bradburts
Posts: 341
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:07 am

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:43 pm

@pupil & MG2R

I don't know why you cannot host 24/7 but maybe you could redirect from your simple ISP HTML only website to your home server. Display something if you are down otherwise load. Just a thought, not sure how though.

Wordpress is not just for blogs. The great thing about Wordpress is that your gran can make a website in seconds. OK I may be telling a fib.
Learn a little PHP coding (or download one of the many styles or apps) and you can make yourself a unique site.
There are other options of course, some of which I would consider 'better', but if you are just starting out then its hard to beat the ease of use that Wordpress gives.

PS
'I've already got a case' will appear on your grave stone ;)

MG2R
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:56 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:53 pm

Pupil160 said that he couldn't host 24/7 because of possible power outages or something like that... I am currently hosting 24/7 with my file/web/ftp/bittorrent/"everything I can possibly imagine" server (look at it here), but my upload speed of 512 kbps is simply not enough to host a website to the public.

Also, I prefer to do all HTML/CSS/PHP/MySQL coding myself, even if that means learning it all (which I will starting next year in school :D), instead of relying on a program to do it for me. But that's just a personal preference of course.

mobeyduck
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:39 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:00 pm

Quote from walney on December 19, 2011, 20:35
2 things:


(sorry to be the constant harbinger of doom)

Its good that you do, someone's got to ;)

For the cable, making/adding the connector your self isn't all that hard, but you need to check twice and more to see if all the cables hit then end of the connector and that the sleeve of the cable (white plastic thingie around the cable) has a part inside it and you don't see the lose small cables, then you get a good cable.

You will need a crimper for the rj45 connector if you use it more you can get a cable tester like from this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Netw.....4ab1dc6c12
looked up a single crimper http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RJ45.....43a97fd5c7
and some more connectors http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20-x.....43a1d0eb60

Then you can make a long cable to get to your computer room and a short one for the pi next to your router

@MG2R
I liek the look of your k'nex case but it hasn't got the good things from a normal case like sound and dust, especially the dust, haven you thought of closing it?

bradburts
Posts: 341
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:07 am

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:04 pm

Great pictures.
Whats the case made of?

Power outages shouldn't be too much of a problem, not great but then hosting is not cheap.
512kbps is not great. Can you nobble your wireless and see what that loads like?

Glab to see that you want to understand the structure of the tools you may end up using.
You can still write HTML and learn MySQL with Wordpress BTW. Just get a lot of the basic stuff done for you. No harm in learning it all though.
Either way good luck!

BTW What year of school are they teaching PHP/MySQL in?

MG2R
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:56 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:12 pm

Quote from bradburts on December 19, 2011, 21:04
Great pictures.
Whats the case made of?

The case is made out of K'nex

Quote from bradburts on December 19, 2011, 21:04
Can you nobble your wireless and see what that loads like?

Hmmmm... My English isn't adequate to fully understand your question. Could you rephrase it, please?

Quote from bradburts on December 19, 2011, 21:04
You can still write HTML and learn MySQL with Wordpress BTW. Just get a lot of the basic stuff done for you. No harm in learning it all though.
Either way good luck!

Is WordPress something like Adobe Dreamweaver? I use Dreamweaver for all my website developing.

Quote from bradburts on December 19, 2011, 21:04
BTW What year of school are they teaching PHP/MySQL in?

I'm a student Industrial Sciences in Belgium. I'm majoring in Electronics/ICT. I'm in my second year now and my education should take up four years if I don't fail any of my years.

pupil160
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:10 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:30 pm

I do not have an internet cap at all, the ethernt cable was just for conveniene.
The tumblr idea is just a quick throw together, if it works, great. If not, I will find something different.

pupil160
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:10 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:34 pm

I still intend to host my own site, just not for everyone. My web server will still be built to share my stuff. For me and my friends only

MG2R
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:56 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:36 pm

Quote from pupil160 on December 19, 2011, 21:34
I still intend to host my own site, just not for everyone. My web server will still be built to share my stuff. For me and my friends only

Same use as mine. Good luck with it! If you need any help, feel free to ask! I'd love to support :)

bradburts
Posts: 341
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:07 am

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:36 pm

nobble -> degrade, reduce performance
So could you reduce the settings on your wifi router and simulate 500Kbps?
I don't think it will be too bad unless you have too many pictures (possibly any)

Wordpress can be used like Adobe Dreamweaver.
Its really a content management system though, a database of content presented through various style windows.
You can simply write content and use standard views to present the content or (& this is more fun) you can program your own style presentations.
It all runs on through a database, the PHP code just figures out how to display each element of your page. Like a dynamic CSS if you like.

Good luck with your studies!

MG2R
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:56 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:44 pm

Quote from bradburts on December 19, 2011, 21:36
nobble -> degrade, reduce performance
So could you reduce the settings on your wifi router and simulate 500Kbps?
I don't think it will be too bad unless you have too many pictures (possibly any)


Why would I simulate 500 kbps? I know how slow it is ;)
Just flat text loads at an acceptable speed, but throw one picture in there and you're overloading the connection... On top of that: when my upload is fully used, I can't browse the web anymore ;)

pvgb
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:53 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:52 pm

Quote from pupil160 on December 19, 2011, 20:21
I've already got the case

Is that the shuttle case on the e-bay page ? ( Always liked the look, never could afford one)
Plenty of room in there, plus it looks like there is a PSU in it. Some nice person will doubtless tell us how to run a Pi off a Molex connector. ( power to disk drive connection )

I had originally assumed you wanted quiet, one of the major reasons for going with passive cooling.
Now I realise it is cost, I would suggest that initially you only need the processor board and memory card to go in the case, plus any cable.

I have been running a ( admittedly personal ) website on a small ARM board for well over a year ( Actually had it at ~340 days uptime when the PSU decided to let go )

As chance would have it I am running Wordpress on it - needs MySQL ( or similar ) and PHP installed (and Apache) .
My advice is to do the 5 minute install (http://codex.wordpress.org/Ins.....te_Install) rather than the package manager (Aptitude, apt-get) installs.
All runs happily off a 4G card.

If you need to add a HDD, then you can do so later.

Wordpress has become a capable CMS (Content Management System ) from its beginning as a blogging tool. Lots of add-ons, lots of free themes to experiment with. Good fun.

There are a lot of factors that determine the performance of a web server, bandwidth, memory, CPU speed - it is almost impossible to foresee how many simultaneous connections will be possible - if it gets a bit overloaded then the MaxClients directive can be used to calm things down.

pupil160
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:10 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:04 pm

I do not NEED an Ethernet cable, it would just be for convenience.

MG2R
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:56 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:06 pm

Quote from pvgb on December 19, 2011, 21:52
Some nice person will doubtless tell us how to run a Pi off a Molex connector.


Easy.

Step 1
Use a side cutter to cut RED and one of the BLACK wires on the molex connector.

Step 2
Cut a USB==>micro-USB cable in two.

Step 3
Solder the red wire from the PSU to the red wire inside the micro-USB cable . Do the same thing for both black wires. After that, cut away the two remaining wire inside the micro-USB cable (these are for data, but are unused by the pi's power socket)

The only thing left to do now, is getting the PSU to start up without a motherboard connected to it. This can be done by connecting the GREEN wire with a BLACK wire on the 24 pin ATX connector.

If you want to be able to easily shut down your psu: open it up and solder a switch between the power cable connector and the PCB.

--EDIT--
I'm going to post this as a separate thread too ;)
see here

bradburts
Posts: 341
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:07 am

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:07 pm

Well said.

I would keep clear of a cheap case's PSU.
It will probably be noisy & will likely be very inefficient at low loads.
My Atom server ran at 36W until I replaced the PSU. 4W when off!
Now runs at 25W, 18W if I spin the disks down. 1.5W when off.

Probably best to stick with a USB plug and the hard drive PSU.
The solid bricks are usually very good, no noise anyway.

If you want to play with molex connectors then RED is +5V, BLACK GND, YELLOW +12V.
RED & YELLOW is 7V, which is good for quite fans.

pupil160
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:10 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:19 pm

I not using any PSU in the case, all the adapters I am buying and have bought have meant that I do not need a PSU.

Ta, M2GR

Not really sure how to use that information..... But thanks anyway

pupil160
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:10 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:22 pm

Oh. just to clarify, the HDD will not be on all the time, just for the "Occasional Backup*"

*I.E once a night, Via a timer

MG2R
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:56 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:22 pm

pvgb asked for it, I provided :)

bradburts
Posts: 341
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:07 am

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:23 pm

MG2R's answer is more complete than mine :)

To clarify some english; do not open up an ATX PSU. Inside lies death and damnation even if it is switched off, death if you are lucky.
I know MG2R did not say that but it is possible to read the post that way.

Instead wire the switch between the GREEN and BLACK pins on the 24 pin connector as posted.
These PSUs are protected and every thing on the wires comming out of the PSU has a nice safe low voltage.
Try running a fan at low speed first if your worried.

pvgb
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:53 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:26 pm

Quote from pupil160 on December 19, 2011, 22:04
I do not NEED an Ethernet cable, it would just be for convenience.

I actually keep a (long) Ethernet cable in the house just for emergencies. ( Never did trust this wireless networking lark. )
Of course, my last router failed when the wired switch part failed - wireless was working fine ...


pvgb
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:53 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:31 pm

Quote from MG2R on December 19, 2011, 22:22
pvgb asked for it, I provided :)


Much appreciated.

Adds the option of powering multiple boards ( would that be Pi squared ? ) from one PSU.

bradburts
Posts: 341
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:07 am

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:49 pm

The PSU may have lethal charge stored in the capacitors & coils for a long time after being switched off. I wouldn't do it or suggest in open forum.

If you use the 24 pin ATX then you can simly use the On/Off jumpers on your mobo. Usually bottom left. EDIT RIGHT! I need sleep.
If you do not use the 24 pin ATX then you can simply use the pins.

Using the 5Vsb is a neat idea, as you say you never turn the PSU on! No noise!
Brilliant.

User avatar
walney
Posts: 233
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Contact: Website

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:49 pm

Quote from MG2R on December 19, 2011, 22:37
What's wrong with opening up a PSU? I have survived that many times before :) (just make sure the power cable is unplugged!)

Answer: big assed capacitors - keeping it unplugged isn't going to help. And I doubt if his mum & dad will be any too pleased.

jazz
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:04 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:12 pm

The caps are on the DC side of the PSU so even if they are charged, they won't have a voltage of over 20 volts.
well... not only on the DC side. Especially in modern supplies, there are two DC sides. One primary and one secondary. The AC from the wall plug is rectified and then DC-DC converted to the required output voltages. (This is to keep the efficiency high and the wattless current low [and within fcc specs, iirc]). The primary DC stage has quite big caps charged to well over a hundred volts. Nothing to play with - but with proper precautions taken - nothing that instantly kills you when opening the PSU. One way would be to short the caps with a screwdriver with proper isolation on the handle.

MG2R
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:56 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:17 pm

Quote from jazz on December 19, 2011, 23:12
. One way would be to short the caps with a screwdriver with proper isolation on the handle.

Wanted to say that in my previous post, but tought I would just get ridiculed ("you don't create short circuits!")...

Anyways, when you're putting a switch between te AC socket and the PCB and some connectors between +5V/+12V/GND and the PCB, you shouldn't come in contact with any caps whatsoever. Especially if you leave the PCB in the the enclosure, like I do.

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