handle the camera and a video simultaneously, and can I clone Land Rover's lenticular dual image screen... combined reversing/rear view module, fuel/consumption tracker for me, and a media centre for SWMBO!
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