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Gert van Loo
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Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:31 pm

Burngate wrote:Second stupid question: I assume there's no cable compensation in the SoC? - when I last used SDI, just about everything used a receiver with cable-comp built-in, but there it was assumed cable lengths could be up to 100m, and I doubt Broadcom would waste silicon on that
The interface was never build for cables. This was designed for a mobile phone where the maximum distance is about 2/3 inch. So why in heavens name would you add cable compensation? The only reason it would works on long cable is because it is a source-synchronous interface. I think it also only works because we are at 1/4 of the maximum speed ~300MHz instead of the 1.2GHz it can do.

TommyboyNL
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Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:46 am

Gert van Loo wrote:
jbeale wrote:Considering that the MIPI CSI-2 standard is aimed at devices that fit in your pocket, being able to drive some meters of cabling is well outside the design goal, as far as I know. ......
I am astonished if it works. I would need to see a BERR before I believe it (See remark about pixel correction) Even if it works most of the time it is a credit to the engineers from both Broadcom (for building such a high quality receiver) and Omnivision (For building such a high quality transmitter).
We can send you an extension kit so you can measure the BERR and see for yourself it works if you want. If so, please e-mail us at info@bitwizard.nl

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Gert van Loo
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Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:12 pm

We can send you an extension kit so you can measure the BERR and see for yourself it works if you want. ...
We do not have out-of-the-box equipment to test CSI/DSI BERR over a cable. It can be done but requires a lot of work. I don't think my boss is enough interested to give me a few days to set it up and measure it.

matzehali
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Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:13 pm

Hi all,

it's certainly interesting and a cool setup to be able to use 4m cables to connect the camera board to the Pi,

BUT

I would love to separate the camera itself from the camera board (which will be connected regularly to the Pi) and am looking into a possibility of getting about 0.5m of cable between the micro-flex connector "J2" between camera module and camera PCB.
Does anyone know if there are possibilities to order a cable like that, with two connectors which I could just pop on the module board and the PCB?

That would be very interesting!

Thanks,

MatzeHali

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Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:22 pm

You might be pushing your luck with that one. The PCB has the LDO's for power and a oscillator, a long cable (for which it was never designed) may cause problems with the power and the clock signal. I've no idea where you would get the connectors either - and they are tiny SMT components which would make them almost impossible to hand solder.
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rew
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Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:48 pm

Just a normal flatcable. Get it while it's hot! :-)

http://www.bitwizard.nl/catalog/product ... cts_id=146
Check out our raspberry pi addons: https://www.bitwizard.nl/shop/

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alexeames
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Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:26 pm

rew wrote:Just a normal flatcable. Get it while it's hot! :-)

http://www.bitwizard.nl/catalog/product ... cts_id=146
Where do you order the cable? Your kit doesn't appear to include it, and there doesn't seem to be a link to it.
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Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:38 pm

OK. Now that wasn't very intuitive. All I saw was 10cm cable and though "I would want more than 10cm - not gonna click that".
Alex Eames RasPi.TV, RasP.iO

matzehali
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Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:41 am

Hi everyone,

back to the small SMT connector connecting the sensor and the PCB. Does anyone have a picture of it unplugged in a quality so I could find the right connector for it somewhere? Or does anyone know which type of connector that is?

Thanks,

MatzeHali

TommyboyNL
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Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:23 pm

It's a 1mm pitch 15way FPC/FFC connector. That's probably all you need to know :)

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Gert van Loo
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Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:36 pm

TommyboyNL wrote:It's a 1mm pitch 15way FPC/FFC connector. That's probably all you need to know :)
No, that is not enough.
They come in two types and the pins are mirrored if you have the wrong one.

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Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:12 pm

Actually, I think the question was about the connector for the module itself, not the ribbon. Although not sure why anyone would want to know that one unless making a board themselves, which usually means a knock off. Although any Chinese chop shop would certainly have the knowledge to find it out for themselves.
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Gert van Loo
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Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:19 pm

..I think the question was about the connector for the module itself, not the ribbon..
I know, that is what I am talking about: the connector!

You know I DID design the Camera board.... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

TommyboyNL
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Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:37 pm

They should both work, you just have to keep in mind which version you have when hooking up your other electronics and FPC cable (same-side or opposite-side).

matzehali
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Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:32 pm

Hi,

first off: I would like to know because still I'd like to detach the sensor from the PCB (as soon as I get my PiCam) and connect them via a cable which needs to be between 30cm and 50cm long. No chinese chop shop, just a very special need.

I know it's not designed for that but I'm willing to try it out, because if it is working it will solve a bunch of problems.

Asking for the connector is my way of bridging the waiting time, and I might be able to get my hands on those connector parts before I get the cam, so I could try building cables of different length for testing which length is doable as soon as I have the cam. And of course it's much easier to try out by using a cable which just connects with the already in place connectors than soldering the longer cable directly to the boards!

So I'll have a look if I can order those connectors, tomorrow.

Thanks for the info, so far!

MatzeHali

TommyboyNL
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Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:00 pm

Whoops, I was describing the wrong connector! I thought you were talking about the cable between de camera PCB and RPi.
The cable between the sensor and it's PCB has a much, MUCH finer pitch, and maybe more coonections, I don't remember.

matzehali
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Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:57 am

Ahh, ok.
Shame. Can you take a picture of both sides so that I'd be able to find it matching the pictures?
Or Gert, since you did the design, is this a standard part which I can just order somewhere?

Thanks,

MatzeHali

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Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:27 am

You may find a suitable connector here:
http://uk.farnell.com/ffc-fpc

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Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:29 am

matzehali wrote:Hi,

first off: I would like to know because still I'd like to detach the sensor from the PCB (as soon as I get my PiCam) and connect them via a cable which needs to be between 30cm and 50cm long. No chinese chop shop, just a very special need.

I know it's not designed for that but I'm willing to try it out, because if it is working it will solve a bunch of problems.

Asking for the connector is my way of bridging the waiting time, and I might be able to get my hands on those connector parts before I get the cam, so I could try building cables of different length for testing which length is doable as soon as I have the cam. And of course it's much easier to try out by using a cable which just connects with the already in place connectors than soldering the longer cable directly to the boards!

So I'll have a look if I can order those connectors, tomorrow.

Thanks for the info, so far!

MatzeHali
Whilst you may be able to buy the connector, you will still need a PCB to attach it to, since I don't think you can get cables with the connector on. In which case you will find you self with a camera on a PCB very similar to what we have already. If you want to replace the PCB completely, you will need to ensure you have the same or similar components somewhere in the chain as currently on the board - that's LDO's, and a Xtal.
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matzehali
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Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:59 am

Hi,

I don't want to get rid of the PCB. I just need it somewhere else than the camera because it's too big! :D

So, yeah, I would try to attach a cable to two very small boards like the one holding the sensor side connector just big enough for holding the connectors. So I'd end up having an extension cable right between the connectors.

Thanks for the link to farnell, but unless I really know a specific connector type I will never find anything on that huge site with billion parts. :D I can't even compare the visual, because I do not have the camera, yet, and so I'd be just guessing the connector type.

Well, if anyone has any specifics, I'm open to hear them. Thanks so far for all of your help,

MatzeHali

philharlow
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Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:11 pm

Just wanted to post that I ordered the 30cm cable from here

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AlienSpec-CSI ... AQ:GB:1123

And it works perfectly with the pi camera board.

But I like the round cable conversion ffelagund posted even more, can anyone confirm these cables work and know where to buy?

Thanks!

smx
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Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:25 pm

I ordered the following http://www.bitwizard.nl/catalog/product ... s103lvf507 in 120 cm and it just works.

Be aware that the original ribbon cable and the extention set's ribbon cable are very fragile and shouldn't be bent to often.

I lost one of each but also am carrying around a mobile camera that is under heavy stress.

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Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:44 pm

I'm trying to rig up the Pi Camera on a pan/tilt on my robot. So far the stiff ribbon cable is the issue, its just not flexible enough for this purpose. I need a flexible cable solution or I might not be able to use it. :/

Anyone see any slick pan/tilt setups with the Pi camera? How'd they deal with the cable?
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Re: Alternatives or replacements for camera flex cable?

Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:27 am

@TXBDan
I've built a pan/tilt mechanism. I tried two solutions:
* Restrict the movement of the mechanism so it didn't pull on the cable
* Bought a longer cable

Neither are particularly brilliant, although the longer cable was a better solution due to freedom of movement. It does tend to get in the way of the camera sometimes though.

I think the best solution is to mount the *entire* Pi on the mechanism and use a shorter ribbon cable.
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