ghans
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Location: Germany

Re: ReactOS , not Windows !

Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:57 pm

So what about  ReactOS  on ARM ?

Windows 8 is supposed to work on ARM , isn't it ?

But together, R-Pi and ReactOS may really revolutionize the Desktop !

X86 :



[embed] [/embed]

ARM :

[embed] [/embed]

The port is over one year old , and does not boot into the GUI.

Would we still need something like QEMU user-mode emulation for Windows ?

BTW , real hardware support is "ready when it's ready" ;-) -   they are ALPHA till now , NOT BETA  - but with over 100 devs they gained quite some traction this year.

In my perspective even after 2014 XP and  compatible enviroments will still be important and to keep it cheap , R-Pi and ReactOS would be the perfect solution !

Is this project of any interest to us ? What do you think ?

Cheers,
ghans
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obarthelemy
Posts: 1399
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:53 pm

Re: ReactOS , not Windows !

Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:19 pm

I think it's a nice project to work on as a developer, but I don't see the end result being very interesting for end users:
- most Windows software is either proprietary, and x86 only; or it is open, and available on Linux too
- porting a 2001 OS is nice. Using a 2011+ OS, nicer. I'd even choose Win8/Metro over ReactOS.
- Linux is probably more adaptable to the constrained Pi than React-OS
- and Linux is available now.

If the goal is to allow users to remain on familiar UI grounds, it can be approximated well enough with a tweaked Linux. If the goal is to allow users to run their usual x86/Win software and drivers, it is very far off, and mostly a dream.

Must be a fun project to contribute to, though.

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emercer
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Re: ReactOS , not Windows !

Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:11 pm

The point of ReactOS is running Windows binaries on a free, non-Windows environment. ReactOS misses that purpose, since x86 binaries won't run on it, Windows or otherwise.

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Jessie
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Location: C/S CO USA

Re: ReactOS , not Windows !

Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:28 pm

Quote from ghans on December 14, 2011, 18:57
So what about  ReactOS  on ARM ?

Windows 8 is supposed to work on ARM , isn't it ?


I have covered this in other threads but I guess one more time won't hurt. Win 8 for ARM will only work with some very specific chips. They are compiling 3 seporate versions: Tegra, OMAP, and Snapdragon. None of the 3 are cross compatible, metro designed apps from what I have read will run on a compatiblility layer ( like java, but probibly .net) so in theroy will run on all versions of Win 8. Native apps are another story, because most windows software is closed source it will require the developer to re-compile the application for you. It won't just be a matter of poping in the disk for your favorite program such as Photoshop or Office it will be a matter of paying for another copy for your specifc platform assuming that the developer chooses to make that avalible for you.

As for ReactOS, I have never used it but from what I understand it barely works with the x86 processors it is designed for so I don't think it will make its way over to ARM. Just to clarify getting Windows to load to a command prompt isn't working, no one who wants a Windows type OS cares about a command prompt.

tufty
Posts: 1456
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:32 pm

Re: ReactOS , not Windows !

Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:53 pm

<offtopic, mods feel free to delete>

May I politely ask why my thread regarding an open source, non-linux OS project targetted at the Pi, and already booting (at least) under emulation was moved from this forum, whilst speculative threads regarding operatig systems that will probably never run on the Pi, and others regarding "will this tool run" are left in place?

After all,
Please refrain from posting wishlist threads or project proposals here

Just asking, is all.

Simon

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Jessie
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Re: ReactOS , not Windows !

Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:46 pm

You have a point about this thread needing to be moved.

I don't know who moved your thread or why, I always post my reasoning before moving a thread in a reply so I know it wasn't me.

Edit: this thread has been moved to keep the Distros forum for its intended purpose of only containing OS'es that already run on the R-Pi hardware.

Ampix0
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:03 am

Re: ReactOS , not Windows !

Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:15 pm

so wait.. How related to windows is this actually?

What type of file should run on this?

obarthelemy
Posts: 1399
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:53 pm

Re: ReactOS , not Windows !

Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:32 pm

That's the issue; ReactOS wants to be a Windows XP clone, ie let you run Windows software with ReactOS instead of Windows.
That's a tall order because you've got to emulate 1,000s of Windows APIs and millions of lines of code that are not only closed-source but also protected IP.
But since ReactOS itself is opensource, they can recompile it for ARM. Only there are no ARM windows applications to run on that, since there is no ARM Windows for now, so that means to run any app on ReactOS/ARM, you need that app's source, and to recompile it too.

radu
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:19 pm

Re: ReactOS , not Windows !

Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:14 am

I can see a reason for it if it has good DX support. There are some open source games that use DX and were not ported for Linux.

Svartalf
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:50 pm

Re: ReactOS , not Windows !

Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:36 pm

Quote from radu on December 16, 2011, 10:14
I can see a reason for it if it has good DX support. There are some open source games that use DX and were not ported for Linux.

The answer there is to port them over, not layer something that's not fully known outside of Microsoft or implemented (Their DX layer's not much more filled out than WINE's...) on top of the game code and HOPE it works right.

In truth, if it's a FOSS game...there's little reason to not port them- it's not that hard and it's only that people go "oooh...DirectX...too much work" and go on about their way.

radu
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:19 pm

Re: ReactOS , not Windows !

Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:56 pm

Well, if you feel like porting them yourself, that's great. But porting a game from DX to OpenGL/OpenGL ES is not so simple, and many people have better things to do.

Svartalf
Posts: 596
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Re: ReactOS , not Windows !

Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:07 pm

Quote from radu on December 16, 2011, 19:56
Well, if you feel like porting them yourself, that's great. But porting a game from DX to OpenGL/OpenGL ES is not so simple, and many people have better things to do.

You say it's not so simple... Have you ever attempted it?

I have. I've even got published titles. :D

It's actually easier than trying to IMPLEMENT a DX layer like you're talking about. Saying that people have better things to do...well...the same can be said about what you're talking to, just so you know.

radu
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:19 pm

Re: ReactOS , not Windows !

Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:51 am

I am trying to get our game (currently using OpenGL 1.x, but we also have an OpenGL 2 version) ported to ES, and it is not such an easy task. The game is also platform independent, using SDL.

Svartalf
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:50 pm

Re: ReactOS , not Windows !

Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:48 am

Quote from radu on December 17, 2011, 02:51
I am trying to get our game (currently using OpenGL 1.x, but we also have an OpenGL 2 version) ported to ES, and it is not such an easy task. The game is also platform independent, using SDL.

0_o

ES 1.1 is basically equivalent to OpenGL 1.4 sans the immediate mode stuff.

ES 2.0 is basically equivalent to OpenGL 2.0+ sans the immediate mode stuff and the fixed pipeline.

There's solutions in the form of wrappers for both lacks of things- if you're unwilling to go to the trouble to re-work your code if it uses either of those things. It wasn't hard. Caster did it fairly easily to get to iPhone/WebOS/etc. support. Sound's probably going to be the concern since it's not going to have a typical Linux soundsystem (ALSA, OSS, etc.) available to it. If you've done SDL, you've got a substantive portion of the woes for this already done.

eric_baird
Posts: 37
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Contact: Website

Re: ReactOS , not Windows !

Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:51 pm

But did you notice that the new, long-awaited release of ReactOS that just came out a week or so ago is version ...

... 0.3.14 ?

It's Version Pi! (ish)

BrentNewland
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:34 am

Re: ReactOS , not Windows !

Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:19 am

I'm not with the ReactOS project, but I have been following it closely and would like to clear a few things up:

The point of ReactOS is running Windows binaries on a free, non-Windows environment. ReactOS misses that purpose, since x86 binaries won"t run on it (Raspberry PI), Windows or otherwise

Without mentioning the Pi, it sounds like you're saying ReactOS (in general) won't run x86 binaries.

Native apps are another story, because most windows software is closed source it will require the developer to re-compile the application for you. It won"t just be a matter of poping in the disk for your favorite program such as Photoshop or Office it will be a matter of paying for another copy for your specifc platform assuming that the developer chooses to make that avalible for you.

But since ReactOS itself is opensource, they can recompile it for ARM. Only there are no ARM windows applications to run on that, since there is no ARM Windows for now, so that means to run any app on ReactOS/ARM, you need that app"s source, and to recompile it too.

A common misconception. It would be possible to port ReactOS to ARM and have it run x86 binaries. See this page (the See Also section) - To sum it up, there was a project originally called DARWINE that was trying to run x86 apps through wine on PowerPC by using qemu. According to the discussions linked, you could use QEMU (and possibly LLVM, it's not exactly clear) to execute the x86 specific code; and in a regular Windows binary, a lot of code is related to the WIN32 API, so if the API is ported a large portion of code could run natively (it was mentioned that speed could get up to 50% of x86 speeds, but that was using WINE as an emulation layer on top of Darwin, ReactOS is faster by its nature). Something analog to Just-in-Time compilation for CPU code.

Unfortunately, there isn't much work being done on the ARM port at the moment (although there is some). Maybe some RaspberryPi equipped coders could take it up as a pet project - I think ReactOS has potential as a SmartPhone OS in the future as well.

As for ReactOS, I have never used it but from what I understand it barely works with the x86 processors it is designed for so I don"t think it will make its way over to ARM. Just to clarify getting Windows to load to a command prompt isn"t working, no one who wants a Windows type OS cares about a command prompt.

ReactOS is becoming a very capable OS. Here are some current features:


USB Support
Wireless Networking Support
Audio Support
Printing Support
FAT, FAT16, FAT32
CD drives
Basic ext2 support (Installing, even)
Actually installs, boots, and can install and run quite a few programs
Able to use Windows drivers
OpenGL support
DirectX support
Most standard components of the Windows GUI
Much of the Windows API implemented – see the Testman page – out of 7,437,818 API tests it has only failed 12,734 (at r56061)

Plus, the project receives over 500 commits per month. The hardest part is behind them – getting a basic functional OS. With most of the major components in place and somewhat functional, they can spend time making them more functional, gaining all the features they should have, and taking care of bugs.
The development pace on this has been getting faster and faster. I believe in just  year or two at the current pace, they can have it in a state where I would use it on a day to day basis.

Conn
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:55 pm

Re: ReactOS , not Windows !

Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:35 pm

I followed ReactOS for many years. We, as a company, tried hard to make it work with cheap hardware in order to bundle and distribute our ".Net 2.0 software".

The project is a very good one and maybe even noble in a way, but it is only a child and grows very slowly. It started with intentions to "replace" XP many years ago and now XP is gone replaced twice already! ReactOS is still very "alpha".

Anyways, we've managed to run some of our Win32 codes but most of them do not work. I would like to see it run on RPi but I don't have high hopes...

Conn

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