Chrobry
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Re: Better Camera Replacement?

Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:28 pm

jamesh wrote:The references to 'know better' were more of a catch all to everyone who comments in that way, not specifically aimed at yourself, but all those who say "This is clearly a better thing, and you are stupid not to do it" (yes, we get quite a bit of that). Well, the RPF are not stupid, ...
How did I comment in "that way?" I simply asked a question. Jamesh interpreting my post as saying "this is clearly a better thing, and you are stupid not to do it," was clearly injecting his personal frustrations. His behavior was unprofessional. My question is in writing. Read it. Nobody deserves to be treated this way, especially a paying customer by a paid employee. Jamesh then makes matters worse by double-down on his personal attacks rather than apologizing. He then blames me for not googling it.

I never claimed or even thought "the RPF are stupid." I am a newbie to both digital photography and Raspberry. I learned of the existence of Raspberry only last month. I just learned yesterday that RPF was a charity.

My view was completely the opposite. I believed there were good reasons for not offering swappable lenses and extension cables. And I believed it was likely that RPF is making prudent decisions. I had no reason to believe otherwise. The Pi appears to be popular. I did not know those reasons and simply asked a question to learn why.
jamesh wrote:explain the same things over and over again, when a Google search will more than likely have found the answer.
Please provide a link.

I spent hours searching the internet and the Raspberry forum for answers. I even posted a question about extension cables that went unanswered. These do not sound like questions from a know-it-all.

A better reply to my question would have been to provide a link rather than a personal attack. Or not reply at all. Answering questions "over and over again" is par for the course for this type of support. And I have yet to see where this question was previously asked. jamesh should take responsibility for his unprofessional behavior rather than make excuses and blame others.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Better Camera Replacement?

Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:25 am

Chrobry, I know you are new but lighten up a little.
The poor guy works weekends.
If you follow some of his github stuff you will find a lot comes out over the weekends.
I have never said anything in case he stops ;)

I have been around image sensors for decades, selling them and using them.
The fact that RPF provides us two options at a reasonable price is a big plus.
Not only do they make the hardware they even write the software to support them.
Try getting that type of support from an eBay seller.

So we all want more, big surprise, but RPF is a tiny charity/corporation/company whatever.
Samsung, LG, Leica, Sunny etc can put many more people on to doing this stuff.
RPF is still at the mercy of the sensor market, but it is much better than it used to be.
I have no idea on the number of cameras made but It would be now where near 13M.
10%, 1% of 13Million?
In the case of CMUcam5 it's an NXP LPC4330 (dual-core Cortex M4) on the board. I have no links to them, but I'd be surprised if they'd make a huge jump up to A53s for the next gen.
RPF could do an A53, but it make more sense for CMU to use the A35 cores, i.MX8X is one of the first but I'm not sure if it real yet.

But in the mean time a ZeroCam could be made, image sensor on one side, BCM2835 on the other side with M12 mount.
Bring out USB/GPIO to headers so WiFi daughter board or Ethernet daughter board could be added.
Any software changes would be minor if any and we would get a smart CamPi about 40mm sq.
Sell for? $25-30? that would instantly grab market share.
CMUcam are toys compared to CamPi.

Would it effect the Zero market? I doubt it, RPF cannot make enough Zero's any way :lol:
BCM2835 with sensor on PCB is an extra market that is emerging.
Zero+cam, 3+Cam, early days.
Home Security and what? Choices are CM's with dual cams. Messing about with PCBs.

Sure I would love it to be an low power A35 quad core so I can reuse the Aarch64 and NEON code I will run on the 2/3's.
But that's another toothfairy/Feb29 magic event. with pink fluffy Unicorns?

Can we ask the toothfairy for a monochrome IMX219?
But that's crazy because the sensors have moved on to RGB+IR on one chip.
Image sensors keep evolving, who can keep up or even know if they are real and not market fluff

Rawcam in baremetal is a goal, but I'm allowing years for me to learn enough to get to that stage.
Hopefully by then I won't have to do it all myself :lol:
And I can still use Linux Raspbian or PiCore or........in the meantime.
Possible for some people to rawcam, not this grumpy old hardware guy, yet.
The IP inside the SoC does not belong to Pi Towers.
We hear you, not many SBC makers own the chip IP or even have people who worked on that IP.
Not sure how much of the Videocore IP is still being reused by Broadcom or if they have buried it.
In many cases we would love to open up the full capabilities of the hardware,
Hmm, is that hint there is still more secret stuff inside?
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jamesh
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Re: Better Camera Replacement?

Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:32 am

Chrobry wrote:
jamesh wrote:The references to 'know better' were more of a catch all to everyone who comments in that way, not specifically aimed at yourself, but all those who say "This is clearly a better thing, and you are stupid not to do it" (yes, we get quite a bit of that). Well, the RPF are not stupid, ...
How did I comment in "that way?" I simply asked a question. Jamesh interpreting my post as saying "this is clearly a better thing, and you are stupid not to do it," was clearly injecting his personal frustrations. His behavior was unprofessional. My question is in writing. Read it. Nobody deserves to be treated this way, especially a paying customer by a paid employee. Jamesh then makes matters worse by double-down on his personal attacks rather than apologizing. He then blames me for not googling it.

I never claimed or even thought "the RPF are stupid." I am a newbie to both digital photography and Raspberry. I learned of the existence of Raspberry only last month. I just learned yesterday that RPF was a charity.

My view was completely the opposite. I believed there were good reasons for not offering swappable lenses and extension cables. And I believed it was likely that RPF is making prudent decisions. I had no reason to believe otherwise. The Pi appears to be popular. I did not know those reasons and simply asked a question to learn why.
jamesh wrote:explain the same things over and over again, when a Google search will more than likely have found the answer.
Please provide a link.

I spent hours searching the internet and the Raspberry forum for answers. I even posted a question about extension cables that went unanswered. These do not sound like questions from a know-it-all.

A better reply to my question would have been to provide a link rather than a personal attack. Or not reply at all. Answering questions "over and over again" is par for the course for this type of support. And I have yet to see where this question was previously asked. jamesh should take responsibility for his unprofessional behavior rather than make excuses and blame others.
Clearly I have offended you, I apologise if that is the case.

Some history - I've been helping with these forums for over 5 years (and have been working for the RPF/T for three months, prior to that a volunteer) , and in that time we have had endless people coming on, claiming they know better, calling the PRF idiots for doing this in a certain way, decrying the fact that their wonderful idea isn't being taken up. Most have ended up banned because they simply cannot accept they might be wrong. So its got a bit tedious, and sometimes the mods can get rather frustrated, and over react to posts like yours, which actually is on the milder side. So apologies again. You certainly don't seem to be in the problematic group!
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Please direct all questions to the forum, I do not do support via PM.

XFer012
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Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:17 pm

Re: Better Camera Replacement?

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:27 am

While we are on this topic: for nearly all my devices, I need a different lens vs. the stock one.

No problem with Camera Module v1 since there are so many nice working clones out there, with CS or M12 mounts.
I understand Camera Module v2 clones aren't going to happen because of embedded DRM.

But I see that Camera Module v2 has PCB holes, that may be used to attach (at our own risk, of course) a proper interchangeable lens mount, like M12.
So while not ideal, a solution could be found.

But mechanical schematics for Camera Module V2 are not available yet.
Could RPF post them here on the forum? Please, that may help people who need/want a different lens. :)
This, and hopefully a solution for the ISP lens shading issue
viewtopic.php?p=1141911#p1141911

Thanks a lot

6by9
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Re: Better Camera Replacement?

Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:47 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:RPF could do an A53, but it make more sense for CMU to use the A35 cores, i.MX8X is one of the first but I'm not sure if it real yet.
The cost of designing a new chip is pretty considerable. What level would the A35 board cover that isn't already covered by other Pi chips?
i.MX8 should be very imminent if not already out. I know of people seriously investigating them over a year ago and I think they had dev boards.
Gavinmc42 wrote:But in the mean time a ZeroCam could be made, image sensor on one side, BCM2835 on the other side with M12 mount.
Bring out USB/GPIO to headers so WiFi daughter board or Ethernet daughter board could be added.
Any software changes would be minor if any and we would get a smart CamPi about 40mm sq.
Sell for? $25-30? that would instantly grab market share.
CMUcam are toys compared to CamPi.
Pi camera module is $30 from Adafruit (£25 in the UK). Pi Zero is $5. Something a bit squiffy with your maths if you then think that a combined board would be viable at a lower price than the base components.
Gavinmc42 wrote:Would it effect the Zero market? I doubt it, RPF cannot make enough Zero's any way :lol:
BCM2835 with sensor on PCB is an extra market that is emerging.
Zero+cam, 3+Cam, early days.
Home Security and what? Choices are CM's with dual cams. Messing about with PCBs.
If RS and Farnell won't sell Pi Zero as the margin is too low, what makes you think they'd sell your proposed board? So we're back in the same position as with the Zero.

https://www.adafruit.com/product/3414 ? So we're 65x30 instead of your 40x40, but still pretty small.
Gavinmc42 wrote:Can we ask the toothfairy for a monochrome IMX219?
But that's crazy because the sensors have moved on to RGB+IR on one chip.
Image sensors keep evolving, who can keep up or even know if they are real and not market fluff
Mono sensors should be supported through rawcam already. They are easier to play with as you don't have to worry about Bayer patterns and the like. They do tend to be lower resolution than Bayer sensors though.
RGBW was used by some manufacturers, but I seem to recall that at least Sony reverted to RGGB due to image quality issues. RGB(IR) is a new one on me, and I would have thought a pretty small market.
Half the problem is processing the data efficiently, and that requires SoC manufacturers supporting the weird patterns in the ISP pipe.
Gavinmc42 wrote:Rawcam in baremetal is a goal, but I'm allowing years for me to learn enough to get to that stage.
Hopefully by then I won't have to do it all myself :lol:
And I can still use Linux Raspbian or PiCore or........in the meantime.
Possible for some people to rawcam, not this grumpy old hardware guy, yet.
And that is why I get grumpy. People complain that they can't do xyz, but when you point out that the tools are there they then say "but that's too hard".
Gavinmc42 wrote:
The IP inside the SoC does not belong to Pi Towers.
We hear you, not many SBC makers own the chip IP or even have people who worked on that IP.
Not sure how much of the Videocore IP is still being reused by Broadcom or if they have buried it.
Some. But even if they had totally abandoned it, it still doesn't make it ours to give away.
Gavinmc42 wrote:
In many cases we would love to open up the full capabilities of the hardware,
Hmm, is that hint there is still more secret stuff inside?
Not secret stuff, but I would like to expose more of the ISP functionality. The reality is that I can't reveal the detail due to the potential fall-out on patent infringement - AFAIK there is no infringing hardware in there, but publish loads of documentation and you let the competitors scrutinise it and potentially twist it to their advantage.
Development of the MMAL vc.ril.isp component is ongoing which may offer a middle ground.
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Gavinmc42
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Re: Better Camera Replacement?

Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:35 am

What level would the A35 board cover that isn't already covered by other Pi chips?
Lowest power quad core ARMv8 with NEON. Thinking 5yrs from now when everything is 64bit.
So less power than a Zero, maybe.
Something a bit squiffy with your maths if you then think that a combined board would be viable at a lower price than the base components.
Smaller PCB, more per panel, less parts, no flex cable, no connectors (which can be a bit dodgy), shorter PCB tracks = easier emc, No camera module, bare image sensor on PCB. No lens, they are optional.
Ok $25 is a bit wishful, made for $30? 40x50mm?
I think my figures are some near the ballpark, in the car park?
And that is why I get grumpy. People complain that they can't do xyz, but when you point out that the tools are there they then say "but that's too hard".
I get grumpy when RPF say I can't do it because it's too hard :lol:
How do you eat an elephant?
I have not even decided on the knife and fork yet, watching while others are chewing the hard parts :lol:

Is the ISP totally separate from the VPU/QPUs?
Not much info on this page, nearly everything done by ISP.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... re/camera/

Side detour into other ISP efforts
https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topi ... ti-camera/
Roll my own ISP? Already started chewing on Aarch64 and NEON.
I have reasons for not wanting to use Raspbian or other Linux OS's.

Monochrome sensors are useful for the weird stuff I have on my to do list, but there is a lot on the list, so easier stuff gets done first. 1st tests may even use a USB cam, take acetone and Qtip to a PS3 Eyecam?

Unlike others I have yet to buy any clone Pi's in any form, SBC's or cameras.
Which is why I am a bit pushy about more options, I would like to keep supporting RPF for years.
So if I am describing stuff I would like now, soon or in the future, there is a reason.
Call me old or old fashioned, customer loyalty does still exist in my world.

Blame Eben, I do. It's his fault for making a revolution in the SBC/Vision marketplace.
Now I can do stuff I dreamed about 40 years ago and shelved until the right time.
Some of these dreams are still out of reach, but I can nearly touch them now, maybe that causes impatience?

Vision, sensor stuff etc will one day be open source, will it be on the Pi?
https://opensource.com/life/15/9/axiom- ... era-system
http://www.vision-systems.com/articles/ ... ithms.html
https://www.khronos.org/openkcam
Most have ended up banned because they simply cannot accept they might be wrong.
Ok, zipping it now. Pink Fuffy Unicorn time.
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

jamesh
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Re: Better Camera Replacement?

Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:02 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
What level would the A35 board cover that isn't already covered by other Pi chips?
Lowest power quad core ARMv8 with NEON. Thinking 5yrs from now when everything is 64bit.
So less power than a Zero, maybe.
Something a bit squiffy with your maths if you then think that a combined board would be viable at a lower price than the base components.
Smaller PCB, more per panel, less parts, no flex cable, no connectors (which can be a bit dodgy), shorter PCB tracks = easier emc, No camera module, bare image sensor on PCB. No lens, they are optional.
Ok $25 is a bit wishful, made for $30? 40x50mm?
I think my figures are some near the ballpark, in the car park?
And that is why I get grumpy. People complain that they can't do xyz, but when you point out that the tools are there they then say "but that's too hard".
I get grumpy when RPF say I can't do it because it's too hard :lol:
How do you eat an elephant?
I have not even decided on the knife and fork yet, watching while others are chewing the hard parts :lol:

Is the ISP totally separate from the VPU/QPUs?
Not much info on this page, nearly everything done by ISP.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... re/camera/

Side detour into other ISP efforts
https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topi ... ti-camera/
Roll my own ISP? Already started chewing on Aarch64 and NEON.
I have reasons for not wanting to use Raspbian or other Linux OS's.

Monochrome sensors are useful for the weird stuff I have on my to do list, but there is a lot on the list, so easier stuff gets done first. 1st tests may even use a USB cam, take acetone and Qtip to a PS3 Eyecam?

Unlike others I have yet to buy any clone Pi's in any form, SBC's or cameras.
Which is why I am a bit pushy about more options, I would like to keep supporting RPF for years.
So if I am describing stuff I would like now, soon or in the future, there is a reason.
Call me old or old fashioned, customer loyalty does still exist in my world.

Blame Eben, I do. It's his fault for making a revolution in the SBC/Vision marketplace.
Now I can do stuff I dreamed about 40 years ago and shelved until the right time.
Some of these dreams are still out of reach, but I can nearly touch them now, maybe that causes impatience?

Vision, sensor stuff etc will one day be open source, will it be on the Pi?
https://opensource.com/life/15/9/axiom- ... era-system
http://www.vision-systems.com/articles/ ... ithms.html
https://www.khronos.org/openkcam
Most have ended up banned because they simply cannot accept they might be wrong.
Ok, zipping it now. Pink Fuffy Unicorn time.
Can I ask for less brain dumps and more readable postings please. And try not to repeat yourself.

There is a roadmap here at the RPF. It's a good roadmap for at least the next 5 years. People need to realise that it takes years to add new HW features, so features in the next Pi's are already a year or more into their development. This means that almost everything people suggest is either a) in progress already b) discounted (no benefit) c) going to be put in a more future model once we finish the current one. It's very rare for someone to come up with a feature request that has not already been thought of. In fact, I don't think it has happened in the last 2 or 3 years.

As for cameras and Open Source, who knows if the SW it will ever be open sourced, that is down to Broadcom. But remember, you really don't need the camera ISP to be Open source for the huge majority of use cases. Only really if you want to add new sensors. You already have open source vision with OpenCV.

The ISP is a set of HW blocks for processing image data. These HW blocks are controlled by SW running on the VPU's, and some parts of the AWB are executed on the quads.
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yehat
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Re: Better Camera Replacement?

Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:02 pm

6by9 wrote: Mono sensors should be supported through rawcam already. They are easier to play with as you don't have to worry about Bayer patterns and the like. They do tend to be lower resolution than Bayer sensors though.
What are the prospects of having a mono sensor board implemented by the Foundation? I don't even dare to ask for specs, just a word - "low|medium|high".

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Better Camera Replacement?

Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:15 am

Low :(
Until they announce one :lol:

They are all mono sensors.
It is just that they have an IR film, micro lens and Bayer pattern filter on them.

NOIR has no IR block filter.
Will Acetone dissolve the microlens/bayer pattern?
Or is there a bit of glass in the way? This is mostly in older sensors. CLCC type packages
Backside illuminated sensor, so the circuitry is underneath, harder to damage.
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

yehat
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Re: Better Camera Replacement?

Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:25 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:Low :(
Until they announce one :lol:

They are all mono sensors.
It is just that they have an IR film, micro lens and Bayer pattern filter on them.

NOIR has no IR block filter.
Will Acetone dissolve the microlens/bayer pattern?
Or is there a bit of glass in the way? This is mostly in older sensors. CLCC type packages
Backside illuminated sensor, so the circuitry is underneath, harder to damage.
I guess we all know that all sensors in principle are mono... I certainly ask not just out of curiosity, but really think about the possibilities if the Foundation manages to negotiate a good supply and produces a monochrome sensor ( 1/2" or bigger) board within certain price range (i.e. < $50).
By that time - good luck with the acetone - many have tried that and have destroyed countless sensors in the process.

aembeddeddev
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Re: Better Camera Replacement?

Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:29 am

jamesh wrote:
Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:36 am
Chrobry wrote:
jamesh wrote:So many people think the they know better
My question was not rhetorical. I really wanted to know why. If this comment was directed at me, I definitely do not "know better." I am a newbie just trying to learn, develop a solution to a problem and have some fun. My understanding is that RPF is a UK registered charity with the goal of providing outreach and education. If it is really about commercial profitability, then that's another issue. That's not to say that RPF does not need to be self-sustainable (i.e. it can not sell products at a loss, unless it's subsidized).
jamesh wrote:Things are the way they are for reasons...
When reasons are not given, this comes across as condescending. I would guess most users purchase a Raspberry Pi "to learn, solve problems and have fun." Most are not expecting perfect cutting-edge solutions as expected from Apple. The Pi is about DIY learning and development. Users are modifying the Pi lenses:
http://wiki.raspberrytorte.com/index.ph ... odifcation
Some users may not want to spend the time with the modification mechanics, but rather code pixel vignetting corrections. And soon open source solutions would appear for others to use.

I don't see how my suggestions could be interpreted as being from someone who "thinks they know better." People are swapping out lenses on their own and "spy cameras" are being sold by ArduCam and others. My "quickly implemented" comment might have came across wrong, but I meant quickly in relation to developing a new 1/3" 13mp camera module as the initiator of this topic wanted. The only modification necessary in my suggestions was adding a set screw to the lens holder. And for that I get attacked by an employee of Raspberry.
The references to 'know better' were more of a catch all to everyone who comments in that way, not specifically aimed at yourself, but all those who say "This is clearly a better thing, and you are stupid not to do it" (yes, we get quite a bit of that). Well, the RPF are not stupid, so clearly there is some particular reason why some things are done and some things are not. It not condescending to say things are like that for a reason, but not specify the reason, because that reason is more than likely a commercial reason and needs to remain private. The problem for the mods is that we get a lot of posts on why don't you do this or that, and it gets tremendously frustrating to continually have to explain the same things over and over again, when a Google search will more than likely have found the answer.

With regard to new cameras, it costs a hell of a lot of cash to implement a new camera. 6x9 posted some of the reason why above. The actual HW is cheap to design, but the camera driver and ISP tuning take a LOT of time and therefor money. Because the tuning is fdone on the GPU this is not something that can be done by the community. Lenses are somewhere in between, we are wondering how we might make it possible to expose the ability to create you own vignetting corrections, but so far there are technical and commercial reasons why it has not been done.

We also have limited engineering time, so even good ideas may not be acted upon, simply due to time pressures!
I am tired to see people arguing about cameras in the forum and I am just looking for some useful information for developing something.

In a simple word, your engineerings never make things clear such that lots of your customers, consumers are questing you why you can't make this make that. Haven't seen any post from RPI that make it clear. If you post a new thread like that in my quote, problem solved.

Back to my point here, I am developing custom kernel for rpi compute module with cameras other than pi camera on a custom designed board. I knew the ISP is inside the GPU which is closed source. Is there any way to use arm to process the image signal other than usb? FPS is not a constrain.

The simple answer is no from google, but I want to hear from the engineer who works in rpi. Is there any approach to use third party camera? If it is a commercial issue that you can't provide information about it just say so, I am a worker, need the answer for my work and not going to harm your business.

jamesh
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Re: Better Camera Replacement?

Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:08 pm

Search the forums, there is a thread on raw access to the CSI peripheral, that may to be what you are looking for. It bypasses the ISP, you just get raw Bayer. So fps will be low as you need to do your own processing.

Not sure what to make of your first paragraph, you may need to rephrase it as it makes no sense to me.
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Please direct all questions to the forum, I do not do support via PM.

charleslinquist
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Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:43 pm

12mm Lens adapter for Raspberry pi V2 camera

Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:59 pm

For those who are interested:

I designed a 3D printable 12mm lens adapter for the Raspberry pi V2 camera. It mounts on the 4 screw holes with M2X8 screws and nuts. You will also need a 12mm X 0.5mm tap to make the threads for the lens (available on Ebay). Use really hard material. I used ABS, but PLA would probably be better, because the threads are very fine.

Don't try to cut the threads using a hand-held tap, you will never get them straight! I put the tap in a drill press chuck and hung a weight from the spindle handle to provide constant downward pressure on the tap while I spun the chuck by hand.

Attached is a picture, Note that I have mounted the camera in a printed case that makes it "GoPro" size so it can be mounted in a gimbal.

This forum won't allow .STL files to be uploaded, so if you would like me to send you the file, PM me with your email address.
Attachments
Raspberry Pi Camera with 12mm lens adapter and GoPro size case.jpg
Raspberry Pi Camera with 12mm lens adapter and GoPro size case.jpg (184.73 KiB) Viewed 546 times

Toysrfun
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:10 am

Re: Better Camera Replacement?

Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:29 am

https://www.waveshare.com/w/upload/0/0e ... ual_EN.pdf

Is a link to imx179 wiki in how to use Sony’s imx179 driverless camera with raspberry pi if you want an upgrade to play with. Camera costs around $55-80usd depending where you source it and ELP is a common manufacturer of these cameras. I’ve been doing a lot of research myself for projects we would like to venture at work however despite I have a pi it’s been set aside in the drawer for now and I’ve ventured down Intel’s nuc dev mini pc because it will do everything we want in further developing 3D scanning and control of lasers, IR, depth sensing technology, structured light, etc.., all inclusive sdk, support, hardware, software, etc.., where one unit can be used for all the varying technologies in this arena that we wish to explore and further develop upon while potentially developing a multi 4 in 1 Scänner with ease of utilizing it all in one coordinated system. I wish that raspberry pi was the project board for this and I do believe it could be a good candidate but in weighing the complexities and the over burdened development team it is highly unlikely it will ever meet the needs we would like to see. We have Fabscan who used the pi however due to limitations it will always be the Fabscan pi and limited to Hobby grade abilities and never be developed into a professional aperatus. It’s enough for us to code the application in house but if our programmer (one person) also had to reinvent the firmware it would take two years for what we can do in 3 months using a different platform. So take that in consideration that perhaps the pi isn’t the doall for you even if theoretically it is 100% capable in performing the task on a budget. This is why it is unfortunate that these technologies remain commercially expensive rather than open source expanding budget tiered platforms to conduct a $3,000 task in opening a large market where thousands of people would never spend $3,000 to scan an item. Someday i believe we will get there and it will be because the 75 competitor single board pc’s drive us that direction every few months. What some people fail to consider is that raspberry pi is selling millions of boards and hit the market first. When companies do this they tend to lack development and ride the tidal wave until sales drop and then develop the next easiest board (often similar to a competing board) and than keep riding the same wave. The small competition ends up developing dozens of boards that may very well be twice as powerful, twice as fast, have more features but remember that they stepped in late into the game after pi has become well established and therefore is less recognized and lacks support. This is the fundamental problem when a company gets too big it has a trickle down effect that slows advancement in the industry rather than being that cutting edge project board. As a business person myself this is often the direction that companies go. Frankly it’s the most profitable even for the sake of a not for profit or self funded foundation or establishment. Lastly with all these dev boards out there it is also spreading those capable of advancing the firmwares to thin and don’t forget they have preferences and self interests too.

6by9
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
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Re: Better Camera Replacement?

Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:17 am

I'm totally lost on that post.
I think the only thing I'll say is that USB is pretty limited and has a very heavy overhead so is not the best interface for video. USB2 is limited at a practical 300Mbit/s (theoretical 480Mbit/s), whilst CSI2 can transfer 1Gbit/s per lane, and the Pi exposes 2 lanes.
imx179 appears to be an 8MPix camera, but I'd be surprised if you can get more than 1 or 2 fps at full res out of the board. I'd love to know the output from "v4l2-ctl --list-formats-ext".
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