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DougieLawson
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Re: how to update or reinstall wiringPi of either prior installation source

Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:30 pm

Stiller wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:54 pm
I have to disagree - IMO there should be just 1 default install path for all, i.e. all libs into "/usr/lib" by default
That's where WiringPi goes if you install it with sudo apt install wiringpi.

If you pull a copy from Gordon's repo and build that (with his supplied script with no parameters) it all goes in /usr/local/lib (which is also the correct place for user installed libraries).

What's the problem with that?
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Stiller
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Re: how to update or reinstall wiringPi of either prior installation source

Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:53 pm

DougieLawson wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:30 pm
Stiller wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:54 pm
I have to disagree - IMO there should be just 1 default install path for all, i.e. all libs into "/usr/lib" by default
That's where WiringPi goes if you install it with sudo apt install wiringpi.

If you pull a copy from Gordon's repo and build that (with his supplied script with no parameters) it all goes in /usr/local/lib (which is also the correct place for user installed libraries).
no, that's weird the way it is.

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Re: how to update or reinstall wiringPi of either prior installation source

Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:12 pm

It's been the Unix way since Kernighan, Ritchie & Thompson invented it in the late 1960s.

System stuff in system folders, user stuff in local folders.
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Stiller
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Re: how to update or reinstall wiringPi of either prior installation source

Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:43 am

System stuff in system folders, user stuff in local folders.
wiringPi is wiringPi (analogously similar programs and libs), so why have 2 different install root dirs and 1 extra in a home dir?
But after all that wouldn't matter if there was a system GUI dashboard for overview and uninstall functions like the program manager in the Windows system folder which is able to clean uninstall either program of either installation in either install dir.
Anyway,
DougieLawson wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:12 pm
It's been the Unix way since Kernighan, Ritchie & Thompson invented it in the late 1960s.
probably exactly that is the problem:
Unix is a half century old, once designed for huge computer cupboards and serial text monitor terminals, for computer scientists to THINK! (IBM). :ugeek:
Now the Raspi is a tinker toy for consumers, so it's about the time to THINK DIFFERENT! (Apple) providing an intuitive TOUCH AND FEEL! (Microsoft) and make that thing RUN SIMPLE! (SAP). 8-)

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buja
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Re: how to update or reinstall wiringPi of either prior installation source

Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:03 am

Stiller wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:43 am
System stuff in system folders, user stuff in local folders.
wiringPi is wiringPi (analogously similar programs and libs), so why have 2 different install root dirs and 1 extra in a home dir?
But after all that wouldn't matter if there was a system GUI dashboard for overview and uninstall functions like the program manager in the Windows system folder which is able to clean uninstall either program of either installation in either install dir.
Anyway,
DougieLawson wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:12 pm
It's been the Unix way since Kernighan, Ritchie & Thompson invented it in the late 1960s.
probably exactly that is the problem:
Unix is 60 years old, once designed for huge computer cupboards and serial text monitor terminals, for computer scientists to THINK (IBM)! :ugeek:
Now the Raspi is a tinker toy for consumers, so it's about the time to THINK DIFFERENT! (Apple) providing an intuitive TOUCH AND FEEL! (Microsoft) and make that thing RUN SIMPLE! (SAP). 8-)
There is: all modern Linux distributions have package managers. The package manager lets you install software and keep it up to date without you having to worry about where the files go and how to configure it so that for example your compiler can find the necessary files.
The Debian (Raspbian) package manager is called APT and it's available in several versions: command line (apt), console/text menu (aptitude) and GUI (synaptic).

So Raspbian has a package manager and it works great. The only problem is that you don't seem to know about it.

The other problem is that you installed some software without using the package manager, while it was already installed by default (but you did no know that). If the developer did it right his package had easy to use install and uninstall scripts and followed the Linux guidelines on where to put his files. But if you forget about these scripts, maybe even deleted them, you are on your own.

By the way, Unix was developed without IBM being involved, and the Apple OS is just another version of Unix with some Apple juice over it.

Stiller
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Re: how to update or reinstall wiringPi of either prior installation source

Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:43 am

Of course I know that Unix is not by IBM (but SCO IIRC), and that now Apple OS also uses kind of Unix (nonetheless, also the first proprietary Mac OS was advertized by the slogan "Think different", in reply to IBM's "Think" ) but my statement (rephrasing the slogans) was just meant to riscrivere the need of a different thinking to make things Run Simple, for consumers, now 50 years from those old days. Finally that's the reason of the tremendous success of Apple, Microsoft, SAP, and, last but not least, Arduino. And yes, perhaps it's about the juice.

For the original purpose of my topic: I honestly cannot be expected to recall which software on my computer once has been installed orginally by the distributor, by apt, or from where-ever since I once purchased that thing perhaps many years ago, and no one warned me about installing a package which was already there, magically. So what is actually missing is a GUI program manager which works for all installations, either by apt or git or what ever, and it should be able to clean uninstall all those installations of either origin arbitrarily. So to say, 1 ring to rule them all. But I concede - the hope dies last.

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buja
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Re: how to update or reinstall wiringPi of either prior installation source

Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:38 am

I understand what you mean, but you should not expect that.
The examples you mention all have in common that they are easy to use as long as you stick to the use case the makers had in mind, the perfect regular consumer. This consumer should stay inside the box and use the package manager to install software, and bad luck if it's not in the repository.

The moment you step outside that box, install software outside the package manager, you are not a regular consumer anymore and the system cannot help you. You have to find your own way and you need a lot of information to do that, mistakes are inevitable.
This is the area of the Raspberry Pi, with Linux/Raspbian or whatever operating system, it's more about exploring than consuming. And you have to keep up, because change is the only constant thing here 8-)

Stiller
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Re: how to update or reinstall wiringPi of either prior installation source

Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:14 pm

buja wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:38 am
I understand what you mean, but you should not expect that.
The examples you mention all have in common that they are easy to use as long as you stick to the use case the makers had in mind, the perfect regular consumer. This consumer should stay inside the box and use the package manager to install software, and bad luck if it's not in the repository.

The moment you step outside that box, install software outside the package manager, you are not a regular consumer anymore and the system cannot help you. You have to find your own way and you need a lot of information to do that, mistakes are inevitable.
This is the area of the Raspberry Pi, with Linux/Raspbian or whatever operating system, it's more about exploring than consuming. And you have to keep up, because change is the only constant thing here 8-)
well, I actually do expect that from the OS, to keep track over all the installations which are performed by the users. The Pi is designed for hobby consumers and children just like Arduinos or even Android or iPad tablets are, not for computer scientists to 50 years old ancient technic stuff.
Additionally, I once had no chance at all to know that there was even a "box to keep in" because on Gordon's website (at that time) there wasn't a single hint about the apt thing at all, just about to use git clone, and not even when installing the git clone thing anyone warned me that wiringPi was already there, magically, unnoticed - at least THAT was to be expected.
And not even currently the wP homepage mentiones that there are happening different things to installation paths and duplicate files and folders etc if one installed the package by this or by the other way, so it keeps every user in abeyance about those details which finally causes those issues.
Instead, I expect all package installers to inform the OS of what one is doing, or alternatively the OS to observe those installers and protocol what they are doing in the background, so that the OS always can keep track to do or undo everything for all installations of either origin.

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DougieLawson
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Re: how to update or reinstall wiringPi of either prior installation source

Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:55 pm

Stiller wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:43 am
Of course I know that Unix is not by IBM (but SCO IIRC) ...
Wrong. It was American Telephones & Telegraph (AT&T) who built it.
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