timg236
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Raspberry Pi4 bootloader beta update and new stable release stream

Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:04 pm

The Raspberry Pi4 bootloader beta has been updated and the previous beta has been promoted to a 'stable'. The 'stable' version has been created so that people who are reliant upon network boot can continue to use that without seeing churn from new functionality in the beta stream e.g. USB mass storage boot in the near future.

Release notes
https://github.com/raspberrypi/rpi-eepr ... e-notes.md

The network boot instructions have been updated in the official documentation
https://github.com/raspberrypi/document ... _config.md

Most of the changes are only of interest if you are using network boot (e.g. bootloader self update) but I think this is the first release candidate for an official production / critical update so please post any issues here.

N.B. The debian package update should be ready soon / by the end of today.

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PeterO
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Re: Raspberry Pi4 beta and new stable release stream

Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:44 pm

I just did a update/full-upgrade and it updated rpi-eeprom-images and rpi-eeprom and did a reboot....
Yet nothing seems to have been updated....

Code: Select all

BCM2711 detected
BOOTLOADER: up-to-date
CURRENT: Wed 16 Oct 17:00:03 UTC 2019 (1571245203)
 LATEST: Tue 10 Sep 10:41:50 UTC 2019 (1568112110)
 FW DIR: /lib/firmware/raspberrypi/bootloader/critical
VL805: up-to-date
CURRENT: 000137ad
 LATEST: 000137ad
What is supposed to have happened ?
PeterO
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timg236
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Re: Raspberry Pi4 beta and new stable release stream

Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:55 pm

PeterO wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:44 pm
I just did a update/full-upgrade and it updated rpi-eeprom-images and rpi-eeprom and did a reboot....
Yet nothing seems to have been updated....

Code: Select all

BCM2711 detected
BOOTLOADER: up-to-date
CURRENT: Wed 16 Oct 17:00:03 UTC 2019 (1571245203)
 LATEST: Tue 10 Sep 10:41:50 UTC 2019 (1568112110)
 FW DIR: /lib/firmware/raspberrypi/bootloader/critical
VL805: up-to-date
CURRENT: 000137ad
 LATEST: 000137ad
What is supposed to have happened ?
PeterO
Nothing. This only updates the beta release binaries and you have 'critical' (the default) selected /etc/default/rpi-eeprom-update. Although, at time point in the past you installed a beta update because the 10th October image only exists in the beta directory e.g. if you selected beta, the automatic update ran and you switched back to critical / installed a fresh Raspbian.

https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... teeprom.md

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PeterO
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Re: Raspberry Pi4 beta and new stable release stream

Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:09 pm

Maybe you understand your explanation but it is incomprehensible to me. Where does it say that it only updates the "beta" ? The title is "beta and new stable" !

How can something called "critical" be the right name for the default ? And I looked and there is a "/lib/firmware/raspberrypi/bootloader/stable" directory which surely contains the stable version ?

So what do I have to do to get back to what ever the standard configuration is called ?

And I would have only switched to a "beta" at the request of someone at RPF/T so I feel like I've been cast adrift with some beta version that with no warning isn't updating ....

PeterO
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Interests: C,Python,PIC,Electronics,Ham Radio (G0DZB),1960s British Computers.
"The primary requirement (as we've always seen in your examples) is that the code is readable. " Dougie Lawson

timg236
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Re: Raspberry Pi4 beta and new stable release stream

Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:28 pm

PeterO wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:09 pm
Maybe you understand your explanation but it is incomprehensible to me. Where does it say that it only updates the "beta" ? The title is "beta and new stable" !

How can something called "critical" be the right name for the default ? And I looked and there is a "/lib/firmware/raspberrypi/bootloader/stable" directory which surely contains the stable version ?

So what do I have to do to get back to what ever the standard configuration is called ?

And I would have only switched to a "beta" at the request of someone at RPF/T so I feel like I've been cast adrift with some beta version that with no warning isn't updating ....

PeterO
The concept of different release streams is explained in 'rpi-eeprom-update -h'. Critical is a suitable name for the update because automatic updates are only there for critical bug fixes, hardware compatibility, security fixes.

It's impossible for me to determine why that EEPROM version is on your Pi but if it's working for you then you may as well leave it as is.

However, if you want to revert back to the latest factory fresh bootloader EEPROM then follow the instructions on the Raspberry Pi downloads page https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/

r00t4rd3d
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Re: Raspberry Pi4 bootloader beta update and new stable release stream

Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:05 am

Please just hurry up and give us USB boot on the pi 4. Thanks!

jamesh
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Re: Raspberry Pi4 bootloader beta update and new stable release stream

Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:06 am

r00t4rd3d wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:05 am
Please just hurry up and give us USB boot on the pi 4. Thanks!
Why do people think that telling us to hurry up and do something will actually make things happen faster? In my experience it has the opposite effect.

Why do people not realise we do stuff as fast as we can?

Why do people not Google and see that our statements on this say it will be ready when it's ready?
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PeterO
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Re: Raspberry Pi4 beta and new stable release stream

Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:01 am

timg236 wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:28 pm
Critical is a suitable name for the update because automatic updates are only there for critical bug fixes, hardware compatibility, security fixes.
Does anyone else in the industry use such a bizzare naming scheme ? The update may be critical but the firmware itself is stable. You've named the firmware after the updates which is confusing.

Kinda like calling it Raspbuan 1294 because the kernel build number is 1294 !

I have in the mean time changed to the "stable" version (because that sounded like the correct version) and it has now updated to the lastest "stable" version because I like things called stable and don't like things called "critical" because they sound like they are about to explode !

PeterO
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Interests: C,Python,PIC,Electronics,Ham Radio (G0DZB),1960s British Computers.
"The primary requirement (as we've always seen in your examples) is that the code is readable. " Dougie Lawson

Marlor
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Re: Raspberry Pi4 bootloader beta update and new stable release stream

Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:46 am

"beta" is beta
"stable" is stable
"critical" is standard. A slow lane of stable. only updates if its critical

Is that right?

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PeterO
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Re: Raspberry Pi4 bootloader beta update and new stable release stream

Sat Mar 14, 2020 11:02 am

Marlor wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:46 am
"beta" is beta
"stable" is stable
"critical" is standard. A slow lane of stable. only updates if its critical

Is that right?
My understanding is that the translation from "RPT speak" is

"beta" is alpha
"stable" is beta
"critical" is stable

This seems more inline with Debian where "stable" only gets critical updates like security updates.

PeterO
Discoverer of the PI2 XENON DEATH FLASH!
Interests: C,Python,PIC,Electronics,Ham Radio (G0DZB),1960s British Computers.
"The primary requirement (as we've always seen in your examples) is that the code is readable. " Dougie Lawson

timg236
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Re: Raspberry Pi4 bootloader beta update and new stable release stream

Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:32 pm

Please try and stay on topic, the release names have been explained before and won't change.

22/7
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Re: Raspberry Pi4 bootloader beta update and new stable release stream

Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:42 pm

I've had network boot on my pi4 working flawlessly now for some months. I got it to work by using the then "beta" firmware.

How should I go about setting it to "stable" without affecting my working netboot?

Thanks.

soundcheck
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Re: Raspberry Pi4 bootloader beta update and new stable release stream

Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:22 pm

A couple of months ago I made that "stable" branch proposal in another thread,
since "critical" never made sense to me.

Answer was something like - "It can't be changed anymore" . Ok. At the time. Understandable.

Fast forward:

Below an excerpt from rpi-eeprom-update -h
A 'critical' update is the latest stable production version and is normally
only updated after it has been tested via the 'beta' and then a 'stable' release.
:roll: So. PeterO is absolutely right.

beta=alpha
stable=beta
critical=stable


The chosen terminology is nonsense and confusing. But jamesh is IMO aware of it.
They just havn't found a way to get rid of "critical", which was the wrong choice from the very beginning.

How to get out of it!?? Stop creating even more mess in the first place!

It's either beta or stable. And that's it.
critical, and non-critical versions might be subsets of beta or stable.

You guys IMO better get rid of critical altogether. Simply add a link to it for compatibility reasons.
That gives the OSes time to adjust.
And don't forget to update the help text. ;)


Enjoy.
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jamesh
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Re: Raspberry Pi4 bootloader beta update and new stable release stream

Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:42 pm

soundcheck wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:22 pm
A couple of months ago I made that "stable" branch proposal in another thread,
since "critical" never made sense to me.

Answer was something like - "It can't be changed anymore" . Ok. At the time. Understandable.

Fast forward:

Below an excerpt from rpi-eeprom-update -h
A 'critical' update is the latest stable production version and is normally
only updated after it has been tested via the 'beta' and then a 'stable' release.
:roll: So. PeterO is absolutely right.

beta=alpha
stable=beta
critical=stable


The chosen terminology is nonsense and confusing. But jamesh is IMO aware of it.
They just havn't found a way to get rid of "critical", which was the wrong choice from the very beginning.

How to get out of it!?? Stop creating even more mess in the first place!

It's either beta or stable. And that's it.
critical, and non-critical versions might be subsets of beta or stable.

You guys IMO better get rid of critical altogether. Simply add a link to it for compatibility reasons.
That gives the OSes time to adjust.
And don't forget to update the help text. ;)


Enjoy.
Don't bring me into this, I have nothing to do with any of it!

I'm sure we have specific reasons for all this.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed.
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timg236
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Re: Raspberry Pi4 bootloader beta update and new stable release stream

Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:41 pm

beta = beta
stable = stable
critical = critical updates that get automatically updated to all users who haven't explicitly blocked updates.

For most users there's no reason to update the bootloader even if there is a new stable version because they don't care about network or USB boot.

The names aren't changing, the documentation might if people want to submit suitable PRs.

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PeterO
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Re: Raspberry Pi4 bootloader beta update and new stable release stream

Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:12 pm

How can you persist with this crazy scheme where the version the vast majority of users need is not called "stable" ?
I'm utterly dumbfounded !
PeterO
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Interests: C,Python,PIC,Electronics,Ham Radio (G0DZB),1960s British Computers.
"The primary requirement (as we've always seen in your examples) is that the code is readable. " Dougie Lawson

hippy
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Re: Raspberry Pi4 beta and new stable release stream

Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:13 pm

timg236 wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:28 pm
The concept of different release streams is explained in 'rpi-eeprom-update -h'. Critical is a suitable name for the update because automatic updates are only there for critical bug fixes, hardware compatibility, security fixes.
I'm a bit confused because the latest rpi-eeprom-images seems to have a "critical" (default) which is older than "stable", when I would have expected it to be otherwise -

Code: Select all

pi@Pi3B:~/apps/booteeprom $ sudo apt-get install rpi-eeprom
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following additional packages will be installed:
  rpi-eeprom-images
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  rpi-eeprom rpi-eeprom-images
0 upgraded, 2 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 0 B/378 kB of archives.
After this operation, 8,345 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
Selecting previously unselected package rpi-eeprom-images.
(Reading database ... 207042 files and directories currently installed.)
Preparing to unpack .../rpi-eeprom-images_5.1-1_all.deb ...
Unpacking rpi-eeprom-images (5.1-1) ...
Selecting previously unselected package rpi-eeprom.
Preparing to unpack .../rpi-eeprom_5.1-1_all.deb ...
Unpacking rpi-eeprom (5.1-1) ...
Setting up rpi-eeprom-images (5.1-1) ...
Setting up rpi-eeprom (5.1-1) ...
Failed to preset unit: Unit file /etc/systemd/system/rpi-eeprom-update.service is masked.
/usr/bin/deb-systemd-helper: error: systemctl preset failed on rpi-eeprom-update.service: No such file or directory
rpi-eeprom-update.service is a disabled or a static unit, not starting it.
Processing triggers for man-db (2.8.5-2) ...

Code: Select all

pi@Pi3B:~/apps/booteeprom $ python list.py 

Beta     : /lib/firmware/raspberrypi/bootloader/beta     - Testing
Critical : /lib/firmware/raspberrypi/bootloader/critical - Default
Stable   : /lib/firmware/raspberrypi/bootloader/stable

Beta     : pieeprom-2020-03-04.bin - Latest Beta
Beta     : pieeprom-2020-01-17.bin
Beta     : pieeprom-2020-01-09.bin
Beta     : pieeprom-2019-12-03.bin
Beta     : pieeprom-2019-11-18.bin
Beta     : pieeprom-2019-10-16.bin
Beta     : pieeprom-2019-10-08.bin
Beta     : pieeprom-2019-09-25.bin
Beta     : pieeprom-2019-09-23.bin
Beta     : pieeprom-2019-09-10.bin
Beta     : pieeprom-2019-09-06.bin

Critical : pieeprom-2019-09-10.bin - Latest Default
Critical : pieeprom-2019-07-15.bin

Stable   : pieeprom-2020-01-17.bin

Code: Select all

pi@Pi3B:~/apps/booteeprom $ ls -l /lib/firmware/raspberrypi/bootloader/critical
total 1380
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 524288 Jan 22 14:28 pieeprom-2019-07-15.bin
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 524288 Jan 22 14:28 pieeprom-2019-09-10.bin
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  60820 Jan 22 14:28 recovery.bin
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  96984 Jan 22 14:28 vl805-00013701.bin
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  98712 Jan 22 14:28 vl805-000137ab.bin
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  98904 Jan 22 14:28 vl805-000137ad.bin

Code: Select all

pi@Pi3B:~/apps/booteeprom $ ls -l /lib/firmware/raspberrypi/bootloader/stable
total 672
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 524288 Feb 28 14:41 pieeprom-2020-01-17.bin
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  60868 Feb 28 14:41 recovery.bin
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  98904 Feb 28 14:41 vl805-000137ad.bin

timg236
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Re: Raspberry Pi4 bootloader beta update and new stable release stream

Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:32 pm

As I mentioned in my previous post 'critical' is only updated for things that need to be pushed out to all users. Conceptually the release pipeline is

beta -> stable -> critical

therefore critical is always going to be older than stable. Realistically, updates to critical are going to be very rare because there's no rational reason to risk bootloader updates for features which most people don't care about (e.g. network boot).

Maybe USB mass-storage boot or the HDMI diagnostics screen might justify that but they will at least go via beta first, then stable. Beta will then contain the next new feature TBD

Network boot is the first 'stable' release because it's good enough for most people who need network boot except for some corner cases / bugs which are being developed on the beta release.

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Re: Raspberry Pi4 bootloader beta update and new stable release stream

Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:58 pm

timg236 wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:32 pm
As I mentioned in my previous post 'critical' is only updated for things that need to be pushed out to all users. Conceptually the release pipeline is

beta -> stable -> critical

therefore critical is always going to be older than stable. Realistically, updates to critical are going to be very rare because there's no rational reason to risk bootloader updates for features which most people don't care about (e.g. network boot).
Thanks I think I get it now. I had not realised that was the flow. I had misinterpreted ...
timg236 wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:28 pm
Critical is a suitable name for the update because automatic updates are only there for critical bug fixes, hardware compatibility, security fixes.
I had assumed that "stable" had changed, was newer, because there were critical bug fixes, security fixes, hardware compatibility changes applied which all users would want to get, which would then become the default option ("critical"), which all users would want.

I'd imagined it differently, and incorrectly -

Beta - The experimental stuff which isn't necessarily bug free
Critical - The latest default with latest critical bug fixes
Stable - The earlier defaults without the critical bug fixes

But I guess it does make sense -

Beta - The experimental stuff which isn't necessarily bug free
Stable - Feature-rich, should be bug free, but hasn't been rolled out to all
Critical - The latest default, updated if critical bugs fixed or new features roll-out

soundcheck
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Re: Raspberry Pi4 bootloader beta update and new stable release stream

Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:38 pm

It doesn't make sense. It's illogical terminology.

And it is also implemented that way - illogical - IMO.

I do understand that it is difficult to roll back. And therefore I understand timg236's position.

I do think the whole eeprom handling needs an overhaul though. Not just stable vs. critical vs. beta.

E.g.
The eeprom packages should also get a proper version string. Working with "dates" as versions I wouldn't call
state-of-the-art. ;)

And there'd be more...

Enjoy.
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mby
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Re: Raspberry Pi4 bootloader beta update and new stable release stream

Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:41 pm

I find it easier to understand if you look at the naming from an environment perspective, e.g. 'critical' is the right version, for critical environments that must not change unnecessarily...

hippy
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Re: Raspberry Pi4 bootloader beta update and new stable release stream

Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:10 pm

...
Last edited by hippy on Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jamesh
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Re: Raspberry Pi4 bootloader beta update and new stable release stream

Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:51 pm

I'm in a bad mood. I'm at home, and will be at home for the next 2 months, and very unlikely to be getting out much. The dining room table is covered in equipment, and the wife is pissed off about it. The children are noisy and the dog (which I didn't vote for) needs constant attention. My back is aching because I'm not in my normal office chair, and I have a cough.

So I really REALLY suggest people give this arguing about naming scheme a rest because it's really annoying me and my fuse is EXTREMELY short.
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dickon
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Re: Raspberry Pi4 bootloader beta update and new stable release stream

Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:26 am

May I offer my sympathies, and sincere hope that that cough doesn't develop into anything more serious.

I've been working from home for ~15 years now, and I love it. I don't, however, have any kids to worry about, or even a wife; my diningroom table is covered in project work, and that's fine. I also have a room in the house that's a home office, with desk, monitors, Pis, and a wheely chair.

But I've got a cough. Spent the weekend with the other half, whose cough got a lot, lot worse over the time, so I'm now self-isolating on the offchance, thanks to the latest advice. And I don't even have a dog to talk to.

I can well-understand your frustration.


Feel free to delete this post, or shunt it to somewhere in off-topic, or whatnot. I just wanted to let you know you're not alone.

soundcheck
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Re: Raspberry Pi4 bootloader beta update and new stable release stream

Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:29 am

Folks.

Staying focused is what keeps people going.
Self-pity and/or deflection is destructive.

Until now this forum made a real good impression to me. Lot's of constructive talk and information.

I hope it stays this way.


And. To the RPI developers. You're in a very lucky position to have an opportunity to talk to and exchange views with
other IT professionals.
Many of us do not intend to bother you guys. We intend to improve the product free of charge ( and by doing that saving your jobs. ;) )
And not to forget - that community support/involvement is one of the most crucial success factors to the RPi project.

Enjoy.
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