lbaitemple
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:52 pm

Re: Problems adding a USB 3.0 SSD to PI4

Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:58 pm

I observed a new issue with a USB 3.0 SSD (Samsung FIT Plus USB 3.1 Flash Drive) attached to a Pi4 when I used a wireless joystick (F710). When the joy was close to the Pi4, it works well. As soon as I moved the remote 2 feet away from the Pi4, the remote stoped working. I am not sure what happen with the USB 3.0 SSD and the remote. I tried both buster OS and ubuntu OS on the Pi4 to observe the problem. It seems that is a hardware bug with the Pi4.

ejolson
Posts: 5157
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Problems adding a USB 3.0 SSD to PI4

Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:19 am

lbaitemple wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:58 pm
I observed a new issue with a USB 3.0 SSD (Samsung FIT Plus USB 3.1 Flash Drive) attached to a Pi4 when I used a wireless joystick (F710). When the joy was close to the Pi4, it works well. As soon as I moved the remote 2 feet away from the Pi4, the remote stoped working. I am not sure what happen with the USB 3.0 SSD and the remote. I tried both buster OS and ubuntu OS on the Pi4 to observe the problem. It seems that is a hardware bug with the Pi4.
Good catch. According to

https://www.logitechg.com/en-gb/product ... 940-000142

that gamepad is operating in the 2.4GHz frequency band, which USB3 hard disks are known to interfere with. I suppose it works when the disk is plugged into the USB2 port.

Have you tried putting the dongle for the gamepad on a short extension away from the disk?

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HawaiianPi
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Location: Aloha, Oregon USA

Re: Problems adding a USB 3.0 SSD to PI4

Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:43 am

lbaitemple wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:58 pm
I observed a new issue with a USB 3.0 SSD ...
Really, a "new" issue?

Funny how Intel published a paper on this "new" issue all the way back in 2012. Not to mention, it's been discussed many times on these forums, including the first page of this thread (just a few posts above yours).

This problem is well known, and is not unique to the Pi4 (for example, some expensive Macbooks suffer from it as well). USB 3.0 devices create interference in the 2.4GHz band, and that's a popular frequency things like for WiFi, Bluetooth, and many other wireless devices.

Place your wireless USB dongle on a short, shielded extension cable (I've used cables as short as 6 inches). Another option would be to place the USB 3.0 device further away (less practical in your case, but see my reply from a few posts before yours).
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

ejolson
Posts: 5157
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Problems adding a USB 3.0 SSD to PI4

Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:26 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:43 am
lbaitemple wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:58 pm
I observed a new issue with a USB 3.0 SSD ...
Really, a "new" issue?
I haven't seen anyone discussing the Logitech F710 gamepad before. The novelty with the Pi in general seems to be how many people are trying to run bare USB3 SSDs made of plastic in close proximity to 2.5GHz radios. I wonder if a shielded enclosure made of sheet metal would allow people to stack their Pi 4B on top of the drive as before.

IanS
Posts: 249
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Location: Southampton, England

Re: Problems adding a USB 3.0 SSD to PI4

Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:53 pm

ejolson wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:48 pm
IanS wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:02 pm
I have a Pi4 with USB3 SSD that works fine with no tweaks required, other than repointing the root device in the SD card /boot/cmdline.txt to the USB drive.
The USB adapter is a StarTech USB3S2SAT3CB (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00HJZJI84), and the SSD is a Crucial BX500 CT120BX500SSD1(Z) (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07G3L3DRK).

I also have another Pi4 with a USB3 SSD which is being used as an additional drive rather than root. An Amazon Basics adapter (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01N5RLG2C), again with a larger Crucial BX500 drive (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07G3KRZBX).

Whether the drive is the cable length away from the Pi, or curled up with the Pi on top of the drive does not seem to matter.
Did either or both of those adapters have SSD TRIM support out of the box?
The StarTech one is powered off currently, so I cannot check remotely, but it is not listed on the TRIM supported devices at https://www.startech.com/HDD/Enclosures ... UPPORT=Yes. The Amazon Basics one does not list trim (or discard) when queried with hdparm -I, so presumably not that one either.

ejolson
Posts: 5157
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Re: Problems adding a USB 3.0 SSD to PI4

Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:15 pm

IanS wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:53 pm
ejolson wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:48 pm
IanS wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:02 pm
I have a Pi4 with USB3 SSD that works fine with no tweaks required, other than repointing the root device in the SD card /boot/cmdline.txt to the USB drive.
The USB adapter is a StarTech USB3S2SAT3CB (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00HJZJI84), and the SSD is a Crucial BX500 CT120BX500SSD1(Z) (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07G3L3DRK).

I also have another Pi4 with a USB3 SSD which is being used as an additional drive rather than root. An Amazon Basics adapter (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01N5RLG2C), again with a larger Crucial BX500 drive (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07G3KRZBX).

Whether the drive is the cable length away from the Pi, or curled up with the Pi on top of the drive does not seem to matter.
Did either or both of those adapters have SSD TRIM support out of the box?
The StarTech one is powered off currently, so I cannot check remotely, but it is not listed on the TRIM supported devices at https://www.startech.com/HDD/Enclosures ... UPPORT=Yes. The Amazon Basics one does not list trim (or discard) when queried with hdparm -I, so presumably not that one either.
I'm wanting to set two file servers up with USB3 connected SSDs for use next fall. I currently have the SSDs and tested them with two different kinds of repurposed USB3 to SATA adapters obtained from a drive-husking project involving 3.5" Seagate and Western Digital spinning disks. While those SATA adapters work fine, it would be nice to have a solution with a shorter cable that provides SSD TRIM by default.

Currently my plan is to place the drives in a PC to issue the TRIM commands once a semester, but that seems a bit horrible. The possible interference with wireless makes me wonder how I should mount the SSDs to minimise 2.5 GHz radio frequency interference.

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HawaiianPi
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Location: Aloha, Oregon USA

Re: Problems adding a USB 3.0 SSD to PI4

Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:05 pm

ejolson wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:15 pm
... it would be nice to have a solution with a shorter cable that provides SSD TRIM by default.
This Eluteng "blue" adapter with ASMedia chipset supports TRIM by default in Raspbian, and it's only 7 inches long. Beware of lookalikes, there are a bunch of these things that look exactly the same with different chipsets and firmware.

I've been using that adapter with the weekly fstrim.timer service and it's working fine on a headless 4B2 connected to 5GHz WiFi. However, testing with my current (plastic) SSD, a Logitech Unifying dongle and 2.4GHz WiFi did reveal some trouble. See my earlier post for info.

I had previously used that setup with a Crucial MX500 SSD, which has a metal casing, and I seem to recall my Logitech Unifying dongle worked. So better shielding may help, but further testing would be needed.
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
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njheb
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:24 pm
Location: uk

Re: Problems adding a USB 3.0 SSD to PI4

Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:20 pm

I made some edits in another thread about USB3 noise with SSD and HDD when an 8GB PI4 in cased in an Aluminium enclosures stopping 2.4GHz wifi associating. It seemed like this thread is a better home for them if any one is looking for an explanation to their problems (I removed the case as a last resort when trying to debug the problem).

In a nutshell removing the case or just the bottom plate of the case stops my 2.4 GHz wifi from being jammed when usb3 speed MSD is in use. If the case is in place it is not possible to associate if usb3 speed MSD is connected and powered up.

Details:
viewtopic.php?p=1683671#p1683468

I hope this post save someone else from having the problems I had.

pidd
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri May 29, 2020 8:29 pm
Location: Wirral, UK

Re: Problems adding a USB 3.0 SSD to PI4

Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:33 pm

Buy a clip on RF choke and put it at the Pi end of the USB3.0 cable, fixed the problems with my Pi4s halting wifi on my Pi0

An example of what I am talking about (though might not be the correct size). https://www.ebay.com/itm/20ea-Inner-0-2 ... 4537694287

njheb
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:24 pm
Location: uk

Re: Problems adding a USB 3.0 SSD to PI4

Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:29 pm

Thanks @pidd i'll look into it and report back to the thread.

ejolson
Posts: 5157
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Problems adding a USB 3.0 SSD to PI4

Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:36 pm

pidd wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:33 pm
Buy a clip on RF choke and put it at the Pi end of the USB3.0 cable, fixed the problems with my Pi4s halting wifi on my Pi0

An example of what I am talking about (though might not be the correct size). https://www.ebay.com/itm/20ea-Inner-0-2 ... 4537694287
This is a nice idea and the first report I've heard that it works. If anyone tries this, please report back. Every night the WiFi gets jammed here for about an hour and I've finally got the idea the WiFi trouble is caused by a cron job that updates the locate database and then performs other disk maintenance.

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