alpaca
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Re: why not use the wiki?

Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:37 pm

Hey fellow forumites,

I've been lurking here for a while, and I must say I am impressed by the activity and enthusiasm of the community.

What I also see, is that there are a lot of questions that are asked and answered and asked again and answered again and asked again and so on. The thing I'm saying here, is that there is a big need for a central place where we can point people to, so the forum can be used for more innovative and higher level discussions, instead of telling people for the zillionth time that there is no VGA connection on the pi.

And there is already such a facility in place: the wiki. But scarcely used, and scarcely updated, and badly structured (all info is dumped in one big page, not the intended click-trough system that's so well implemented in the mother of all wikis, wikipedia)

So this is a call, for either reasons this is not a good idea, or otherwise, to begin creating a decent wiki, that can expand to a real reference later on, for pupils, teachers, developers and hobbyists alike.

Pi Face
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Re: why not use the wiki?

Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:45 pm

I agree with you about the questions being asked over and over again but most of the time the person asking is being very lazy.

There is a FAQ http://www.raspberrypi.org/faqs and a Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.....spberry_Pi

I'm sure these will both improve as the product matures.

alpaca
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Re: why not use the wiki?

Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:52 pm

Yeah, but the FAQ is too big, too few people are going to read it trough (and it is never pointed to neither)

And the wiki is one big block of information, some way to general, some outdated. So just putting some structure in it can go a long way to being able to link people to the relevant page, without having them plough trough a heap of irrelevant info (for their specific question)

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liz
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Re: why not use the wiki?

Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:53 pm

The Wiki is strictly a community project; the Foundation does not update it (we are short on time and people, and we really need community support on it).

It would be really, really helpful if any of you takes some work on the Wiki on. We really need community help here; right now we can see it's not looking in the greatest shape, but we know that if a number of you all do a small amount each on it, it'll be improved enormously.
Director of Communications, Raspberry Pi

alpaca
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Re: why not use the wiki?

Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:55 pm

Aha, I was not aware of the wiki not being foundation stuff.

Ok, I shall take up some of the work in the wiki, trying to bring some structure in it (if I can acces the needed privileges)

Any help is welcome.

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liz
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Re: why not use the wiki?

Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:56 pm

Thank you so much - we really appreciate it!
Director of Communications, Raspberry Pi

spamel
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Re: why not use the wiki?

Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:54 pm

I would help, hut not sure I know enough about the RasPi or general computing to enable me to he of any real benefit. I can certainly proof read and check for spelling/typos so long as I don"t use my Galaxy Tab as touchscreens leave you making more mistakes IMO!

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Jessie
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Re: why not use the wiki?

Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:09 pm

alpaca said:


Yeah, but the FAQ is too big, too few people are going to read it trough (and it is never pointed to neither)

And the wiki is one big block of information, some way to general, some outdated. So just putting some structure in it can go a long way to being able to link people to the relevant page, without having them plough trough a heap of irrelevant info (for their specific question)



What do you mean it is never pointed to?  I'm not sure I understand, there are plenty of links to it.  Plus there is big FAQ link in the top nav bar.

People arn't going to read through it because they are lazy not because it is too big.  I don't understand the rationale here so we should make it smaller with less info and then people will have no choice but to ask these redunant questions in the forum?  At least if everything is there we can tell people go read the FAQ.  Some stuff needs updating in there but that is just how things go when your priorities are getting a product to market.  I guess we could seporate it into bold headlines and link to pages about each topic, but I don't think that will make people read anything.  The reality here is that some people read the fact and some don't.  It is just some people's nature to do what is easiest for them even if it frustrates others.

Ok on to the Wiki, yes it needs some work, but they can link to the relevant information with the links in the contents up at the top of the page.  I have added quite a bit to that Wiki and I can tell you it still needs a lot.  I try to get in there an add information whenever I see a question being asked too often in the forums here.  Again all this has more to do with people's nature than the Wiki itself, some like get informed and look like they are on the ball, and others will risk looking like a dolt to save 5 or 10 min to browse the Wiki and the Faq.

alpaca
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Re: why not use the wiki?

Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:36 pm

What I mean is that I encounter very few treads handling subjects covered in the FAQ, where the standard answer is 'here is the FAQ, it's in there'.

And what I mean by saying the FAQ is too big; It is a jumble of things thrown together. at least a few subsections should be made (on the same page is fine) so you can quickly find what you need. People are, as you truthfully remark, lazy. But I think most of them throw first a quick look at the FAQ but are overwhelmed and don't care to read it trough.

The wiki suffers from the same fate. There at least is an index, provided by the wiki system itself. But for someone searching for ways to connect a sensor to the Rpi, there is no useful entry-level information. For example: I know something about sensors and electronics, but before reading this forum, I didn't know the concept of a GPIO-pin. I suspected that something like that existed, but I never knew the name. So a wiki-entry with the pinouts and no mention of ways to control them (drivers etc) was/is of no use for me. And I certainly coudn't be bothered to read trough walls of text until I found something that hinted at being electronics.

I also understand the FAQ is not really a priority right now, but about the wiki, we can at least do something about it with this community.

And now this has become a wall of text. I am sorry for that.

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Mezo
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Re: why not use the wiki?

Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:16 pm

Jesse you comment about the bold text linking is the way most Wiki`s are, that's how i read a Wiki. When i need to know something in great detail i click on the bold text & a whole Wiki page jumps out on that subject with yet more links in bold texts to more pages (good structure).

Im sure over time when everything settles down a bit the Wiki will get written in more detail, it has to or the forum will just get clogged with the same old questions being asked time & time again.

Give it six months & once everyone has had a chance to play & experiment with the Pi`s then start a fresh, same goes for this forum (scratching of needle) screeechh.

Start over, dump all the useless post/subjects and start a fresh, in fact id dump the whole forum personally and start that over. Id certainly arrange a section which is more suitable for kids/students & have another section for kids in there 40`s (like me) where adults can be adults, possibly an over 18`s forum?

This is where a good Wiki comes in to play, both sections of a forum (young & old) can access the relevant info without treading on each others toes. But having a forum for all age groups is going to be a problem i think.

Lot of work ahead, id love to help but im flat tack with my own forum & learning new skills.

Mezo.

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cnxsoft
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Re: why not use the wiki?

Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:03 am

A bit off-topic, but when we load the FAQ it looks like there is really a lot of info (like too much info), but that's because of the 1,713 comments in the FAQ. The useful text is only 4 pages long (which is good), it might be a good idea to disable comments on that particular page or only display the last 10 comments (This is usually configurable in WordPress).

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meltwater
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Re: why not use the wiki?

Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:25 am

There"s not much point updating the wiki when we don"t have R-Pi"s, but hopefully it"ll come.  It"s catch 22 really, since no-one will look at the wiki until it has good info in and no-one will update it while no-one will look at it…

Ok…there is still plenty that can be done, and we can do it.  I'm more than happy to help add bits where I can.

Still very early days.

People do need to be brave and update the wiki (anyone can register and do it) when they do see something which isn"t right, it"s the best way for it to work.  Perhaps as mentioned split it a little for kids, for beginners and more advanced stuff so that it is easy for people to find things and for others to find suitable places to put their projects.

If anyone has any clear ideas on ways to split it/structure it, then just try it out and put a test page on there and post the link, that way we can build it and discuss it as we go.

I tend to agree about the forum too, perhaps push it into an archive section (so it can be referenced and searched) but a lot will be outdated and incorrect, plus a lot is just thoughts and plans while people are waiting.

Ideally, the important information can be pulled into the wiki anyway if people want to keep it, personally a well structured forum thread linked to an active wiki project page should work well, although we would need ability to edit old posts.

Finally...it needs diagrams and images badly!
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alpaca
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Re: why not use the wiki?

Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:33 pm

Ok, I started a more structured version of the wiki.

http://elinux.org/RaspberryPi is the first page.

Please, comments and contributions!

alpaca
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Re: why not use the wiki?

Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:48 pm

Also, Liz, I emailed you, I'm going to use the diagram in the FAQ in the wiki. As the project is open source and all, I recon it won't be any problem. If so, please let me know asap and I'll find something else.

Also, the picture of the auctioned Rpi.

edit: Liz starts with a capital, of course.

jamesh
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Re: why not use the wiki?

Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:10 pm

alpaca said:


Also, Liz, I emailed you, I"m going to use the diagram in the FAQ in the wiki. As the project is open source and all, I recon it won"t be any problem. If so, please let me know asap and I"ll find something else.

Also, the picture of the auctioned Rpi.

edit: Liz starts with a capital, of course.


Actually, Liz starts with 'Her Ladyship', if you know what's good for you.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed. Here's an example...
“I own the world’s worst thesaurus. Not only is it awful, it’s awful."

alpaca
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Re: why not use the wiki?

Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:15 pm

Too late to edit now. I shall keep that in mind next time I need to search HLL's (Her Ladyship Liz) advice.

Also, I've thrown in some pictures. (only the two mentioned). It looks pretty now. A bit barren still, but anyone can help!

http://elinux.org/RaspberryPi

also: 10+11, the highest sum I got until now!

alpaca
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Re: why not use the wiki?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:27 pm

Ok, I redid the Wiki. It's much more logical, cut into pieces like that. Any help fleshing is welcome!




http://elinux.org/RaspberryPiBoard

also: look at that: 12 + 12

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grumpyoldgit
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Re: why not use the wiki?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:36 pm

A quick peruse. looks great.

A couple of points.


The forum FAQ (whatever that is) link does not work.
I'm not sure about the postage. P&P is more than the cost of the stamp. Quoting £2.05 for posting to New Zealand may be a bit misleading.

alpaca
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Re: why not use the wiki?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:46 pm

ok, threw both of them out, remands of older entrys, tnx for looking

hippy
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Re: why not use the wiki?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:09 pm

"Expansion boards (shields)"

It might be a good idea to find an alternative name for R-Pi expansion boards as "shield" brings a lot of preconceived notions ( size, format, pinout ) from the Arduino world which is not applicable to the R-Pi.

hippy
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Re: why not use the wiki?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:19 pm

Power ratings should also be updated. I'd also change that to "power consumption".

From the GPIO page; "Maximum permitted current draw from the 5v pin is the USB input current (usually 1A) minus any current draw from the rest of the board, or about 650 mA", so that's saying the board consumes about 350mA, and 5V x 350mA = 1.75W.

Not sure if that's Model A or B.

stevescat
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Re: why not use the wiki?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:32 pm

Not sure if this is a temporary problem, but unable to enlarge the the Rpi beta board (Model B) photo.

When clicked get:

Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 67108864 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 4032 bytes) in /var/www/elinux.org/includes/media/Bitmap.php on line 213

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grumpyoldgit
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Re: why not use the wiki?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:39 pm

Agreed. I get the same message.

alpaca
Posts: 29
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Re: why not use the wiki?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:52 pm

Thank you for having a look.

@hippy: The pages you looked at where some kind of draft I made before chopping up the main wiki page. I put redirects there now, so what you'll see now is the 'Real wiki'. Your comment about the power pins is still valid however(you can interpret the sentence in two ways). I changed it.

@stevescat & Grumpyoldgit: Same message, no clue what it could be. The image is 615kb, so much smaller than the maximum of 20mb the wiki imposes upon us.

Any more comments are welcome (or even better, you can always implement them yourself in the wiki:-)

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Vindicator
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Re: why not use the wiki?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:20 pm

Minor error on the power rating


Board A: 5V, 500 mA (2.5W) without any devices connected
Board B: 5V, 700 mA (2.5W) without any devices connected

The 700 mA should be 3.5W

Looks alot better though
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