user12345
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Buster OS Bugs

Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:07 pm

Hello,

I just want try if a Bug is fixed on PI4 and got hundred new Bugs to solve.
First i wonder where is the reason to require Buster for PI4? If i installed the new Firmware(rpi-update) the old OS should work.
But it dont install all required files on Boot kernel8.img for example is missing(Boot is 104MB size and enough free).

Of course like everytime apt update/apt upgrade (to buster) ends in a unbootable system.
So i try to reinstall anything and alot stuff dont work.
Its not a good way to force people to use a new OS if the user cant keep its installed&configured stuff.

-Booting without a Monitor/TV is broken require hdmi_force_hotplug=1
-Disabling Modules with blacklist is impossible, bluetooth&wifi need disabled by dtoverlay

-x11vnc has garbage graphic at changed positions how to fix that? (disable this V3D overlay,framebuffer=1, framebuffer_max in config.txt &
-xinerama -xwarppointer for vnc dont help) disable second HDMI?
Another user reported this Bug already in November in this forum: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... p?t=256266
PI4GFXBugVNC.jpg
PI4GFXBugVNC.jpg (39.7 KiB) Viewed 1250 times
For no reason raspbian has updatet libvncserver, x11vnc is still the old. Its maybe broken by gcc-arm bugs(only happends on arm systems).
Solution:
To get it working you need the old Version, for this you need the versions from jessi "Solution for broken/missing Software of Buster"
is required first. Then:
apt-get remove libvncserver1 (x11vnc will removed too)
apt-get install libvncserver0=0.9.9+dfsq2-6.1+deb8u6 x11vnc=0.9.13-1.2 x11vnc-data=0.9.13-1.2


-desktop entrys (copyed from Jessi worked before) i get ask everytime if i want execute/execute/open/abort. That is defined in the Desktop file inself but Buster dont get it, how to fix that?

-much power consumption, underclocking arm, gpu dont help much
-shutdown dont really works Network chip seems not switched off, consume more power when switched off(1.3W)
than a PI2 requires at idle when working.

-samba no access from Windows Solution: add "ntlm auth=yes" to samba.conf.

-Is it possible to install old Versions of Dolphin/KWrite/Apache2 via apt? They are broken.
I know its the fault of other stupid developers that think you need no root and have todo all with a sick commandline&tools.
And for Apache2 they break of course again the compatiblity with the config and are not even able to print a readable error message.
If not, i made a Binary patch to run Dolphin/KWrite as root but the graphics are missing cause there are some Env Variables are missing. (replace getuid with getpid in kwrite/libkdeinit5_dolphin.so with a Hexeditor)
I add them under sudors and with export but the icons shows only show up under one shell.
How to add a real Global Env for the whole system(any Shells, any Desktops)?
For Dolphin the solution is with "sudo pkexec env DISPLAY=$DISPLAY XAUTHORITY=$XAUTHORITY QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME=qt5ct dolphin"

Solution for broken/missing Software of Buster:
Copy the line with Buster in /etc/apt/sources.list, paste it at the bottom of the file, now change "buster" to "jessie".
Do apt-get update.
Missing Software like php5 is now available again.
Install older/working versions of Software (limited in age but at last this gives you 2 versions):
if you have the new Version already install purge it.
apt-cache showpkg <package-name> lists all available versions
apt-get install <package-name>=<package-version-number> installs a older Version
example: apt-get install apache2=2.4.10-10+deb8u16


Cause the is a lot of offtopic without any solution, i post the Solutions(that i find myself or on other places) here on Top.
Thanks to morsix and unknown at askubuntu.com
Last edited by user12345 on Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:29 am, edited 6 times in total.

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mahjongg
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Re: Buster OS Bugs

Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:47 pm

user12345 wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:07 pm

First i wonder where is the reason to require Buster for PI4? If i installed the new Firmware(rpi-update) the old OS should work.
When a new RPI is released it is released with a new version of Raspbian, because older versions are incompatible with the new hardware!
Raspbian is backwards compatible with all older RPI versions, but older versions are *never* forwards compatible with later unreleased hardware, as the hardware developers cannot look into the future .

Therefore a RPI4 is NOT compatible with any versions of Raspbian that appeared before its launch. :roll:

user12345
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Re: Buster OS Bugs

Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:58 pm

mahjongg wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:47 pm
When a new RPI is released it is released with a new version of Raspbian, because older versions are incompatible with the new hardware!
Raspbian is backwards compatible with all older RPI versions, but older versions are *never* forwards compatible with later unreleased hardware, as the hardware developers cannot look into the future .
Wasnt Jessi released on RPI2 and still runs on RPI3, and wheezy works on PI1&2.
Firmware/Kernel(rpi-update) include all drivers&librarys what have the Operating System todo with the Hardware? Its another layer.
Exept of features that i dont need like Dual Monitor/4k/3D.

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Re: Buster OS Bugs

Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:06 pm

user12345 wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:58 pm
mahjongg wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:47 pm
When a new RPI is released it is released with a new version of Raspbian, because older versions are incompatible with the new hardware!
Raspbian is backwards compatible with all older RPI versions, but older versions are *never* forwards compatible with later unreleased hardware, as the hardware developers cannot look into the future .
Wasnt Jessi released on RPI2 and still runs on RPI3, and wheezy works on PI1&2.
Firmware/Kernel(rpi-update) include all drivers&librarys what have the Operating System todo with the Hardware? Its another layer.
Exept of features that i dont need like Dual Monitor/4k/3D.

Yes you are correct, but it was never "officially" supported. rpi-update should only be used under advisement, it is not a standard recommended update feature.


The 4B is extensively different hardware to previous Raspberry Pis, therefore only Raspbian Buster has the requisite drivers / firmware.
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thagrol
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Re: Buster OS Bugs

Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:44 pm

user12345 wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:58 pm
mahjongg wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:47 pm
When a new RPI is released it is released with a new version of Raspbian, because older versions are incompatible with the new hardware!
Raspbian is backwards compatible with all older RPI versions, but older versions are *never* forwards compatible with later unreleased hardware, as the hardware developers cannot look into the future .
Wasnt Jessi released on RPI2 and still runs on RPI3, and wheezy works on PI1&2.
Different situation. Stretch was a long way off when the 3B launched so there was no choice but to patch jessie. Pi 3 launched 29 February 2016, Stretch (Debian official) didn't launch until June 17th, 2017 (Sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi#Post-launch and https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/ )

FWIW, buster runs on all Pi models including the original v1. Not sure what your point is above. And you shouldn't really be using either Jessie or Wheezy given their age and lack of support. Or Stretch for that matter.
Firmware/Kernel(rpi-update) include all drivers&librarys
Nope. AIUI rpi-update onyl gets you patches/kernel/drivers from the bleeding edge/testing branch of the same OS release. If jessie doesn't have the drivers you need rpi-update won't get them for you. If jessie does but they've not yet been commited to the main/stable branch it will.
what have the Operating System todo with the Hardware?
Everything. Firmware != kernel. The kernel and drivers are part of the OS. Firmware in the case of 3B+ and earlier is what's burnt into the SoC to handle the initial bootstrap. On the 4B it's that plus what's in the EEPROM.
Its another layer. Exept of features that i dont need like Dual Monitor/4k/3D.
It's way more complicated than that. New CPU version, new GPU version, new USB controller connected by a different interface, new ethernet controller connected by a different interface, new power control circuit, new alt functions for GPIO, etc. Backporting that would be a lot of additional work especially as a new debian version was about to drop.

And that not metioning all the other updates and security fixes in a new Debian relase.

If you realy want jessie (or god forbid wheezy) on a 4B grab both sets of source code and back port the changes yourself. Good luck with that.
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user12345
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Re: Buster OS Bugs

Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:15 pm

thagrol wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:44 pm
If you realy want jessie (or god forbid wheezy) on a 4B grab both sets of source code and back port the changes yourself. Good luck with that.
The Problem is that the developer builds in alot of new bugs. The simplest things like x11vnc doesnt work right.
You talk about security fixes(that you still get for jessie too) that the most users doesnt need. A pi is usual behind a router that
includes a Hardware Firewall and doesnt reachable from outside.
I dont want to know how much security bugs are in Buster if i just need some hours to find a bunch of visible Bugs.
Software grows=Bugs grows.

I doesnt have the time for a back port, i just want test the PI4 against a bug that PI2 and PI3 have(all Firmware/Kernel/OS Versions).
If i dont get the PI4 in a useable state i can send it back.

So please back to the Bugs, its told now often enough that PI4 only work with Buster.

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Re: Buster OS Bugs

Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:24 pm

user12345 wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:07 pm
Hello,

I just want try if a Bug is fixed on PI4 and got hundred new Bugs to solve.
First i wonder where is the reason to require Buster for PI4? If i installed the new Firmware(rpi-update) the old OS should work.
But it dont install all required files on Boot kernel8.img for example is missing(Boot is 104MB size and enough free).

Of course like everytime apt update/apt upgrade (to buster) ends in a unbootable system.
So i try to reinstall anything and alot stuff dont work.
Its not a good way to force people to use a new OS if the user cant keep its installed&configured stuff.

-Booting without a Monitor/TV is broken require hdmi_force_hotplug=1
-Disabling Modules with blacklist is impossible, bluetooth&wifi need disabled by dtoverlay

-x11vnc has garbage graphic at changed positions how to fix that? (disable this V3D overlay in config.txt dont help) disable second HDMI?
-desktop entrys (copyed from Jessi worked before) i get ask everytime if i want execute/execute/open/abort. That is defined in the Desktop file inself but Buster dont get it, how to fix that?

-Is it possible to install old Versions of Dolphin/KWrite/Apache2 via apt? They are broken.
I know its the fault of other stupid developers that think you need no root and have todo all with a sick commandline&tools.
And for Apache2 they break of course again the compatiblity with the config and are not even able to print a readable error message.
If not, i made a Binary patch to run Dolphin/KWrite as root but the graphics are missing cause there are some Env Variables are missing.
I add them under sudors and with export but the icons shows only show up under one shell.
How to add a real Global Env for the whole system(any Shells, any Desktops)?
One of the major reasons is the move to the new graphics driver that requires a very recent version of Mesa which in turn requires a very recent os version.
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user12345
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Re: Buster OS Bugs

Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:38 am

jamesh wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:24 pm
One of the major reasons is the move to the new graphics driver that requires a very recent version of Mesa which in turn requires a very recent os version.
I suprise a little about 2 HDMI cause you get a used Computer/Notebook cheaper then a 4GB Model+PSU+Cables+SDCard+Cooler+Case+Fan, most times rpi is used as an IOT device.
And this driver about you talk is broken cause VNC dont work? I attached a picture about the error above.

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Re: Buster OS Bugs

Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:07 pm

user12345 wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:38 am
jamesh wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:24 pm
One of the major reasons is the move to the new graphics driver that requires a very recent version of Mesa which in turn requires a very recent os version.
I suprise a little about 2 HDMI cause you get a used Computer/Notebook cheaper then a 4GB Model+PSU+Cables+SDCard+Cooler+Case+Fan, most times rpi is used as an IOT device.
Do you have any evidence for that claim or are you making a general claim based on your use case?
And this driver about you talk is broken cause VNC dont work? I attached a picture about the error above.
No. You rewrote your entire first post.

I'm curious as to why.
Last edited by thagrol on Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Buster OS Bugs

Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:19 pm

user12345 wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:15 pm
Software grows=Bugs grows.
That's often, but not always, the case.
I doesnt have the time for a back port, i just want test the PI4 against a bug that PI2 and PI3 have(all Firmware/Kernel/OS Versions).
What makes you think anyone else has the time to do it for you? As for the unspecified bug, if it's present in "all Firmware/Kernel/OS Versions", you should be testing for it on 4B and Buster. Testing with stretch, jessie, or wheezy won't really tell you anything useful.

4B needs buster. End of. Test for this bug with that. You then have two choices: backport all the buster changes to jessie or port your software to buster.
If i dont get the PI4 in a useable state i can send it back.
You can try, but unless it's faulty hardware I doubt you'll have much success.
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Re: Buster OS Bugs

Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:29 pm

thagrol wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:07 pm
No. You rewrote your entire first post.

I'm curious as to why.
I attached the Picture, add solutions for running KWrite&Dolpin with root and how to workaround the missing icons of dolpin.
Thats cause to help other people that forced to use Buster, they will have the same Problems.
I seen already of 2 people with similar vnc problems on rpi3b+, cause vnc works with jessi+Kernel 4.19 its a Buster OS Bug.

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Re: Buster OS Bugs

Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:35 pm

To address some of the points in your revised post:
user12345 wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:07 pm
Hello,

I just want try if a Bug is fixed on PI4 and got hundred new Bugs to solve.
First i wonder where is the reason to require Buster for PI4? If i installed the new Firmware(rpi-update) the old OS should work.
But it dont install all required files on Boot kernel8.img for example is missing(Boot is 104MB size and enough free).

Of course like everytime apt update/apt upgrade (to buster) ends in a unbootable system.
That is not a supported route and was never guaranteed to work.
So i try to reinstall anything and alot stuff dont work.
No bacakup before attempting to upgrade? And exactly how did you try?
Its not a good way to force people to use a new OS if the user cant keep its installed&configured stuff.
Perhaps not. But RPF isn't the only one who has had to do things this way.
-Booting without a Monitor/TV is broken require hdmi_force_hotplug=1
Works for me but I don't use X11-vnc. AFAIK it's to do with there being no frame buffer created unless that config.txt line is present or a monitor is connected. X11-vnc needs a frame buffer as it exports the console.

If you don't like having that config.txt entry (why? it's a trivial change) there are other vnc servers that don't expose the console so don't need the frame buffer to exist.
-Disabling Modules with blacklist is impossible, bluetooth&wifi need disabled by dtoverlay
Never tried witha blacklist. What's so bad about using config.txt?
-x11vnc has garbage graphic at changed positions how to fix that? (disable this V3D overlay,framebuffer=1, framebuffer_max in config.txt & -xinerama -xwarppointer for vnc dont help) disable second HDMI?
-desktop entrys (copyed from Jessi worked before) i get ask everytime if i want execute/execute/open/abort. That is defined in the Desktop file inself but Buster dont get it, how to fix that?
Can't comment as I don't use these.
-Is it possible to install old Versions of Dolphin/KWrite/Apache2 via apt? They are broken.
I know its the fault of other stupid developers that think you need no root and have todo all with a sick commandline&tools.
And for Apache2 they break of course again the compatiblity with the config and are not even able to print a readable error message.
If not, i made a Binary patch to run Dolphin/KWrite as root but the graphics are missing cause there are some Env Variables are missing. (replace getuid with getpid in kwrite/libkdeinit5_dolphin.so with a Hexeditor)
I add them under sudors and with export but the icons shows only show up under one shell.
How to add a real Global Env for the whole system(any Shells, any Desktops)?
For Dolphin the solution is with "sudo pkexec env DISPLAY=$DISPLAY XAUTHORITY=$XAUTHORITY QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME=qt5ct dolphin"
Can't really comment on these as I also don't use them. I would suggest you ask on the relevant support forums for those apps rather than whinging here.

If you realy want the old version and can't get them through apt (try reading the manuals it may be possible to specify a package version) you have the option of building from source. don't have the time? I doubt anyone has the time to do it for you.
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Re: Buster OS Bugs

Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:39 pm

user12345 wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:29 pm
thagrol wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:07 pm
No. You rewrote your entire first post.

I'm curious as to why.
I attached the Picture, add solutions for running KWrite&Dolpin with root and how to workaround the missing icons of dolpin.
Thats cause to help other people that forced to use Buster, they will have the same Problems.
I seen already of 2 people with similar vnc problems on rpi3b+, cause vnc works with jessi+Kernel 4.19 its a Buster OS Bug.

In your first post you said you did an rpi-update.

Doesn’t that immediately put you in “you’re on your own” territory?

Some of the other “bugs” you mentioned, booting without a monitor not working, VNC not working, all work just fine for me on my not-rpi-updated Pi4 with Buster.

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Re: Buster OS Bugs

Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:44 pm

It would appear the OP is trying to create a "Frankenstein" Operating System and Installed Software.


RPF / RPT have spent many hours tweaking Raspbian Buster, whilst RealVNC have spent many hours tweaking their VNC implementation.


So bottom line if one is wanting to use "generic" software then one has to spend the time and effort to get it working, not expect someone else to do it for them.
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Re: Buster OS Bugs

Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:48 pm

thagrol wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:19 pm
4B needs buster. End of. Test for this bug with that. You then have two choices: backport all the buster changes to jessie or port your software to buster.
If buster would not be so buggy it would no problem.

thagrol wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:19 pm
You can try, but unless it's faulty hardware I doubt you'll have much success.
We have some stricter laws in Gemany for that.
The first thing is you can send it back if you dont like it within 14 days. In X-Mas times this time extends to for most suppliers.
The second is the PI4 Hardware is broken by design, its annouced to work at 1.5GHZ. This doesnt work without cooler/fan or metal casing.
In the best case the gpu/cpu trottle down to protect from getting brocken, that means it doesnt run at 1.5GHZ.
In German this means you can give it back within 2 years. And the warranty is too about Software, a Television has too software, if the Television crash while watching a movie i can give it back within 3 years(TV has longer warranty).
thagrol wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:35 pm
That is not a supported route and was never guaranteed to work.
Why the user can enter apt dist-upgrade if it destroy the system?!
thagrol wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:35 pm
No bacakup before attempting to upgrade? And exactly how did you try?
Of course i used a clone SD Card for the Upgrade experiment.
change apt sources from jessi to buster, apt update, apt upgrade
thagrol wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:35 pm
If you don't like having that config.txt entry (why? it's a trivial change) there are other vnc servers that don't expose the console so don't need the frame buffer to exist.
The config entry is not the problem, its breaking compatiblity. It works without the entry on PI1/PI2/PI3 wheezy/jessie.
thagrol wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:35 pm
Never tried witha blacklist. What's so bad about using config.txt?
Same like above. But blacklist is broken, if i want a module go away it should be away.
thagrol wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:35 pm
If you realy want the old version and can't get them through apt (try reading the manuals it may be possible to specify a package version) you have the option of building from source. don't have the time? I doubt anyone has the time to do it for you.
yes from source this sometimes work for linux, but where to get the old sources?
Last edited by user12345 on Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Buster OS Bugs

Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:54 pm

No discern-able bugs on my RPi4B-4G (now using as Kodi player while I type away on this RPi3B)
when not using Kodi on the RPi4B-4G, I connected to other RPi (ZW, RPi1B+, RPiA+, RPi3B, RPi3B+, RPi4B-2G) via VNC.... sorry.... worked fine with me, gained access to all (some were still running stretch and at lone unit still running on Jessie).

@OP, you specifically stated ".....hundred new Bugs to solve" :o
am interested to see those
can you enumerate at least 80 of those (in listed, non-repeating form) here on this forum? :roll:
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Re: Buster OS Bugs

Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:56 pm

user12345 wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:48 pm
thagrol wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:19 pm
4B needs buster. End of. Test for this bug with that. You then have two choices: backport all the buster changes to jessie or port your software to buster.
If buster would not be so buggy it would no problem.

We have some stricter laws in Gemany for that.
The first thing is you can send it back if you dont like it within 14 days. In X-Mas times this time extends to for most suppliers.
The second is the PI4 Hardware is broken by design, its annouced to work at 1.5GHZ. This doesnt work without cooler/fan or metal casing.
In the best case the gpu/cpu trottle down to protect from getting brocken, that means it doesnt run at 1.5GHZ.
In German this means you can give it back within 2 years. And the warranty is too about Software, a Television has too software, if the Television crash while watching a movie i can give it back within 3 years(TV has longer warranty).
Rubbish.

But I think the easiest thing is for you to return the Pi for a refund. You are clearly trying to find problems where they really don't exist, and that makes me think you are never going to get on. So just take the path of least resistance.
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fruitoftheloom
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Re: Buster OS Bugs

Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:59 pm

Buster has had many updates since release 6 months ago, and several related to 4B temperature, throttling etcetera:

https://www.seeedstudio.com/blog/2019/1 ... than-ever/

https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... pdating.md



user12345 obviously from your 70+ posts over 18 months you are not happy, then may I suggest you buy one of the other Single Board Computers available which will suit your requirements.
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Re: Buster OS Bugs

Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:04 pm

user12345 wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:48 pm
The second is the PI4 Hardware is broken by design, its annouced to work at 1.5GHZ. This doesnt work without cooler/fan or metal casing.
In the best case the gpu/cpu trottle down to protect from getting brocken, that means it doesnt run at 1.5GHZ.
This simply isn't true. The Pi4 with current firmware runs just fine at 1.5Ghz, I haven't managed to get it to thermal throttle at all since the relevant firmware update several months ago.

It might not be able to run at 100% utilization for unlimited amounts of time without throttling but neither can a MacBook or pretty much any modern laptop. Nor can your smartphone. Does that make them faulty products?

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Re: Buster OS Bugs

Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:17 pm

echmain wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:39 pm
In your first post you said you did an rpi-update.

Doesn’t that immediately put you in “you’re on your own” territory?

Some of the other “bugs” you mentioned, booting without a monitor not working, VNC not working, all work just fine for me on my not-rpi-updated Pi4 with Buster.
I did a rpi-update with jessi, that gives at least a bootable system on rpi3 but not rpi4.
The System i using now is the from there https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/raspbian/
means without rpi-update
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:44 pm
RPF / RPT have spent many hours tweaking Raspbian Buster, whilst RealVNC have spent many hours tweaking their VNC implementation.

So bottom line if one is wanting to use "generic" software then one has to spend the time and effort to get it working, not expect someone else to do it for them.
You mean i should use RealVNC instead of x11vnc?
1. i read other people already rejected this cause RealVNC doesnt do the same
2. Buster is an linux distribution why i can get Software via apt that isnt working on that system? On other Linux there are too only 1 of 5 CD Burner applications available cause they are not verified or dont work on the Distribution.
LTolledo wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:54 pm
No discern-able bugs on my RPi4B-4G (now using as Kodi player while I type away on this RPi3B)
when not using Kodi on the RPi4B-4G, I connected to other RPi (ZW, RPi1B+, RPiA+, RPi3B, RPi3B+, RPi4B-2G) via VNC.... sorry.... worked fine with me, gained access to all (some were still running stretch and at lone unit still running on Jessie).
You doesnt tell witch VNC and i want view the RPI4 and not view other computers on the RPI4. The Access is too not the Problems, its the graphic errors.
See: https://github.com/LibVNC/x11vnc/issues/88
its rpi3b+ but similar.

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rpdom
Posts: 16349
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Re: Buster OS Bugs

Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:28 pm

user12345 wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:17 pm
I did a rpi-update with jessi, that gives at least a bootable system on rpi3 but not rpi4.
Why would you think that would give you a bootable Pi 4B system?

rpi-update is used at your own discretion, with warnings that it could cause problems as the software is still being tested.

LTolledo
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Re: Buster OS Bugs

Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:43 pm

I just viewed my RPi4B-4G with buster on this RPi3B with stretch....

the problem is..... its working fine.....
RPi4BBuster_on_RPi3BStretch_via_RealVNC.jpg
RPi4BBuster_on_RPi3BStretch_via_RealVNC.jpg (148.37 KiB) Viewed 1071 times
now still waiting for your enumeration....
"Don't come to me with 'issues' for I don't know how to deal with those
Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

Some people be like:
"Help me! Am drowning! But dont you dare touch me nor come near me!"

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Buster OS Bugs

Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:46 pm

user12345 wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:17 pm
echmain wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:39 pm
In your first post you said you did an rpi-update.

Doesn’t that immediately put you in “you’re on your own” territory?

Some of the other “bugs” you mentioned, booting without a monitor not working, VNC not working, all work just fine for me on my not-rpi-updated Pi4 with Buster.
I did a rpi-update with jessi, that gives at least a bootable system on rpi3 but not rpi4.
The System i using now is the from there https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/raspbian/
means without rpi-update
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:44 pm
RPF / RPT have spent many hours tweaking Raspbian Buster, whilst RealVNC have spent many hours tweaking their VNC implementation.

So bottom line if one is wanting to use "generic" software then one has to spend the time and effort to get it working, not expect someone else to do it for them.
You mean i should use RealVNC instead of x11vnc?
1. i read other people already rejected this cause RealVNC doesnt do the same
2. Buster is an linux distribution why i can get Software via apt that isnt working on that system? On other Linux there are too only 1 of 5 CD Burner applications available cause they are not verified or dont work on the Distribution.
LTolledo wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:54 pm
No discern-able bugs on my RPi4B-4G (now using as Kodi player while I type away on this RPi3B)
when not using Kodi on the RPi4B-4G, I connected to other RPi (ZW, RPi1B+, RPiA+, RPi3B, RPi3B+, RPi4B-2G) via VNC.... sorry.... worked fine with me, gained access to all (some were still running stretch and at lone unit still running on Jessie).
You doesnt tell witch VNC and i want view the RPI4 and not view other computers on the RPI4. The Access is too not the Problems, its the graphic errors.
See: https://github.com/LibVNC/x11vnc/issues/88
its rpi3b+ but similar.

With x86 CPU machines the hardware is fairly generic.

With ARM CPU there is a plethora of implementations, and the majority are aimed towards running Android Operating System.


Obviously this will effect software compatibility and why much software has been recompiled to run on ARM, and not always by the original developers.


RPF / RPT have limited resources and have to offer a selection of software which will benefit the largest user base ie chromium-browser, VLC, RealVNC etcetera....
Retired disgracefully.....
......to an uncomplicated life !

Rather than negativity think outside the box !

user12345
Posts: 120
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:06 pm

Re: Buster OS Bugs

Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:57 pm

LTolledo wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:43 pm
I just viewed my RPi4B-4G with buster on this RPi3B with stretch....

the problem is..... its working fine.....

now still waiting for your enumeration....
Thats RealVNC not x11vnc. Its a different Software. Its was very very difficult to get it a bit working cause RealVNC dont work out of the box with other VNC Viewers.
And then suprise, its an usuable VNC. Like i read before from another user. It Displays some sort of a bad Desktop clone, but this is NOT my Desktop it looks like the the Desktop that you get on first startup with the ugly Taskbar at the Screen Top with Huge Fonts thats only useable on 4K Displays or for people that 70 years and older. And it install a number of additional stuff that consumes memory/resources like cups.

By the way for the guy who told with new firmware rpi4 runs cool, i installed the newest from Dec´19.
Its still at 67°C at idle @600MHZ maximum frequency and 4 cooler(RPI3 52°C at low load @900MHZ max). Its required to underclock the other frequencys i guess.

And here we go with krfb(another vnc server):
PI4GFXBugkrfb.jpg
PI4GFXBugkrfb.jpg (20.7 KiB) Viewed 1005 times
Of course since wheezy its not possible to save the password in krfb and it has Keyboard bugs(capslock random aktivated at bootup and its not able to deactiate without a reboot, keys sometimes repeated 2-20 times) but its just to show that this is related to buster graphics system and
not some type of hack that a single vnc server use.

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thagrol
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Contact: Website

Re: Buster OS Bugs

Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:13 pm

Not even goping to try to sort out the mess you've made of the quoting...
user12345 wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:48 pm
thagrol wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:19 pm
4B needs buster. End of. Test for this bug with that. You then have two choices: backport all the buster changes to jessie or port your software to buster.
If buster would not be so buggy it would no problem.
Evidence please. Strictly issues relating to Raspbian Buster not additional software you have installed whether from apt or not.
user12345 wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:48 pm
We have some stricter laws in Gemany for that.
The first thing is you can send it back if you dont like it within 14 days. In X-Mas times this time extends to for most suppliers.
I think you'll find that's EU law. And not at all the same as sending it back because it's broken.
user12345 wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:48 pm
The second is the PI4 Hardware is broken by design, its annouced to work at 1.5GHZ. This doesnt work without cooler/fan or metal casing.
In the best case the gpu/cpu trottle down to protect from getting brocken, that means it doesnt run at 1.5GHZ.
That's not broken by design. That's designed to prevent failure. Many laptops and desktops do the same. Would you send them back too? Or would you rather they shutdown abruptly without warning, without a chance to save your data, and without a proper OS level shutdown?

Things change. Was the move from sysV init to systemd broken by design? The change from /etc/network/interfaces to /etc/dhcpcd.conf for interface configuration? Apple's change from the 30 pin connector to the lightning connector?
user12345 wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:48 pm
In German this means you can give it back within 2 years. And the warranty is too about Software, a Television has too software, if the Television crash while watching a movie i can give it back within 3 years(TV has longer warranty).
German law may be as strict as you claim but here's the thing: A Pi (any model) and a TV are not the same when it comes to software. When you buy a TV all the software is preinstalled and may not be upgradeable. When you buy a pi 4B the only software you're buying is the initial bootstrap burnt into the SoC and the contents of the EEPROM. The second can be updated, the first can't. Raspbian isn't sold to you and isn't part of the Pi.

Clearly both of those are fit for purpose as they will boot a correctly configured OS.

Good luck proving that the Pi isn't fit for purpose based on an optional software installation. Optional because no one is forcing you to use Raspbian.

If you'd bought a windows PC would you expect to be able to return it if it didn't boot MacOS?
user12345 wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:48 pm
Why the user can enter apt dist-upgrade if it destroy the system?!
Why can the user enter "sudo rm -rf /*" if it destroys the system? And many other commands. The onus is on the user to do their own due dilligence before running anything. RPF have been very clear that while methods to upgrade from stretch to buster exist but that you're on your own if you use them.

Normal users can't run those commands. Admin (root) users can. The expectation is that admin users (on most/all platforms) know what they're doing or they wouldn't be admins.

Why on earth you thought it was sensible to try to go from jessie to buster rather than jessie to stretch to buster I don't know. Not that going vai stretch would have been any more likely to work or be supported.
user12345 wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:48 pm
Of course i used a clone SD Card for the Upgrade experiment.
change apt sources from jessi to buster, apt update, apt upgrade
So you didn't rpi-update at all then. Thanks for the confusion.
user12345 wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:48 pm
The config entry is not the problem, its breaking compatiblity. It works without the entry on PI1/PI2/PI3 wheezy/jessie.

Same like above. But blacklist is broken, if i want a module go away it should be away.
Can't comment as I not needed to use blacklists in that way. Would like to see some hard evidence to support your claim though.
user12345 wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:48 pm
yes from source this sometimes work for linux, but where to get the old sources?
How about the same place you'd get the current source: the project's website? Though frankly if you couldn't work that out for yourself linux probably isn't the OS for you.

Oh, I still waiting for the evidence to back up your claim that "most times rpi is used as an IOT device. "
Attempts to contact me outside of these forums will be ignored unless signed in triplicate, sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to public enquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters

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