raja99
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Why no PHP forum?

Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:29 pm

I'm curious; why is there no separate forum for PHP?

(I also have a question about the fact that PHP 7 seems to have suddenly appeared in the repository, but I'll wait until this first post gets cleared.)

Thanks.

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topguy
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Re: Why no PHP forum?

Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:25 pm

(not an official opinion)
There is very little about PHP that is RaspberryPi specific, you setup you LAMP server just like on any other Linux machine and off you go. Any PHP oriented other forum would be a much better place to get help with PHP.
There is always someone asking about how to use the GPIO pins from PHP, but you dont need a complete subforum just for that topic.

Heater
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Re: Why no PHP forum?

Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:05 am

Same reason there is no Javascript section.

Which is a shame seeing as JS is one of the most widely used languages in the world and there are lot's of Pi specific modules for it.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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TideMan
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Re: Why no PHP forum?

Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:03 am

Nor a Fortran forum, yet Fortran runs like a scalded cat on RPis, even an old 512 MB Model B.

ShiftPlusOne
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Re: Why no PHP forum?

Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:26 am

The sub-forums are mostly driven by the types of posts on the forum. PHP questions just don't come up on here very often at all.

jahboater
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Re: Why no PHP forum?

Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:12 am

No assembler forum either!

Heater
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Re: Why no PHP forum?

Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:55 pm

That's odd because I see a lot of questions involving PHP going through here.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

ShiftPlusOne
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Re: Why no PHP forum?

Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:59 pm

Heater wrote:That's odd because I see a lot of questions involving PHP going through here.
Perhaps, I could be out of touch with what's going on. I'll admit that I usually skim through new post titles then read and reply to very few posts nowadays.

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DougieLawson
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Re: Why no PHP forum?

Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:02 pm

ShiftPlusOne wrote:
Heater wrote:That's odd because I see a lot of questions involving PHP going through here.
Perhaps, I could be out of touch with what's going on. I'll admit that I usually skim through new post titles then read and reply to very few posts nowadays.
Most of the PHP stuff is non-specific as Mr S+1 states. There's already too many forums and sub-forums on here, we don't need another - we need some of the stuff to be merged.
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jamesh
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Re: Why no PHP forum?

Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:28 am

DougieLawson wrote:
ShiftPlusOne wrote:
Heater wrote:That's odd because I see a lot of questions involving PHP going through here.
Perhaps, I could be out of touch with what's going on. I'll admit that I usually skim through new post titles then read and reply to very few posts nowadays.
Most of the PHP stuff is non-specific as Mr S+1 states. There's already too many forums and sub-forums on here, we don't need another - we need some of the stuff to be merged.
We do, it's planned.
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r3d4
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Re: Why no PHP forum?

Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:39 am

Heater wrote:Same reason there is no Javascript section.

Which is a shame seeing as JS is one of the most widely used languages in the world and there are lot's of Pi specific modules for it.
I can only assume that reson is because "YourLanguageSucks" :)

- a wiki.theory.org/YourLanguageSucks#JavaScript_sucks_because

- b wiki.theory.org/YourLanguageSucks#PHP_sucks_because

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Re: Why no PHP forum?

Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:35 pm

r3d4,
I can only assume that reason is because "YourLanguageSucks"
Yeah, yeah. I know. Everyone like to looks down on JS and kick it around the block for it's interesting "features".

Thing is, when you have been programming long enough, in a bunch of different languages (including PHP in my case) you start to get the feeling that all programming languages suck. Which I guess is why people keep inventing new languages. Which in turn suck.

As a practical matter, JS can do an awful lot of things that PHP cannot. So I go with the JS suckage instead. For now...
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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Strider64
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Re: Why no PHP forum?

Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:29 pm

Heater wrote:r3d4,
I can only assume that reason is because "YourLanguageSucks"
Yeah, yeah. I know. Everyone like to looks down on JS and kick it around the block for it's interesting "features".

Thing is, when you have been programming long enough, in a bunch of different languages (including PHP in my case) you start to get the feeling that all programming languages suck. Which I guess is why people keep inventing new languages. Which in turn suck.

As a practical matter, JS can do an awful lot of things that PHP cannot. So I go with the JS suckage instead. For now...
I am relatively new to the Raspberry Pi, but I have developing websites for awhile now. I can understand having a python language category (it's like Pascal or Fortran that I learn when I was young), but php and javascript have their own niches. One for the server side (PHP) and the other client side (JavaScript). I look at it this way PHP does the grunt work and makes sures vital data and interactions between the user (client) and website (server) are done properly. JavaScript makes interactions "pretty" and one of many interactions between client and server is to make appear seamless instead of chunky (my way of describing it) to the end user (Ajax being one of those tools). Stuff like JQuery is just a library for people who don't want to mess around with a lot of javascript code and there are plenty of Frameworks for PHP so programmers don't have to reinvent the wheel. There are plenty of other server languages out there that corporations use instead of PHP or groups that don't like PHP (Ruby on Rails).

The Raspberry Pi is a learning device that bridges the gap between hardware and software at a cheap price, so that people are not breaking the bank. The rPi is also geared towards the younger generation though old geeks like me have found a little corner to play around with by creating projects with it. :D A person is better off going to a programming forum for specific question on a particular language itself and to rPi forums for linkage between rPi and a piece of hardware.
"Insanity Is Doing the Same Thing Over and Over Again and Expecting Different Results" ~ Albert Einstein

Heater
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Re: Why no PHP forum?

Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:18 am

I can understand having a python language category (it's like Pascal or Fortran that I learn when I was young),...
I don't understand. Python is nothing like Pascal or Fortran. When I was young I started with Algol, which is more in the same mold as Pascal, Fortran, Ada, Coral, PL/M 86 etc. You know the typed compiled languages.

Python is in fact more like PHP, Javascrip, Lua, Ruby, etc. A whole other world.
...php and javascript have their own niches. One for the server side (PHP) and the other client side (JavaScript).
Not really. Since it's creation JS was also intended as a server side language. That never caught on as the world went with Apache and PHP or Java solutions on the server.

You are half a decade behind the times. Since the arrival of node.js Javascript has grown huge on the server. Powers some well known web sites and millions of lesser known. https://nodejs.org/en/ Especially those that make use of "push" technology, streaming updates to a page in real time.
Stuff like JQuery is just a library for people who don't want to mess around with a lot of javascript
Not really. The main motivation for things like jQuery is to abstract away the horrible DOM API of the browser.

Things have gotten a bit crazy in recent years with many better libraries/frameworks to do that job: Angular, React, etc: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compariso ... frameworks

Now, it just happens that building servers, interacting with real-time data streams and sensors etc is what goes on on the Raspberry Pi a lot. Turns out that the event driven programming model of Javascript and the node.js run time make JS an idea language for such applications.

JS is also a great language for building GUI applications. Consider Microsoft's Visual Studio Code IDE. Built with JS, using the Chrome browser engine for the GUI and node.js for everything else. All wrapped up as the Electron platform. https://electron.atom.io/
A person is better off going to a programming forum for specific question on a particular language itself and to rPi forums for linkage between rPi and a piece of hardware.
I agree. For language related stuff that is no doubt true.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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Douglas6
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Re: Why no PHP forum?

Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:32 am

I often see questions of this type: "Why isn't there a specific forum for X?" Perhaps we need a specific forum for them.

jamesh
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Re: Why no PHP forum?

Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:03 am

There are too many subforums on here already. We will be binning a load of lesser used ones, timescale as yet unknown.

I'd prefer just a few language forums, then perhaps a catch all forum where you need to prepend the language to your subject title to give people information on whether they should answer the question.
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Re: Why no perl forum?

Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:02 am

jamesh wrote:There are too many subforums on here already. We will be binning a load of lesser used ones, timescale as yet unknown.

I'd prefer just a few language forums, then perhaps a catch all forum where you need to prepend the language to your subject title to give people information on whether they should answer the question.
You've been announcing the forum revamp for a couple of years. It's not happening. Whatever happens please leave "Scratch" as a separate forum so it's easy to ignore that one. I don't do visual GUI programming things.

Using just the "General programming/Other languages" forum and using [Javascript], [Lua], [PHP] or [perl] as a subject prefix makes lots of sense.

BTW, why isn't there a perl forum, I run some perl programs on my raspberries every day.
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jamesh
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Re: Why no perl forum?

Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:43 am

DougieLawson wrote:
jamesh wrote:There are too many subforums on here already. We will be binning a load of lesser used ones, timescale as yet unknown.

I'd prefer just a few language forums, then perhaps a catch all forum where you need to prepend the language to your subject title to give people information on whether they should answer the question.
You've been announcing the forum revamp for a couple of years. It's not happening. Whatever happens please leave "Scratch" as a separate forum so it's easy to ignore that one. I don't do visual GUI programming things.

Using just the "General programming/Other languages" forum and using [Javascript], [Lua], [PHP] or [perl] as a subject prefix makes lots of sense.

BTW, why isn't there a perl forum, I run some perl programs on my raspberries every day.
It is happening, just not very quickly. There have been, shall we say, some issues, a big one was the very old version of PHB being used - we have had to upgrade that and it wasn't the simplest of tasks. I think that has been done now. Other issues include the 2 sets of developers dropping out etc. We now have in house development staff...

Major language will retain their own forums (C/C++, Python,. Scratch come to mind).
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Re: Why no PHP forum?

Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:55 am

Oh goodie. "Major languages" get their own space. I guess Javascript will be in there.

:)
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

jahboater
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Re: Why no perl forum?

Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:11 am

jamesh wrote:Major language will retain their own forums (C/C++, Python,. Scratch come to mind).
Could I suggest structuring the programming section in the same way that the OS distributions section is?
That is, a top level with a few popular languages in, and an "Other" section with a long list of lesser used languages.

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Re: Why no PHP forum?

Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:28 am

Heater wrote:Oh goodie. "Major languages" get their own space. I guess Javascript will be in there.

:)
https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/

But perhaps the choice should be what languages are taught in Computer Science courses at uni, or in schools.

Return to “Other programming languages”