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Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:46 pm
by smx
rew wrote:Here is a picture that my raspberry pi camera took of it's own cable and raspberry pi....

Image

This is exactly what I am going for. Please describe your setup and product models.

Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:37 pm
by jamesh
I am completely amazed that that works. Are the images particularly noisy compared to the short cable?

Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:54 pm
by markus3141
I'm wondering whether you are getting frame drops or errors with such a long cable.. USB always has some problems with such long cables and they aren't that high speed, are they?

Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:09 am
by rew
Just a standard ribbon cable. We have a small webshop, and one of the items that doesn't sell much is the 20p ribbon cable with connectors. So we had 4m of bare ribbon cable as "stock" for say up to 20 cables of 20cm. But in this experiment we decided to just pinch a connector on each end and use that....

We improvised the "conversion boards" this time. But within two weeks we'll have the less-improvised boards available. If you want a set (with matching 16p cable) let us know.... (info at bitwizard dot nl)...

Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:35 am
by TarjeiB
This will be alpha and omega for my solar webcam-setup. Hope it shows up in the webshop soon!

Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:43 pm
by cjsm74x
jamesh wrote:I am completely amazed that that works. Are the images particularly noisy compared to the short cable?
Well. if it sounds to good to be true...
Image

Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:58 am
by towolf
cjsm74x wrote:
jamesh wrote:I am completely amazed that that works. Are the images particularly noisy compared to the short cable?
Well. if it sounds to good to be true...
Image
What’s your point? to be sure, the black part under the green part is the connector.

Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:52 am
by cjsm74x
towolf wrote:
cjsm74x wrote:
jamesh wrote:I am completely amazed that that works. Are the images particularly noisy compared to the short cable?
Well. if it sounds to good to be true...
Image
What’s your point? to be sure, the black part under the green part is the connector.
OK,my mistake. I was under the impression that it was the backside of a camera board.

Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:00 am
by sharix
Any news on the cables?

Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:04 am
by RaTTuS
I'd me more concerned for the RPi running on a carpet.

Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:32 pm
by TommyboyNL
The adapter PCBs are in, but we're still waiting on a batch of FPC cables. We expect them to arrive early next week (hopefully monday).
You can already order the board at http://www.bitwizard.nl/catalog/product ... cts_id=146
Don't forget to also order the length of ribbon cable you want: http://www.bitwizard.nl/catalog/product ... cts_id=148

Pictures and documentation will be uploaded ASAP, I'm working on it as we speak.

Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:41 pm
by mlaporta
Hi Folks,
I'm Michele and I'm at my first post in this forum. I'm also interested in this post. Long cable camera it's really useful expecially outside 8-)
sharix wrote:
rew wrote:We've tested about 4m. Works fine. :-)
Pictures coming soon.
Woohoo! :D
What type of cable did you use?
I think is this anyone that can confirm?

Thanks

Michele

Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:11 pm
by mikerr
HAve you tested that PCB/cable with a longer (10min+) video capture, no dropouts ?

Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:08 am
by jbeale
mikerr wrote:HAve you tested that PCB/cable with a longer (10min+) video capture, no dropouts ?
From my experience decoding the RAW camera output, I see that the GPU code includes strong noise reduction. So if the noise pattern from extended cables is single pixel dropouts- even a fairly large number of them- you may never see it in the final output, due to noise reduction algorithms smoothing it out based on neighboring pixels.

Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:35 am
by rkinch
jbeale wrote:So if the noise pattern from extended cables is single pixel dropouts- even a fairly large number of them- you may never see it in the final output, due to noise reduction algorithms smoothing it out based on neighboring pixels.
MIPI CSI-2 goes over this cable, correct? Which is serial digital with no error detection or correction? So it is either going to work or not, and any errors in transmission due to cable/connector problems are going to lock things up. Which seems to be just what happens whenever I touch the camera module wrong. It locks up and the software (raspistill, etc) no longer responds, although Linux is still otherwise running fine. I suppose the driver is written primitively as regards errors and doesn't even reset the camera hardware when starting.

Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:41 am
by towolf
Yeah that’s mildly annoying. Please put it on the list.

Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:23 pm
by TommyboyNL
Good news everyone!
Our missing FPC cables arrived today, and we immediately sent out the first kits!
mlaporta wrote:
sharix wrote:
rew wrote:We've tested about 4m. Works fine. :-)
Pictures coming soon.
Woohoo! :D
What type of cable did you use?
I think is this anyone that can confirm?
That is indeed the cable/kit we designed, tested, and are selling right now!
mikerr wrote:HAve you tested that PCB/cable with a longer (10min+) video capture, no dropouts ?
Something like that. When we first got it working, we played with it for about 15 minutes. I just held the camera module in my hand while filming, and we didn't experience any errors.

Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:53 pm
by badgerpi
Ordered mine earlier today, and have already got email saying it's been despatched...

Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:17 pm
by jamesh
rkinch wrote:
jbeale wrote:So if the noise pattern from extended cables is single pixel dropouts- even a fairly large number of them- you may never see it in the final output, due to noise reduction algorithms smoothing it out based on neighboring pixels.
MIPI CSI-2 goes over this cable, correct? Which is serial digital with no error detection or correction? So it is either going to work or not, and any errors in transmission due to cable/connector problems are going to lock things up. Which seems to be just what happens whenever I touch the camera module wrong. It locks up and the software (raspistill, etc) no longer responds, although Linux is still otherwise running fine. I suppose the driver is written primitively as regards errors and doesn't even reset the camera hardware when starting.
No, don't think it works like that. There is some error recovery I believe, which I think is done in the HW - there is a HW interface layer between the raw CSI and the GPU drivers. This does all the hard work, so the drivers are written to this interface - means we can make simpler camera drivers, and HW layer also insulates between CSi-2, CCP2 etc.

Don't know why your camera locks when you touch it - I've never had that problem. It may be ESD protection kicking in perhaps? Not sure what the sensor has in that area.

Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:28 pm
by gsh
Only issue with the long cable is the EMC noise... The reason the camera connector is so short is because of the EMC... Big cable == more RF noise.

So don't be surprised if you find your WiFi / BT / baby monitor no longer works !

Gordon

Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:40 pm
by dan3008
Perhaps the addition of some shielding around the cable would help?

Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:18 pm
by jbeale
rkinch wrote: Which seems to be just what happens whenever I touch the camera module wrong. It locks up and the software (raspistill, etc) no longer responds, although Linux is still otherwise running fine.
One thing that can cause this is the micro-flex connector "J2" between camera module and camera PCB (visible at upper left in this photo). Several people have reported it being loose, and fixing it by removing and re-installing.
Image

Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:14 pm
by sharix
TommyboyNL: could you post a picture of all the components included in the package?

Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:38 pm
by rkinch
jamesh wrote:Don't know why your camera locks when you touch it - I've never had that problem.
Let me be clear that I'm not faulting the camera module here. By "touch" I mean actually making a lot of clumsy contact with the board conductors while awkwardly hand-holding it on a lab workbench instead of using a proper fixture. I would expect this to interfere with the signaling. One would not do this is a normal application. My points were (1) that this type of interference locks up the camera on the software level, so that something at some abstraction level(s) is not able to recover from noise or dropouts or interruptions in the signals, because only a reboot gets it running again, (2) dodgy cabling that is too long might exhibit the same instability, and (3) the signals are digital, so it is not like the analog pixels are being transmitted and digitized after traversing a long cable, so a longer cable is not going to degrade the images, if the digital signals get through, and if they don't, then one would expect to get lockup or other erratic response, not dropped pixels or other mild degradations.

Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:32 pm
by TommyboyNL
sharix wrote:TommyboyNL: could you post a picture of all the components included in the package?
I will try to do that tomorrow. The pictures are still on the camera, the camera is in my office, and I am at home.