Endgame
Posts: 32
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Re: Maximum stable overclocking speed of a Pi 4 or 400

Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:12 pm

I don’t know how you guys are getting stable over clocks at such high speeds. I’ve got 17 pi 4s here of various capacity, and none are stable above 2050mhz with heat sink and fan at 100% CPU running Rosetta at home. They will make it 4-7 days and then lock up at higher speeds.

jamesh
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Re: Maximum stable overclocking speed of a Pi 4 or 400

Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:23 pm

thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:07 am
Gavinmc42 wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:44 pm
Many overclockers seem to be pushing more than 2GHz.
Yep.

CM4: 2250000 2250000 2250000 2250000
RPI4B: 1900000 1900000 1900000 1900000

Both are stable under a stress test.

How do I find out the PCB revision? REV 1.0 isn't the same, right?
https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... /README.md
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cleverca22
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Re: Maximum stable overclocking speed of a Pi 4 or 400

Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:55 pm

Endgame wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:12 pm
I don’t know how you guys are getting stable over clocks at such high speeds. I’ve got 17 pi 4s here of various capacity, and none are stable above 2050mhz with heat sink and fan at 100% CPU running Rosetta at home. They will make it 4-7 days and then lock up at higher speeds.
Some of these users may only be testing it for 5 minutes....

thatchunkylad198966
Posts: 576
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Location: UK, Birmingham

Re: Maximum stable overclocking speed of a Pi 4 or 400

Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:21 pm

jamesh wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:23 pm
thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:07 am
Gavinmc42 wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:44 pm
Many overclockers seem to be pushing more than 2GHz.
Yep.

CM4: 2250000 2250000 2250000 2250000
RPI4B: 1900000 1900000 1900000 1900000

Both are stable under a stress test.

How do I find out the PCB revision? REV 1.0 isn't the same, right?
https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... /README.md
Thanks!

Code: Select all

Hardware	: BCM2835
Revision	: d03140
Serial		: 1000000086f182ab
Model		: Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4 Rev 1.0
What's the latest revision?
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aBUGSworstnightmare
Posts: 3206
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Re: Maximum stable overclocking speed of a Pi 4 or 400

Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:18 pm

cleverca22 wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:55 pm
Endgame wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:12 pm
I don’t know how you guys are getting stable over clocks at such high speeds. I’ve got 17 pi 4s here of various capacity, and none are stable above 2050mhz with heat sink and fan at 100% CPU running Rosetta at home. They will make it 4-7 days and then lock up at higher speeds.
Some of these users may only be testing it for 5 minutes....
i did another kernel compile this afternoon on an RPi4/2GB in an armour case. Outside air temp was 37.8°C (sitting outside on the terrace), that Pi is overclocked to 2GHz/over_voltage 6 like all me RPi4/CM4/Pi400.

Took the picture when it reached 80`C and started thermal trotteling. I then brought a 80mm battery powered fan and the temp dropped to around 65°C. A full kernel compile usually takes more than an hour to complete, never experienced an issue at this overclocking level.
Will need good cooling so and don't touch the armor case when CPU temperature is reported 80°C; you will regret it!
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thatchunkylad198966
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Re: Maximum stable overclocking speed of a Pi 4 or 400

Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:01 pm

cleverca22 wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:55 pm
Endgame wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:12 pm
I don’t know how you guys are getting stable over clocks at such high speeds. I’ve got 17 pi 4s here of various capacity, and none are stable above 2050mhz with heat sink and fan at 100% CPU running Rosetta at home. They will make it 4-7 days and then lock up at higher speeds.
Some of these users may only be testing it for 5 minutes....
Yep! So if you don't fully stress test your overclock and you think it's stable, it's most likely not stable! ;)
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davidcoton
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Re: Maximum stable overclocking speed of a Pi 4 or 400

Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:50 pm

thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:01 pm
cleverca22 wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:55 pm
Endgame wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:12 pm
I don’t know how you guys are getting stable over clocks at such high speeds. I’ve got 17 pi 4s here of various capacity, and none are stable above 2050mhz with heat sink and fan at 100% CPU running Rosetta at home. They will make it 4-7 days and then lock up at higher speeds.
Some of these users may only be testing it for 5 minutes....
Yep! So if you don't fully stress test your overclock and you think it's stable, it's most likely not stable! ;)
The only important stress test is the software you want to run, with the Pi in the conditions you want to give it, with all variables in the worst case condition. Any other stress test is at best indicative and at worst wrong.
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thatchunkylad198966
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Location: UK, Birmingham

Re: Maximum stable overclocking speed of a Pi 4 or 400

Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:21 pm

So, I've just spent the last hour seeing what OC I can get on a CM4. results are shocking compared to what some are getting on a RPI4.

I can NOT go past 2300. I'm sat at 2250 with an over_voltage of 12.
If I increase the 2275 and over_voltage above 13, it never boots into the OS.

I ran a stress test under 2250 and 12 volts and it doesn't crash.

Code: Select all

My revision is: Hardware	: BCM2835
Revision	: d03140
Serial		: 1000000086f182ab
Model		: Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4 Rev 1.0
What's stopping me from going higher?
ALL I can think of is I'm on the eeprom that was shipped with the board, 17th of March iirc.

I'm using a 12V6A PSU and NVMe.
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aBUGSworstnightmare
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Re: Maximum stable overclocking speed of a Pi 4 or 400

Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:08 pm

thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:21 pm
What's stopping me from going higher?
ALL I can think of is I'm on the eeprom that was shipped with the board, 17th of March iirc.

I'm using a 12V6A PSU and NVMe.
silicon lottery! Same are able to go higher, others not!

jamesh
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Re: Maximum stable overclocking speed of a Pi 4 or 400

Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:22 pm

thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:21 pm
So, I've just spent the last hour seeing what OC I can get on a CM4. results are shocking compared to what some are getting on a RPI4.

I can NOT go past 2300. I'm sat at 2250 with an over_voltage of 12.
If I increase the 2275 and over_voltage above 13, it never boots into the OS.

I ran a stress test under 2250 and 12 volts and it doesn't crash.

Code: Select all

My revision is: Hardware	: BCM2835
Revision	: d03140
Serial		: 1000000086f182ab
Model		: Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4 Rev 1.0
What's stopping me from going higher?
ALL I can think of is I'm on the eeprom that was shipped with the board, 17th of March iirc.

I'm using a 12V6A PSU and NVMe.
Why are you shocked that a chip specced for 1500Mhz is flaky at 2300?
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Working in the Application's Team.

thatchunkylad198966
Posts: 576
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Location: UK, Birmingham

Re: Maximum stable overclocking speed of a Pi 4 or 400

Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:11 pm

jamesh wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:22 pm
thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:21 pm
So, I've just spent the last hour seeing what OC I can get on a CM4. results are shocking compared to what some are getting on a RPI4.

I can NOT go past 2300. I'm sat at 2250 with an over_voltage of 12.
If I increase the 2275 and over_voltage above 13, it never boots into the OS.

I ran a stress test under 2250 and 12 volts and it doesn't crash.

Code: Select all

My revision is: Hardware	: BCM2835
Revision	: d03140
Serial		: 1000000086f182ab
Model		: Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4 Rev 1.0
What's stopping me from going higher?
ALL I can think of is I'm on the eeprom that was shipped with the board, 17th of March iirc.

I'm using a 12V6A PSU and NVMe.
Why are you shocked that a chip specced for 1500Mhz is flaky at 2300?
Not shocked, more like disappointed. some are able to get 2400 on an RPi4 8GB, I'm on a CM4 with a "newer" revision and can't go past 2250.
Also depends on revision of the PCB, latest ones *might* go higher.
So, I updated to the latest BETA eeprom, set my OC to 2300 and reboot. it booted into the OS without crashing.
So, it's something to do with the early eeprom that the board was shipped with.
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davidcoton
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Re: Maximum stable overclocking speed of a Pi 4 or 400

Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:25 pm

thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:11 pm
Also depends on revision of the PCB, latest ones *might* go higher.
So, I updated to the latest BETA eeprom, set my OC to 2300 and reboot. it booted into the OS without crashing.
So, it's something to do with the early eeprom that the board was shipped with.
That is a non-sequiter. It is, as far as we can tell from what has been said, something to do with the revision of the board (hardware). Quite possibly power supply arrangements, but could be something else. However, new code in the EEPROM is required to make full use of the new arrangement.
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thatchunkylad198966
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Location: UK, Birmingham

Re: Maximum stable overclocking speed of a Pi 4 or 400

Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:41 pm

davidcoton wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:25 pm
thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:11 pm
Also depends on revision of the PCB, latest ones *might* go higher.
So, I updated to the latest BETA eeprom, set my OC to 2300 and reboot. it booted into the OS without crashing.
So, it's something to do with the early eeprom that the board was shipped with.
That is a non-sequiter. It is, as far as we can tell from what has been said, something to do with the revision of the board (hardware). Quite possibly power supply arrangements, but could be something else. However, new code in the EEPROM is required to make full use of the new arrangement.
Idk, but... I couldn't boot at 2300 when I was on the old eeprom, now it's been updated; it boots fine. :?
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Gavinmc42
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Re: Maximum stable overclocking speed of a Pi 4 or 400

Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:35 am

So what is the highest everyone can go?
2000, 2100, 2200, 2300?

Is it different for B0 and C0 SoC and 32 or 64bit OS.
B0 and 32 bit verses C0 and 64bit, without and without heatsinking.
Will there be a D revision?
Will C0 get get spec change to 2.000GHz?

Out of the box the Pi400 would have to be the mostly overclockable without extra stuff added.
Comparing a Pi4 against a Pi400 or CM4 is unfair.
The CM4 has the least thermal area for heat dissipation.
Anyone embedding the CM4 into a gadget would know that and heatsink accordingly.

It would probably also depend on tricks in the OS that shut things down when not used.
So testing the best thermally equipped Pi out of the box, the Pi400 seems to me it should be the benchmark.
Pi4's end up used in 1000s of different cases, heatsinks and fans combos.
Ambient temp and air circulation plays a big part, while a Pi400 is sort of sealed.

Any stress test based on software is going to vary.
So what is the standardized stress test software to run on a standard Pi400?

Anyone disappointed should move to the Pico, 400MHz + on a 100Mhz part :D
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Imperf3kt
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Re: Maximum stable overclocking speed of a Pi 4 or 400

Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:58 am

thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:21 pm
I'm using a 12V6A PSU and NVMe.
How is your Pi not dead?
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Gavinmc42
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Re: Maximum stable overclocking speed of a Pi 4 or 400

Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:11 am

How is your Pi not dead?
Probably using CM4 and CM4 I/O board.
12V needed for PCIe and 6amps for external drives etc.
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Endgame
Posts: 32
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Re: Maximum stable overclocking speed of a Pi 4 or 400

Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:26 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:35 am
So what is the highest everyone can go?
2000, 2100, 2200, 2300?

Is it different for B0 and C0 SoC and 32 or 64bit OS.
B0 and 32 bit verses C0 and 64bit, without and without heatsinking.
Will there be a D revision?
Will C0 get get spec change to 2.000GHz?

Out of the box the Pi400 would have to be the mostly overclockable without extra stuff added.
Comparing a Pi4 against a Pi400 or CM4 is unfair.
The CM4 has the least thermal area for heat dissipation.
Anyone embedding the CM4 into a gadget would know that and heatsink accordingly.

It would probably also depend on tricks in the OS that shut things down when not used.
So testing the best thermally equipped Pi out of the box, the Pi400 seems to me it should be the benchmark.
Pi4's end up used in 1000s of different cases, heatsinks and fans combos.
Ambient temp and air circulation plays a big part, while a Pi400 is sort of sealed.

Any stress test based on software is going to vary.
So what is the standardized stress test software to run on a standard Pi400?

Anyone disappointed should move to the Pico, 400MHz + on a 100Mhz part :D
For standardized software; I recommend either Rosetta@home (8gb or 4gb pi with zram) or world community grid open pandemics (2GB pi). Let it run at 4 threads at 100% CPU for 10’ days. 10 days seems to be the wall - if it runs longer than 10 days, the overclock is stable. If it’s not, it will lock up before then, or start throwing out invalid work units.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Maximum stable overclocking speed of a Pi 4 or 400

Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:36 am

10 days seems to be the wall
Hmm, run for 10 days at 2000, then 10 days another at 2100, this might take some time.

If my Pi400 Keyboard fails then it might get repurposed.

Start higher freq and work down?
Will that thermally damage the Pi?
How to detect thermal throttling?
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cleverca22
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Re: Maximum stable overclocking speed of a Pi 4 or 400

Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:15 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:36 am
How to detect thermal throttling?

Code: Select all

root@pi400:~# vcgencmd get_throttled
throttled=0x0
root@pi400:~# 
if that returns a non-zero status, then some kind of throttling has happened
if the soc gets too hot, it will limit the clock freq, which prevents it from getting hot enough to cause damage

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Maximum stable overclocking speed of a Pi 4 or 400

Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:34 am

vcgencmd get_throttled
Hmm, use watch to monitor and log this and temperature into a csv file.
Every 60 seconds enough or 10 seconds be better?
I wonder what temp the uSD card gets too?
Log to external USB drive on a cable?

I wonder how many temperature issues are uSD and not SoC.
Stick heatsink on the uSD :lol:
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cleverca22
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Re: Maximum stable overclocking speed of a Pi 4 or 400

Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:44 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:34 am
vcgencmd get_throttled
Hmm, use watch to monitor and log this and temperature into a csv file.
Every 60 seconds enough or 10 seconds be better?
I wonder what temp the uSD card gets too?
Log to external USB drive on a cable?

I wonder how many temperature issues are uSD and not SoC.
Stick heatsink on the uSD :lol:
the throttled bit in that status is sticky, so if it has ever throttled, the number will be stuck at non-zero until you reboot

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Maximum stable overclocking speed of a Pi 4 or 400

Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:46 am

I guess logging will only work if it is temperature throttled.
If the SoC/CPU's or RAM or cache fail it won't be detected.
So some sort of external watchdog alarm, reset by a GPIO pin toggle?
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thatchunkylad198966
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Re: Maximum stable overclocking speed of a Pi 4 or 400

Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:04 am

Imperf3kt wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:58 am
thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:21 pm
I'm using a 12V6A PSU and NVMe.
How is your Pi not dead?

Excuse me?
It's a CM4 with the IO BOARD.
Gavinmc42 wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:35 am
So what is the highest everyone can go?
2000, 2100, 2200, 2300?

Is it different for B0 and C0 SoC and 32 or 64bit OS.
B0 and 32 bit verses C0 and 64bit, without and without heatsinking.
Will there be a D revision?
Will C0 get get spec change to 2.000GHz?

Out of the box the Pi400 would have to be the mostly overclockable without extra stuff added.
Comparing a Pi4 against a Pi400 or CM4 is unfair.
The CM4 has the least thermal area for heat dissipation.
Anyone embedding the CM4 into a gadget would know that and heatsink accordingly.

It would probably also depend on tricks in the OS that shut things down when not used.
So testing the best thermally equipped Pi out of the box, the Pi400 seems to me it should be the benchmark.
Pi4's end up used in 1000s of different cases, heatsinks and fans combos.
Ambient temp and air circulation plays a big part, while a Pi400 is sort of sealed.

Any stress test based on software is going to vary.
So what is the standardized stress test software to run on a standard Pi400?

Anyone disappointed should move to the Pico, 400MHz + on a 100Mhz part :D
Now I have the eeprom updated, I'll be seeing what OC I can get.
2300 seems fine atm.

Also, I'd like to know a proper way to stress test.
I'll probably try a kernel compile.
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bensimmo
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Re: Maximum stable overclocking speed of a Pi 4 or 400

Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:44 am

Various firmwares had hard set max limits, it started at 1750 if I remember correctly (original Pi4) and then that got changed as time past etc.

I think they've done some SDRAM timing tinkering recently too in the betas.

jamesh
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Re: Maximum stable overclocking speed of a Pi 4 or 400

Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:46 am

The Cm4 doesn't have the size of the Pi4, and cannot cool as effectively, so you might need extra cooling.
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