Tobus
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:06 pm

After rpi-update USB boot doesn't work

Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:13 pm

Hi all,
I'm using my Raspberry with an external SSD. After rpi-update and the reboot, USB-Boot doensn't work anymore.
After power on, it shows only an colored screen (see attached).

What can I do? I tried to boot with an new SD-Card. That worked fine, also the mounting of the SSD.

Thanks
Tobias
Attachments
IMG_20190601_160740.jpg
IMG_20190601_160740.jpg (171.53 KiB) Viewed 967 times

pcmanbob
Posts: 6224
Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 9:28 pm
Location: Mansfield UK

Re: After rpi-update USB boot doesn't work

Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:48 pm

Hi.

First question why did you run rpi-update ?

You should not run this unless you are instructed to by one of the raspberrypi org staff, to fix a specific problem.
We want information… information… information........................no information no help
The use of crystal balls & mind reading are not supported

Tobus
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:06 pm

Re: After rpi-update USB boot doesn't work

Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:09 pm

Oh that's new for me. Good to know! Thanks!

pcmanbob
Posts: 6224
Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 9:28 pm
Location: Mansfield UK

Re: After rpi-update USB boot doesn't work

Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:24 pm

It been like that for several years if memory serves my right,
You should only be running

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get update

sudo apt-get upgrade

or
sudo apt-get full-upgrade

or
sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

If your pi was still bootable and had networking you could have tried

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get install --reinstall raspberrypi-bootloader raspberrypi-kernel
https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... pdating.md

But as you pi will no longer boot from the external SSD, I can't see how you are going to fix this without starting over with a new install on the external SSD.
We want information… information… information........................no information no help
The use of crystal balls & mind reading are not supported

hippy
Posts: 5350
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: After rpi-update USB boot doesn't work

Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:45 pm

pcmanbob wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:48 pm
First question why did you run rpi-update ?
There seems to be a fair number of people who misguidedly seem to use that and inevitably get themselves into a pickle having done so.

Maybe it's time to rename it to something else ? Pull the rug out from under the people who are being misled into doing that, save them from themselves, and from the bad advice which is leading them to do that.

Perhaps "rpi-update-and-i-know-the-risks" ?

incognitum
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:34 pm

Re: After rpi-update USB boot doesn't work

Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:07 pm

pcmanbob wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:24 pm
But as you pi will no longer boot from the external SSD, I can't see how you are going to fix this without starting over with a new install on the external SSD.
Sounds a bit drastic.

Since the TS mentions having a bootable SD card, I suggest booting from that and playing with chroot a bit first.
Among the lines of:

Code: Select all

sudo bash
mount /dev/sda2 /mnt
mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/boot
mount -t proc none /mnt/proc
chroot /mnt /bin/bash
And then execute the apt-get or rpi-update commands you want to restore to a previous firmware release.


Alternatively, you can try just replacing the bootcode.bin, start*.elf and fixup*.dat files on the FAT partition of the SSD with the older version of the files you have on your SD card.

LTolledo
Posts: 1534
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:29 am

Re: After rpi-update USB boot doesn't work

Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:45 pm

Never run rpi-update unless specifically instructed by the RPF engineer...

but if you still insist.... its up to you to dig out of your problem....
"Don't come to me with 'issues' for I don't know how to deal with those
Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

Some people be like:
"Help me! Am drowning! But dont you dare touch me nor come near me!"

hippy
Posts: 5350
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: After rpi-update USB boot doesn't work

Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:33 pm

LTolledo wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:45 pm
Never run rpi-update unless specifically instructed by the RPF engineer...

but if you still insist.... its up to you to dig out of your problem....
That 'victim blaming' seems a bit harsh considering there are plenty of articles - including official RPF blog posts - which suggest rpi-update should be used or leads to a belief that it should, and naive users and those who don't know what they are doing cannot be expected to know that it is downright dangerous, and should only be used in specific circumstances.

Those suggestions to use rpi-update aren't going to go away. Users who don't know they're being misled will continue to be misled. The only way to stop people using it when they shouldn't is to remove it, rename it.

User avatar
rpdom
Posts: 14436
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 5:17 am
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

Re: After rpi-update USB boot doesn't work

Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:44 pm

hippy wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:33 pm
Those suggestions to use rpi-update aren't going to go away. Users who don't know they're being misled will continue to be misled. The only way to stop people using it when they shouldn't is to remove it, rename it.
Actually, that is quite a sensible suggestion. Create a new script that displays a disclaimer message when run "This could break your system and if you don't know what you are doing and how to fix it yourself - don't run it!" and asks for confirmation "Yes, I really know what I'm doing and do have a tested and working backup of my system: Y/N?" and create another script called rpi-update that just echos a message to say "Don't run this, use apt instead".

fruitoftheloom
Posts: 19784
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:40 pm
Location: Delightful Dorset

Re: After rpi-update USB boot doesn't work

Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:00 pm

There is nothing in the Official Help Page which states to use rpi-update, yet again no one reads the official website:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... pdating.md
adieu

My other Computer is an Asus CS10 ChromeBit running Chrome Operating System.
HP Envy 4500 Wireless Printer supported by HPLIP software in Raspbian Buster.
Raspberry Pi Model 2B v1.1

LTolledo
Posts: 1534
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:29 am

Re: After rpi-update USB boot doesn't work

Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:24 pm

rpdom wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:44 pm
...Create a new script that displays a disclaimer message when run "This could break your system and if you don't know what you are doing and how to fix it yourself - don't run it!" and asks for confirmation "Yes, I really know what I'm doing and do have a tested and working backup of my system: Y/N?" and create another script called rpi-update that just echos a message to say "Don't run this, use apt instead".
I vote for this! :D
"Don't come to me with 'issues' for I don't know how to deal with those
Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

Some people be like:
"Help me! Am drowning! But dont you dare touch me nor come near me!"

User avatar
DougieLawson
Posts: 35364
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:19 pm
Location: Basingstoke, UK
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: After rpi-update USB boot doesn't work

Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:56 pm

LTolledo wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:24 pm
rpdom wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:44 pm
...Create a new script that displays a disclaimer message when run "This could break your system and if you don't know what you are doing and how to fix it yourself - don't run it!" and asks for confirmation "Yes, I really know what I'm doing and do have a tested and working backup of my system: Y/N?" and create another script called rpi-update that just echos a message to say "Don't run this, use apt instead".
I vote for this! :D
There's already a "How much would you like to destroy your system?" question in rpi-update

Code: Select all

[email protected]:~ $ sudo rpi-update 
*** Raspberry Pi firmware updater by Hexxeh, enhanced by AndrewS and Dom
 *** Performing self-update
 *** Relaunching after update
 *** Raspberry Pi firmware updater by Hexxeh, enhanced by AndrewS and Dom
#############################################################
WARNING: This update bumps to rpi-4.19.y linux tree
Be aware there could be compatibility issues with some drivers
Discussion here:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=224931
##############################################################
Would you like to proceed? (y/N)
That piece just needs some extra words to tell folks not to run it unless they have a backup and know how to rebuild their broken system in less than 20 minutes.

For the OP. The only way to solve their problem is to start with another SDCard, a fresh download of Raspbian, Etcher and a USB reader to read stuff from the broken SDCard (or chroot it to fix it).

The code for rpi-update is on Github at https://github.com/Hexxeh/rpi-update you could write some changes and do a pull request. [I can't be bothered because I know how to rebuild a system in less than 20 minutes.]
Note: Having anything remotely humorous in your signature is completely banned on this forum.

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.

This is a doctor free zone.

hippy
Posts: 5350
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: After rpi-update USB boot doesn't work

Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:29 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:00 pm
There is nothing in the Official Help Page which states to use rpi-update
I don't recall anyone saying there was.

What is actually worth noting is there's nothing there which says "do not use rpi-update", in any shape or form.

Nothing there which tells a reader that other articles and posts which suggest always using rpi-update as the correct path for upgrading are wrong.

hippy
Posts: 5350
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: After rpi-update USB boot doesn't work

Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:42 pm

DougieLawson wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:56 pm
There's already a "How much would you like to destroy your system?" question in rpi-update ... That piece just needs some extra words to tell folks not to run it unless they have a backup and know how to rebuild their broken system in less than 20 minutes.
Doing that merely better legitimises placing the blame on those who don't know what they are doing for doing what they have done.

It does little to protect naive and novice users from themselves. And we all know that people who don't know what they are doing will click-through most warnings even when they shouldn't.

The real problem is that there's so much out there which misleads people into thinking rpi-update is the thing to use.

User avatar
B.Goode
Posts: 7868
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:03 pm
Location: UK

Re: After rpi-update USB boot doesn't work

Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:49 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:00 pm
There is nothing in the Official Help Page which states to use rpi-update, yet again no one reads the official website:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... pdating.md

That's demonstrably true in respect of that specific document.

But this 'official' Raspberry Pi Foundation documentation about the Raspberry Pi Camera Module does recommend rpi-update, with no caution or warning: https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... /camera.md
If you've checked all the above issues and the Camera Module is still not working, you may need to upgrade the firmware on the Raspberry Pi. Use the following command to get the very latest (but experimental) firmware:

sudo rpi-update

(To be clear - I think the advice in Camera Troubleshooting is a lapse in proofreading, not evidence that rpi-update is 'safe'.)

incognitum
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:34 pm

Re: After rpi-update USB boot doesn't work

Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:37 pm

I don't think using rpi-update itself is a big problem.
If people would no longer use it, bugs may no longer be noticed early.

Could use some documentation on how to recover the system if things go wrong though.

User avatar
rpdom
Posts: 14436
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 5:17 am
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

Re: After rpi-update USB boot doesn't work

Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:18 pm

incognitum wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:37 pm
I don't think using rpi-update itself is a big problem.
If people would no longer use it, bugs may no longer be noticed early.

Could use some documentation on how to recover the system if things go wrong though.
The idea is that people who should be using rpi-update are those who will be checking for bugs and are experienced enough to be able to recover the system without help.

Once the bugs have been identified and fixed, the kernel and firmware/bootloader will be released as a package for general use.

incognitum
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:34 pm

Re: After rpi-update USB boot doesn't work

Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:30 pm

rpdom wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:18 pm
The idea is that people who should be using rpi-update are those who will be checking for bugs and are experienced enough to be able to recover the system without help.

Once the bugs have been identified and fixed, the kernel and firmware/bootloader will be released as a package for general use.
With all due respect to the "more experienced people", chances are high they will not be able to catch all bugs.
E.g. what if the USB boot bug mentioned in this thread, is timing specific, and only occurs with a particular model USB drive?!
Then the bug would remain undetected and be included in the next general use package...

So I do think it is good that rpi-update is used by a wide range of users.
If people do not know how to fix a bricked system, then that is a good opportunity to educate them how to do so, instead of saying that rpi-update is not for them.

hippy
Posts: 5350
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: After rpi-update USB boot doesn't work

Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:42 pm

incognitum wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:30 pm
If people do not know how to fix a bricked system, then that is a good opportunity to educate them how to do so, instead of saying that rpi-update is not for them.
In my opinion; prevention is better than cure.

No one is advocating removing the ability to run latest or other firmware, just making it more difficult for users to be misled into doing something which they will come to regret.

LTolledo
Posts: 1534
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:29 am

Re: After rpi-update USB boot doesn't work

Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:29 pm

hippy wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:42 pm
......just making it more difficult for users to be misled into doing something which they will come to regret.
yup that's the one!

most us "normal users" are not "bug-hunters"....(did you "invested" on the RPi just to find "software bugs"?)
lets leave the bug-hunting to the "experts"....

...and do rpi-update if (and only if) specifically instructed to do so by the RPF engineers/staff.
"Don't come to me with 'issues' for I don't know how to deal with those
Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

Some people be like:
"Help me! Am drowning! But dont you dare touch me nor come near me!"

Return to “Advanced users”