lucabelluccini
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Re: Google TV or Android OS

Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:19 am

I think Android will run fine on RaspberryPi.
You can check the compatibility here and I can say on the market there are A LOT of devices which are not reaching all those requirements (Huawei Ideos and low cost tablets 100$).
The first step of a test porting would be running the same kernel used in the Android version we want to target.
After that, we can just try to lunch the Dalvik on it, and seeing what happens.
No wifi, no RILD, no Sensors. Just Battery, and we would keep the defaut framebuffer for the video.
If we reach this, we can try to takle each device one by one.

If Ubuntu runs on RaspberryPi, Android can do the same (better).

Feel free to contact me.

HenryG
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Re: Google TV or Android OS

Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:06 pm

A friend of mine has a HTC Magic 32B (528 MHz ARM11 processor, 192 MB ram) running official Android 2.2 (Froyo) quite well. It delays a bit when lauching apps but works reasonabily well otherwise. There are also unnoficial 2.3 (Gingerbread) roms that run fine on this same device.

lucabelluccini
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Re: Google TV or Android OS

Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:31 am

Seems raspberrypi is scared by not supporting latest versions of Android...
I think 2.2 will be running, I'm quite sure of that.

Let me get a raspberry pi SoC and I promise to try to work on it.

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abishur
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Re: Google TV or Android OS

Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:31 pm

Let me get a raspberry pi SoC and I promise to try to work on it.

Just a little while longer and you'll get that chance :P

One thing I was thinking about in favor of the android is that you'd be able to stream Pandora (and netflix?) through their apps, a bit of a hard task with Linux.
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nichobb
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Re: Google TV or Android OS

Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:25 pm

I've an android tablet which I occasionally plug into my TV to watch movies, have to say it's not a great experience trying to navigate.

Also Android software is really limited at the moment in terms of productivity (web based office software only option). Photoshop touch is first hint of decent software being produced.

Having said that if someone wants to spend time doing it good luck and have fun.

simonckenyon
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Re: Google TV or Android OS

Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:55 pm

Quote from Svartalf on September 2, 2011, 22:17
All of your libraries you depend on for function, including what gives you access to the DSP and GPU (which would be REQUIRED for a media player...) would have to be provided with source and re-built as ANDROID NDK libs before you could hope to have something resembling what you're talking to.

It's not worth this much effort. Even for giggles- unless you're one of the worst kinds of technomasochists. You're better off with something like MythTV. The ONLY thing you gain from Android here is the apps- which aren't going to be practical for this application.

some questions and observations about this:

- what advantage do Broadcom think they obtain by keep the DSP/GPU "secret"? i'm sure TI/nVidia have enough IP of their own, without feeling the need to "borrow" from Broadcom. not really expecting an answer.
- as for worth the effort. i suppose it depends on the objectives of the project. if it was about education then having a modest cadre of "Broadcom savvy" developers coming on stream might be relevant. but maybe that is beside the point.
- getting mythtv running on pi is a personal objective. but life is short and my brain is shrinking. accelerated video would be needed.
- running android on pi. i think this has a lot of merit. sure it might be less than ideal, but it would probably be better than running raw linux. thus spreaks an absolutely rabid linux user.

jamesh
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Re: Google TV or Android OS

Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:43 pm

Quote from simonckenyon on November 23, 2011, 16:55
some questions and observations about this:

- what advantage do Broadcom think they obtain by keep the DSP/GPU "secret"? i'm sure TI/nVidia have enough IP of their own, without feeling the need to "borrow" from Broadcom. not really expecting an answer.
- as for worth the effort. i suppose it depends on the objectives of the project. if it was about education then having a modest cadre of "Broadcom savvy" developers coming on stream might be relevant. but maybe that is beside the point.
- getting mythtv running on pi is a personal objective. but life is short and my brain is shrinking. accelerated video would be needed.
- running android on pi. i think this has a lot of merit. sure it might be less than ideal, but it would probably be better than running raw linux. thus spreaks an absolutely rabid linux user.

Although you would have to ask Broadcom for any more detail, there is a lot of really clever stuff in the GPU which means its provides the highest performance to power ratio available (Even Arm asked how we did it - we didn't say). That's worth keeping confidential! There is also the percieved issue with "if people don't know how it works they cannot sue us on some pathetic patent issue that we would win but woudl need to spend a fortune to do so".

MythTV and the like should work eventually. We do intend to provide the ability to encode and decode easily with standard API's. It's not really feasible just providing GPU specs and getting someone else to do it. Would take years to figure it all out. I've taken a quick look at gstreamer, but its a horrible thing to program for (IMO).

I'm not convinced about Android being any better than Linux. Seems like a lot of effort for very little gain. Talking to people who work on Android (on a different chip) the video and camera data paths are pretty horrible, requiring much more copying than really necessary, which does hammer performance unnecessarily - so you can have a really good decode, but the Android layers knacker the performance. It's no panacea.
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Montekuri
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Re: Google TV or Android OS

Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:03 pm

Quote from abishur on November 20, 2011, 20:31
Just a little while longer and you'll get that chance :P
One thing I was thinking about in favor of the android is that you'd be able to stream Pandora (and netflix?) through their apps, a bit of a hard task with Linux.
In my country we have a service similar to Netflix, called NetMovie. And they claim that their videos play in Linux.
They use a technology of video streaming from Ooyala. I have no idea of what kind of technology is it.

Svartalf
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Re: Google TV or Android OS

Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:12 pm

Quote from simonckenyon on November 23, 2011, 16:55
- running android on pi. i think this has a lot of merit. sure it might be less than ideal, but it would probably be better than running raw linux. thus spreaks an absolutely rabid linux user.

Heh...

1) Android is a JVM interpreted application environment sitting on top of Linux. It's not a whole new OS. Not even close. That has it's own consequences. (So why layer it on? Apps? Item 2 kind of kills that line of thought...)
2) Because it's JVM based, there's resource constraints, including the performance of the CPU.

You'll maybe (and I DO mean maybe) see Froyo on the things, so long as you're talking a B model. You won't see Google TV or the like and many of the game apps won't have enough CPU performance to matter, even if they're coded with mostly NDK code. Most of the cool new apps that make it worth trying need Gingerbread or Honeycomb/ICS. I won't tell anyone no. Just going to point out that it's going to be more an intellectual exercise at best.

simonckenyon
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Re: Google TV or Android OS

Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:25 pm

Quote from Svartalf on November 23, 2011, 20:12
Heh...

1) Android is a JVM interpreted application environment sitting on top of Linux. It's not a whole new OS. Not even close. That has it's own consequences. (So why layer it on? Apps? Item 2 kind of kills that line of thought...)
2) Because it's JVM based, there's resource constraints, including the performance of the CPU.

You'll maybe (and I DO mean maybe) see Froyo on the things, so long as you're talking a B model. You won't see Google TV or the like and many of the game apps won't have enough CPU performance to matter, even if they're coded with mostly NDK code. Most of the cool new apps that make it worth trying need Gingerbread or Honeycomb/ICS. I won't tell anyone no. Just going to point out that it's going to be more an intellectual exercise at best.

so what is missing that would have to be added to make it a full OS? anything that you can ssh into and edit files with vi from within a bash sound pretty much like an OS to me.

anyway. that really doesn't have much to do with the topic under discussion. this is an education tool, so performance is not the end all and be all of everything. ease of use is important.

why i would suggest android is that it has a well defined toolchain, a well defined UI and it is ubiquitous.

Josh
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Re: Google TV or Android OS

Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:24 am

NEITHER.
Android is becoming over-bloated crap.
Google TV is just bad anyway...

tufty
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Re: Google TV or Android OS

Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:44 am

Quote from simonckenyon on November 23, 2011, 23:25
so what is missing that would have to be added to make it a full OS? anything that you can ssh into and edit files with vi from within a bash sound pretty much like an OS to me.
Android already is a full OS. It inherits that from the Linux core it sits on. The Android environment is, more or less, and modulo the odd kernel tweak here and there, merely a user interface and software API layer, rather like X and associated libraries.

Leaving aside that it's a big, bloated pile of "Java^H^H^H^HDalvik" with massive hardware requirements, the main issues, as I see them, are:

- It leaves an awful lot to be desired as a general purpose computing platform. I say this as someone who has an Android based tablet. The "well defined UI" is fine as a front end to a smartphone, and later versions approach "acceptable" for tablet devices, but it's aimed at consumption of pre-packaged media and delivery of advertising. there's an awful lot of things that are, quite frankly, just plain wrong with Android as a general purpose OS, and I could witter on about them for hours.

Let's just look at what's wrong with Android when applied to a device that's intended as a low-cost tool for kids to learn programming:

- It restricts what you can easily do in terms of programming to, at best, languages that target the Java^H^H^H^HDalvik VM. Sure, you can go "under the hood" with "C" (assuming you can find documentation for what you can do, Android-wise), or any other language that requires merely libc, but at that point the whole Android runtime environment is superfluous.

- Programming Android, using its "well defined toolchain" require another, heavy duty and expensive computing device as the development host. You can't do it "on device" without a significant amount of work developing an Android UI for programming. That also goes for any other language you might want to implement under the hood.

So, if we assume that Android can be shoehorned on to the Pi, and totally ignoring performance issues, the choice basically comes down to whether you want to be able to develop on the device or not.

iamnull
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Re: Google TV or Android OS

Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:33 am

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Chromium OS. I'm not entirely sure of the running requirements, but it can be built for ARM architecture.

http://www.chromium.org/chromi.....quirements

jamesh
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Re: Google TV or Android OS

Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:45 am

Chromium OS doesn't really tick the boxes as a development environment. As Android doesn't. Its a cloud based system which need to be permanently online, has no local storage (so no local compiles etc). So not really suitable for the Raspi main purpose.

On the other hand, it *might* work, and would be good as a thin client OS in an office environment.
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kernelsandirs
Posts: 5
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Re: Google TV or Android OS

Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:45 pm

So now that google is officially supporting googleTV on ARM do you think it is a possibility that those crazy guys over there on XDA could make this a reality on RasPi, I know GTV is honeycomb currently but I would imagine it could run as long as the kernel can support the ARM11(6) proc.

http://www.slashgear.com/googl.....-05206310/

ArgentsQuest
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Re: Google TV or Android OS

Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:07 pm

Best just sticking with Linux, it's the only OS that will have hardware acceleration support.

Any other OS will be handicapped by having the CPU having to do everything.  Porting other OS's to the PI is a waste of time unless it's for learning purposes in my opinion.

kernelsandirs
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Re: Google TV or Android OS

Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:10 pm

Well Android or GTV will give us DRM support for Netflix etc...

aperry
Posts: 60
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Re: Google TV or Android OS

Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:41 pm

I had a Logitech Revue for a couple of weeks (before returning it).  During that time I played around with the Honeycom-based beta firmwares.  While it was rough around the edges and Logitech's media player software was terrible, I could see a lot of potential.  I've used a lot of these devices (Boxee Box, WDTV Live, BrightView, AppleTV2 w/XBMC, Windows Media Center).  Anyway, apparently Honeycomb has been officially released in the form of Google TV 2.0 and Plex is now available as an installable app.

Yesterday I noticed this little beauty which immediately made me think "this would be a great RaspberryPi project!":

http://www.engadget.com/2012/0.....-tv-video/

I think I read that Raspi can't be powered off of USB, but that's not a big deal IMO.  The idea of a truly portable media streamer seems great.

By the way, is there any recent info on what the XBMC team has been able to do with Raspi?  I remember reading that they were working on it, but haven't been able to find any videos or screenshots.

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Paul Webster
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Re: Google TV or Android OS

Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:21 pm

Re XBMC and RPi ... see this recent thread, it includes video.
http://www.raspberrypi.org/for.....38;ret=all

aperry
Posts: 60
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Re: Google TV or Android OS

Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:21 am

Paul Webster said:


Re XBMC and RPi ... see this recent thread, it includes video.
http://www.raspberrypi.org/for.....38;ret=all



Wow, can't believe I missed that!  Awesome

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