alias_neo
Posts: 108
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:55 am
Location: London, England
Contact: Website

Re: Unpowered Raspi breaking HDMI-CEC

Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:21 pm

This thread makes for some interesting reading, but I'm wondering if perhaps it's the televisions you have rather than the Pi itself?

I have had mine hooked up to my Samsung 46" D8000 for a good while no and it hasn't shown any sporadic behaviour. When I turn on the Pi it turns on the TV, when I turn off the Pi it turns off the TV, it hasn't ever turned the TV on while the Pi is off, nor have I seen any other unusual behaviour.

I use a fairly long HDMI cable (2-3m) and I always have Ethernet and a USB keyboard/mouse transmitter connected.

My Pi is an Element 14 one which has a Samsung SoC as opposed to the Hynix ones I'v seen in photographs (Whether or not that could potentially make a difference).
http://2byt.es - Just my two bytes - RPi - Android - Arduino - Blog

beninnz
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:46 am

Re: Unpowered Raspi breaking HDMI-CEC

Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:29 pm

Do you have yours plugged directly into the TV with no AV Receiver?

Because the problem I'm describing here (and others before) is when an AVR is in the equation. Everything works fine with CEC between my Samsung TV and Denon AVR as long as the Pi is either turned on, or the HDMI cable to it is unplugged. Problems occur when the Pi is turned off and plugged into the AVR.

And I have 3 different Pi's with the two different branded SOC's so it's not limited to one particular type.

Edit: also I've noticed people have listed this problem occurring with Samsung, Sony, and Panasonic TV's so I find it hard to believe it's a problem caused by specific TV's.. and as I've said I don't have this problem with the Pulse-Eight CEC adapter in my other media center so it points to something on the Pi being the cause IMHO

alias_neo
Posts: 108
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:55 am
Location: London, England
Contact: Website

Re: Unpowered Raspi breaking HDMI-CEC

Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:33 pm

beninnz wrote:Do you have yours plugged directly into the TV with no AV Receiver?

Because the problem I'm describing here (and others before) is when an AVR is in the equation. Everything works fine with CEC between my Samsung TV and Denon AVR as long as the Pi is either turned on, or the HDMI cable to it is unplugged. Problems occur when the Pi is turned off and plugged into the AVR.

And I have 3 different Pi's with the two different branded SOC's so it's not limited to one particular type.

Edit: also I've noticed people have listed this problem occurring with Samsung, Sony, and Panasonic TV's so I find it hard to believe it's a problem caused by specific TV's.. and as I've said I don't have this problem with the Pulse-Eight CEC adapter in my other media center so it points to something on the Pi being the cause IMHO

Yeh, sorry, just ignore me and ill go back to sitting in the corner.

Mines straight to the TV, I didn't read the thread properly and I apologise.
http://2byt.es - Just my two bytes - RPi - Android - Arduino - Blog

ZZ600E3
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:19 pm

Re: Unpowered Raspi breaking HDMI-CEC

Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:07 pm

It happens regardless of if it's through the avr or direct to the tv.

The tv is the master control if it supports cec, it's the the part that scans and stores hdmi devices so the tv is more than likely the culprit along with the pi

drgeoff
Posts: 10218
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:39 pm

Re: Unpowered Raspi breaking HDMI-CEC

Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:55 pm

Just to point out that the Samsung or Hynix name on the 'SoC' is only on the RAM chip. Directly underneath that is the CPU/GPU which is sole sourced by Broadcom.

alias_neo
Posts: 108
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:55 am
Location: London, England
Contact: Website

Re: Unpowered Raspi breaking HDMI-CEC

Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:59 pm

drgeoff wrote:Just to point out that the Samsung or Hynix name on the 'SoC' is only on the RAM chip. Directly underneath that is the CPU/GPU which is sole sourced by Broadcom.
I see, when they said chip-on-chip I thought it meant stacked within the package, not literally one on top of the other!

Thanks for the info.
http://2byt.es - Just my two bytes - RPi - Android - Arduino - Blog

shad0w
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:13 pm

Re: Unpowered Raspi breaking HDMI-CEC

Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:28 am

I have the same problem. When my raspberry pi is powered off and still plugged into the tv, the tv doesn't find any cec device.

Does removing D14 fix this problem 100%?

I have near to zero solder experience, so I would like to know if you would recommend my to try this fix :??

ZZ600E3
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:19 pm

Re: Unpowered Raspi breaking HDMI-CEC

Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:37 am

I just got a small precision flat head screwdriver and pried it off. I I'm not bad at soldering but the iron i have would just burn the board.

If you have any friends or family with soldering experience, may be ask them if they can help first.

shad0w
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:13 pm

Re: Unpowered Raspi breaking HDMI-CEC

Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:49 am

And did this fully resolve the problem for you?

ZZ600E3
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:19 pm

Re: Unpowered Raspi breaking HDMI-CEC

Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:09 am

it resolved that specific issue yes. I still have the odd problem where CEC doesn't respond, but simply powering everything off and turning the Raspberry Pi on last generally resolves that problem. That only occurs when the Pi is left on permanently so if you get in to the habit of making sure it is powered off when not in use and powered on last with the TV & AVR first then you shouldn't encounter many issues to be honest.

If you can desolder D14, then I highly advise it since it is the cleanest way to do so but i did achieve the same result just working it away from the board with a tiny flat head.

iDragon
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:11 pm

Re: Unpowered Raspi breaking HDMI-CEC

Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:13 pm

So, where do we stand on warranty with this issue? I have the same issue with out Sony Bravia.

I'm quite happy to just take a pair of fine snips and chop the component off, but would rather not do this if it invalidates warranty despite being a change officially made since revision 1, which I have.

User avatar
psergiu
Posts: 223
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:36 am
Location: TX, U.S.A. (was: RO, E.U.)
Contact: Website

Re: Unpowered Raspi breaking HDMI-CEC

Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:13 am

iDragon - warranty ? If the RPi didn't burned out in the 1st couple of hours, it's 99.99% sure that it won't fail later, except if you do something to it that would void the warranty anyway (overvolting, shorts, bad PSU, mechanical damage)

I went on and removed D14 off of both my RPis, and after a factory reset, CEC works fine & dandy on my Sony Bravia (before it would lock up or do strange things)

But taking a look at the backside of the new RPi, http://www.skpang.co.uk/blog/archives/701, i can see that D14 is still there. Why ? Have we broke something else by removing D14 ?

ZZ600E3
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:19 pm

Re: Unpowered Raspi breaking HDMI-CEC

Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:18 am

The thing that makes me wonder is the D14 circuit that's employed on the Pi must be utilised one way or another on most HDMI compliant devices. Why do they not cause the same issues?

shad0w
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:13 pm

Re: Unpowered Raspi breaking HDMI-CEC

Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:03 pm

psergiu wrote: But taking a look at the backside of the new RPi, http://www.skpang.co.uk/blog/archives/701, i can see that D14 is still there. Why ? Have we broke something else by removing D14 ?
It seems that only later versions of rev. 1 have D14 removed. "revision 2.0 fixes this issue by connecting the top side of the diode to +5V0_HDMI", as you can read on the news site.

DoctorSpork
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:00 pm

Re: Unpowered Raspi breaking HDMI-CEC

Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:10 pm

I have just received my rev2.0 "made in uk" raspberry pi, which apparently has the CEC fix.
However I'm having the same "power off the PI but leave it connected => CEC breaks on (Samsung) TV, which, among other things, means that volume up/down just generates a "not available" message on screen. The problem can be solved by unplugging the HDMI lead that runs from the PI to my Onkyo HTX receiver ... and can be replicated by plugging the PI into the TV directly, powering it on and then powering it off.

Is this a sign that my rev2.0 PI is faulty, or that they didn't fix the problem as well as they thought?

To confirm, my PI does have a D14 component under the HDMI socket. Is that confirmed as the source of the problem & not used for any useful function & therefore safe to remove?

Thanks in advance.

ZZ600E3
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:19 pm

Re: Unpowered Raspi breaking HDMI-CEC

Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:33 pm

so Ver 2 of the board is a no go then.

Is there a detailed schematic of the Pi's anatomy anywhere which also identifies what each component is down to the chip/resistor/transistor?

It would help me to see where the circuit actually starts and ends.

caravela
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:47 pm

Re: Unpowered Raspi breaking HDMI-CEC

Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:53 am

Strange , i got a Pi from Farnell today, ordered on the 10, and it doesn't have the d14. I will test it and report Back.
btw it doesn't like it is a rev2 board

mole125
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:01 pm

Re: Unpowered Raspi breaking HDMI-CEC

Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:21 am

My guess is that when a new delivery arrives Farnell stack the new boxes at the front of the shelf.
After R2 boards were released they got a sudden increase in orders, they have now worked there way all the way through the new boxes, all the way through the updated boards and are now using the really old boxes right at the back - in which case soon they may run out of boxes having cleared all the stock and we will have to wait for the next delivery.

Complete speculation of course and in reality stacking/using of the boxes is probably a bit more random and complex than that!

caravela
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:47 pm

Re: Unpowered Raspi breaking HDMI-CEC

Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:32 am

mole125 wrote:My guess is that when a new delivery arrives Farnell stack the new boxes at the front of the shelf.
After R2 boards were released they got a sudden increase in orders, they have now worked there way all the way through the new boxes, all the way through the updated boards and are now using the really old boxes right at the back - in which case soon they may run out of boxes having cleared all the stock and we will have to wait for the next delivery.

Complete speculation of course and in reality stacking/using of the boxes is probably a bit more random and complex than that!
you are probably right.
In my case all i wanted was that hdmi-cec doesn't break between my devices. Anyway the board i received doesn't have D14 soldered, less work for me to do. So far cec is working and nothing strange happened so far.

caravela
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:47 pm

Re: Unpowered Raspi breaking HDMI-CEC

Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:33 pm

this is really annoying, just rebooting the Pi make it break hdmi-cec in my setup

User avatar
psergiu
Posts: 223
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:36 am
Location: TX, U.S.A. (was: RO, E.U.)
Contact: Website

Re: Unpowered Raspi breaking HDMI-CEC

Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:58 pm

caravela wrote:this is really annoying, just rebooting the Pi make it break hdmi-cec in my setup
Just remove D14 then.

caravela
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:47 pm

Re: Unpowered Raspi breaking HDMI-CEC

Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:35 pm

the weird thing is that it doesn't have it

dom
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 5398
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:41 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: Unpowered Raspi breaking HDMI-CEC

Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:37 am

caravela wrote:the weird thing is that it doesn't have it
Try (in config.txt)
hdmi_ignore_cec=1

CEC won't work, but it will stop it sending the active source CEC command. which might avoid the problem.

caravela
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:47 pm

Re: Unpowered Raspi breaking HDMI-CEC

Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:58 pm

Thanks Dom, I will do that. I can use the android remote from now on.

caravela
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:47 pm

Re: Unpowered Raspi breaking HDMI-CEC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:07 pm

After some testing, factory resets i solved my issue by using hdmi_ignore_cec_init=1

Pi: rev 3
AVR: YAMAHA RXV371
TV: Samsung UE32ES5500

Return to “Media centres”