gebi
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Dali Light Management with RaspberryPi

Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:55 am

Dear Raspberry-Users

I'm relatively new to the RaspberryPi community and don't have too much experience with programming, etc in general.

However my first project is rather ambitious and I was hoping for the input of you experts, your general experience with Dali and if there are ready made solutions or if i have to start from scratch.
__________________
I have around 25 Dali Lamps which i want to control individually and in groups with for example EnOcean buttons or others. A Webbrowser-Site or App to control the lamps is ok too.

For Example with 1 button i want to activate lamp 1 to 80% light, with button 2 I want to activate lamp 2 to 60% and lamp 1 to 40% and lamp 3 to 90%, with button 3 i want to activate lamps 1 to 25, with button 4 I want to activate lamp 4 to 100% and lamp 2 to 60%....etc.... you catch my drift.

Additionally all of the lamps or different groups of them should turn off if a light sensor detects a certain amount of light. I'm also thinking about having a proximity sensor per lamp installed, all the sensors should be Dali enabled for this.
___________________

So there are some very expensive software solutions out there but I think it should also be able to achieve with a RaspberryPi.

I was hoping that Kunbus would be finished with his RevPi Controller with Dali, but he says he has some issues buying/getting the Dali License. He estimates he will be able to ship by end of the year, which is sadly too late for me (https://revolution.kunbus.com/gateways/).

So I was hoping you guys might give me some good ideas i could research on?
If my Raspberry is the controller, than I need a DALI readable Interface/OS and a module which has Dali Entrances for all the lamps and sensors.

Thankyou for your help!

gebi
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:53 am

Re: Dali Light Management with RaspberryPi

Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:43 am

Anybody? Maybe you have a tip to another forum or thread here, where this or smthg similar was already discussed... Or you have a totally different and other low-cost open source approach to my problem...?
Any help is welcome and badly needed. Thankyou

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bensimmo
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Location: East Yorkshire

Re: Dali Light Management with RaspberryPi

Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:38 am

I've not seen DALI mentioned in the forum before (just looked it up on Wikipedia).
I would look at the home automation projects (some examples in this month MagPi) and see if anyone has implemented anything for them.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/magpi/

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mark3112
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Re: Dali Light Management with RaspberryPi

Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:25 pm

I use a Microchip DALI Interface (DM160215) that works OK but its USB to Windoze (USB HID).
Have a look at DM160214-1, No comms channel but if you can rework the PIC code perhaps you could implement something.
You can make a real CPU in a FPGA, but you can’t make a real FPGA in a CPU.

dcomin
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Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:55 am

Re: Dali Light Management with RaspberryPi

Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:12 am

Hi mark, gebi,

I also have Microchip DALI Interface (DM160215) that seems to work fine with its Windows application (USB HID). Someone of you could make a communication between DM160215 and Raspberry Pi with USB? I used pyUSB to test it, it works fine in some of cases but it is not 100% effective and I am searching for an optimal communication between them.

Have someone made Raspberry PI - DM160215 project?

Regards,

Diego Comín

atxled
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Re: Dali Light Management with RaspberryPi

Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:41 am

Hello
we have designed a HAT to connect a Pi B or B+ ( with PoE) to a DALI bus. So you don't need any other hardware.

Our HAT has a DALI power supply, a Raspberry Pi power supply, and the hardware interface for DALI, and a pre-processor to eliminate the real time aspects of DALI ( the Manchester encoding / decoding is done on-board). You power it with a 24v to 48v power supply or passive PoE.

Contact us for info.

Murray
https://atxled.com/Pi/
Last edited by atxled on Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

neophilipp
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:18 pm

Re: Dali Light Management with RaspberryPi

Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:21 pm

Hey, sounds Great!

At your Website I can not find more information about the hat. Do you have a shop or where can i find it, for buying it?

Thanks a lot!

atxled
Posts: 14
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Location: Austin Texas
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Re: Dali Light Management with RaspberryPi

Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:53 pm

Hi
we have now created a link about the DALI HAT

https://atxled.com/Pi/

it is in stock in the USA https://www.shop.atxled.com/products/da ... pi-b-and-b
and in Europe https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07NBZTN81/

It is working great!
Murray
Last edited by atxled on Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ttauno
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Re: Dali Light Management with RaspberryPi

Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:55 pm

atxled wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:53 pm
Hi
we have now created a link about the DALI HAT
https://www.shop.atxled.com/products/da ... pi-b-and-b

It is working great!
Murray
Hi,

Just started with a "small" hobby project at my house and started automating it with the help of Rasberry Pi unit. Overall goalwill be to use the same unit to control DALI based lighting system and possibly plugs, curtains, heating, alarms, tv, etc via this central unit.
I am quite new to DALI systems and I am also trying to figure out the best way to solve my hobby project with DALI lighting control.
I have a couple of questions regarding this DALI HAT.

1) It seems to have 2 separate connections for DALI circuits. Does this mean that it can control 2 circuits? or it just means that you can connect 2 different circuits into one with this connection?
2) Can I use this HAT to also manage/program my DALI circuit also, or do I need a separate USB master unit or software for this? I can do Python, so it would be ideal if I could use this also to manage and program groups, addresses, dimming etc that a decent DALI system is able to do.
3) I seem to be just in the beginning of my journey and this maybe a stupid question, but my so called hobby project is a small private house lighting. Assuming that the number of lighting fixtures controlled by DALI is not going to exceed 64 units, would it be something to consider to run the whole house within one DALI circuit?

Trying to figure out if it is the right solution for my project.
Thank you in advance!
Toni

atxled
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Re: Dali Light Management with RaspberryPi

Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:34 am

Hello

Thanks for your question!

Our Pi Hat has just one DALI interface - the double connections are to allow feed thru of the DALI bus to avoid making wire connections

It is powered by a 24v to 48v source, and that source also powers the Pi, and the DALI bus.

Until we have our own DALI Master software - you would need to purchase something like the DALIpro USB or the DALI-100 USB or other DALI master to convert the default 'long' DALI addresses into the 'short addresses" used to actually turn lights on and off.

It is easy to write your own code in Python or something to send DALI commands to the Pi Hat, and to monitor all DALI traffic on the bus. Emulating a DALI master is possible - just more work. We have shipped devices to 5 countries so far...

Best Regards
Murray

loba
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 7:29 am

Re: Dali Light Management with RaspberryPi

Sat May 11, 2019 7:50 am

Hi everybody,
If you are interested into use your Rpi with DALI, take a look of my project here, an easy to use DALI Hat:

https://www.ebay.it/itm/DALI-Master-hat ... 4220148656

This Hat transforms your Rpi in a DALI Master, able to control all the ballasts on the bus.
See the python library on github, with many examples to getting started:

https://github.com/davideloba/daliMaster_rpi

Regards.
Loba

atxled
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Location: Austin Texas
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Re: Dali Light Management with RaspberryPi

Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:37 pm

An update from ATX LED

we have uploaded a script to install all the controls to enable http control of a DALI bus. You can find the description on our wiki at https://atxled.com/Pi/

With this setup, it allows any RPI to be configured automatically from scratch. Besides the GUI interface - you also have 15 sample python scripts to control anything on the DALI bus, and a locally hosted web page that allows manual or automated control from a web page or using Curl. We support Dataplicity for remote access.

We have fine tuned our DALI Hat to hit over 33 packets per second and to support 12v to 56 volt operation by passive PoE. In stock at Amazon Europe and USA.

Thanks everyone for the feedback and requests!
Murray

atxled
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Re: Dali Light Management with RaspberryPi

Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:51 am

Hi Folks

we have recently added Philips Hue emulation using DIYHue. This means that the entire DALI bus can be accessed from the Hue App including tunable white.

With this, Amazon Alexa has control of the DALI bus fixtures

Contact us for more information.

Best Regards
Murray

pcjc
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:19 pm

Re: Dali Light Management with RaspberryPi

Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:39 pm

I bought one of Murray's DALI HATs, and whilst I think this is a cool product, I have a couple of cautions regarding the safety and function.

Yes, I'm playing with it, but I'm an electrical engineer specialising in power systems, and I'm doing so knowing there are some quite serious risks associated with connecting it to live DALI ballasts. This circuit would not pass product safety standards as it is intended to be used.

DALI bus is not SELV (separated extra low voltage). Within ballasts and other components on the DALI bus, there is no requirement for the standards of electrical insulation, clearance and voltage withstand testing that would be required in order to consider these bus lines safe for contact, and "separated" from the hazardous mains voltage.

DALI bus lines are often run within the same cables as the mains AC supply feeding the ballast, and must be wired on cable with mains rated insulation. All that separates the data-lines from mains AC in the ballast may be basic insulation, certainly not what is required to connect with equipment like a raspbery pi.

With this said - the combination "might" be safe if the following apply:

1. Double insulated or earthed enclosure for PI, Hat and power supply - meeting appropriate product standards.
2. WiFI only connection, with no metalic connection other than to the DALI bus.
3. If PSU is run outside of the enclosure, cabling must be appropriately rated (and double) insulated.
4. Possibly PSU needs to be specifically designed for this usage - although I suspect aside from the output cable insulation, most SELV output supplies should be OK here.
5. Whilst there are magnetics in the Ethernet jack, these are not specified to provide the type of insulation required here - so even using the Ethernet port whilst this is attached to the DALI line is dangerous.


IE.. basically, provide the reinforced insulation level around the outside of the system, INCLUDING the Rasperry PI and this hat, treat all PCBs as if they were live.


Other DALI bus interfaces on the market employ galvanic isolation with the appropriate withstand voltages. I also bought a DeeBridge (Illumtech) to play with, and this includes the necessary opto-isolators (although has other shortcomings).


A further note - powering my PI though this HAT, it reboots due to insufficient power delivery. Admittedly I've got the HAT on a 12V supply only, but I ended up abandoning powering via that route.

atxled
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Re: Dali Light Management with RaspberryPi

Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:27 am

Thanks PCJC

First - please use a 48v power supply (not 24 volts) with the HAT V1 - we corrected the data sheet. 48v is the normal supply voltage for our DC powered LED lights - our system does not use 120v or 240v mains - our lighting solution uses 48v low voltage DC - which has 1500 volts of electrical isolation.

Your concerns when used with 120/240v cable bundles are legit and related to the fact that we chose to offer a DALI power supply in the device. Since you tried using a 12v supply - you must not have enabled our built-in DALI bus power supply - and thus for your application, an opto isolated model would be fine. We have that in our Version 2 hardware. An Opto Isolator for DALI is quite a simple thing.

In installations where the DALI bus is not in immediate proximity to the Mains AC - we think the problem is reduced. In one house, over 40 DALI- 240VAC drivers are installed - but done in a way that has over 10 cm of distance between the high voltage and low voltage connections.

That said - in our many installations - the DALI HAT is headless - it is not accessible - we use the WiFi connector (or wired ethernet) and both methods isolate the user from any fault in the cable bundle.

Thanks again for your purchase. Our new ZWD software is the most user friendly DALI master that we have seen.

Best Regards
Murray

atxled
Posts: 14
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Location: Austin Texas
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Re: Dali Light Management with RaspberryPi

Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:32 pm

Thanks to PCJC - we have decided to make a fully isolated version without power supply, it will be available in about 4 weeks.

Anyone with V1 hardware - that is not using the power supply feature, might be interested in our trade in offer to exchange it for the new optically isolated version.

Please contact us for details.

Murray

atxled
Posts: 14
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Location: Austin Texas
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Re: Dali Light Management with RaspberryPi

Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:44 am

Hi Folks

Thanks to the review on this forum - we listened and made an isolated version (or 2). Our 1, 2 and 4 channel, optically isolated DALI PI Hats are now available for shipping from the USA and UK. Please see https://www.shop.atxled.com/products/da ... pi-b-and-b or https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07NBZTN81 or https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NBZTN81

The 2 and 4 channel models removed the power supply - please use an external DALI power supply. The device only requires 50 mW from the Pi for operation - so it presents no significant load to the Pi. Super fast I/O handling removes all real time requirements from the PI, our offloading onto a dedicated processor simplifies coding on the Pi.

The 2nd generation 1 channel device reads back the voltage and current on the DALI bus for better system management. It also reads back the PoE voltage for PoE LED driver applications.

Murray
Last edited by atxled on Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

atxled
Posts: 14
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Location: Austin Texas
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Re: Dali Light Management with RaspberryPi

Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:12 pm

Hi Folks

in the past months we have expanded the ZWD software to add Triggers to allow a sequence of timed events to occur after an input ( like a Z-Wave motion sensor turning a light on and off again). Please upgrade to version 148 when you can, it also reduces the number of write cycles to the SD card to assure no wear out. Hue Emulation is greatly improved, and we have tested it with HOOBS. Color Tuning DT8 is greatly improved too.

on the hardware side - our new 2 channel offers full electrical isolation - yes, V1 of the 2 channel had trace widths on the PCB that were too close together - we have that fixed now in v2.

Amazon stocks are low now, but we have inventory in the UK ready to ship - will restock Amazon when they allow it.

Our v2 of the 1 channel combo HAT + DALI Power supply + Pi power supply is in stock also - it has advanced debugging tools for the DALI bus ( all voltages of local and remote devices ) and improved speeds.

thanks
ATX LED

rongten
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 4:09 pm

Re: Dali Light Management with RaspberryPi

Mon May 04, 2020 4:33 pm

Hello ATX LED spokeperson,

I have a question about the ZWD software, is it a proprietary software, is it an open source software, where can it downloaded/purchased?

If I look at your store page like https://www.shop.atxled.com/products/da ... 9991563379, I see it mentioned like
- works with our ZWD software package
...
- ZWD Software license available separately
So it is not clear to me what is the situation. I see you have a github page at https://github.com/atx-led-open-source, is this the ZWD software you mention?

I would like to purchase the 4 channel dali https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B081TNRGMN?th=1 but it is not clear how to get the ZWD software and how DALI buttons and sensors like presence detection would work.

Do you need to commission first the DALI network and only after you can use the HAT, or you can commission the network with it?

Sorry I am new and trying to understand.

Regards

atxled
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:36 am
Location: Austin Texas
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Re: Dali Light Management with RaspberryPi

Mon May 04, 2020 6:16 pm

Hello

we have two kinds of software for the Pi Hat hardware

- open source functions in Python as examples that you can embed into your projects - those are on git, and more up to date on our website. With these, you can turn lights to any level or color and set DALI features like fade and minimum dimming levels. You can also scan a DALI bus for devices and their status

- our in-house complete package ZWD that is sold for $200. We are updating this package constantly with new features, like Zwave to DALI, Hue to DALI, DMX to DALI and DT8 support with time of day scheduling

you can purchase the software license ( per system license) from us.

Best Regards

Foxtron
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:48 am

Re: Dali Light Management with RaspberryPi

Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:53 am

Hello,
if you need easy sollution, here you can find DALI to serial line converter http://www.foxtron.cz/home/bus/dali/dal ... il?lang=en and here is DALI power supply which can be embedded in the RPi http://www.foxtron.cz/home/bus/dali/dal ... il?lang=en
If you have any questions about connection to RPi or about DALI in general, feel free to ask us at info@foxtron.cz
Jan

atxled
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Re: Dali Light Management with RaspberryPi

Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:39 am

Hello DALI users

This month, we tested our DALI ZWD software with Samsung smartthings. We are happy to report that with this Samsung Hub, you can connect your DALI bus devices to Alexa / Google via our ZWD solution.

This means we now offer control by Hue App, by Siri via Hoobs, and the SmartThings universe, plus Z-Wave devices are supported too with triggers like motion and remote switches. With our DALI to DMX interface, you can control DMX drivers as well.

We offer diagnostic tools for advanced users, DT8 support, GPS based schedules, and much more

thanks

davidfungf
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:28 am

Re: Dali Light Management with RaspberryPi

Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:04 am

Hello ATX LED spokeperson,

My DALI project needs an access to DALI Parts 251-3 operational & diagnostic data. Can I use your library (python or ZWD) to access Memory bank 205-207 data? Thanks.

Memory bank 205 –Control gear diagnostic and maintenance information:
Operating time, start counter, external supply voltage, external supply frequency, power factor, overall failure condition, overall failure counter, external supply under-voltage & counter, external supply over-voltage & counter, output power limitation & counter, thermal derating & counter, thermal shutdown & counter, temperature, output current.

Memory bank 206 –Light source diagnostics and maintenance information:
Start counters, on-time counters, voltage, current, overall failure condition & counter, short-circuit & counter, open-circuit & counter, thermal derating & counter, thermal shutdown & counter, temperature.

Memory bank 207 –Luminaire maintenance data:
Luminaire lifetime, control gear reference temperature, rated light-source starts

atxled
Posts: 14
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Location: Austin Texas
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Re: Dali Light Management with RaspberryPi

Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:28 am

Thanks for you request

Three topics - the hardware, python examples, and ZWD.

our hardware supports the 8 and 16 bit commands used by the originial DALI, and the 24 bit used by DALI-2.

We don't have python examples for DALI-2 - so you would need to find someone to do that using our data sheet for the AL-DALI-HAT and our existing examples.

We can expand ZWD to support DALI-2 commands, please contact us for pricing.

Thank you!

Akinava
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:29 am

Re: Dali Light Management with RaspberryPi

Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:45 am

Hello guys,

My question is about compatibility ATX LED HAT and RS485 HAT on a same RPi 4b board. Has anyone tested this?

Thank you in advance!

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