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DAI-X
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PI 4 causing wifi mouse dongle freeze. Heat-related?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:40 pm

I've been having some odd issues with a Rapoo wireless mouse and keyboard (+usb dongle) on my PI 4. This combo has been used for a couple of years on a PI 3B+ with no issues.

Even with a new battery in the mouse I've been getting frequent mouse freezes (although the keyboard works). The only fix is to remove and re-insert the USB dongle which is pretty annoying

I have a fresh battery in the mouse and still getting freezes. I *suspect* it may be heat-related as those USB ports are getting really hot. I've got the dongle on a short extension cable now and so far its working well. PI 4 is mounted vertically with USB uppermost in free air.

Andyroo

Re: PI 4 causing wifi mouse dongle freeze. Heat-related?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:45 pm

Wonder if it’s a Buster quirk or a Pi quirk.

This thread https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 8&t=244073 also had mouse issues...

My Busters are headless (no Sid has not been at them with a knife) so I cannot test TBH

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DAI-X
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Re: PI 4 causing wifi mouse dongle freeze. Heat-related?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:53 pm

Interesting!

Oh and yes I have a proper Stontronics power supply - it came with my Pi 4 kit from Rapid Electronics. No lightning bolts

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DAI-X
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Re: PI 4 causing wifi mouse dongle freeze. Heat-related? (SOLVED)

Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:11 pm

I think I have fixed the problem.

I have put the USB dongle on an extension lead so it is closer to the mouse/keyboard combo and further away from the PI 4, I have not seen any mouse freezes since doing this.

It seems that the problem is interference from the PI4. Looking at other forum posts, it may be interference from the USB 3.0 ports.

jdb
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Re: PI 4 causing wifi mouse dongle freeze. Heat-related?

Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:15 pm

Do you have anything actually plugged into the USB3.0 ports? In which case, you can definitively prove that it's active USB3.0 signalling causing the interference by plugging the devices into the spare USB2.0 port.
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RPIgoodSBC
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Re: PI 4 causing wifi mouse dongle freeze. Heat-related?

Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:30 pm

USB-3 can cause Radio Frequency Interference.
Use an extensor from USB-2 ports to dongles like keyboards and mouse wireless.

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 3&t=244693

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DAI-X
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Re: PI 4 causing wifi mouse dongle freeze. Heat-related?

Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:45 pm

This is what was typically plugged in

USB 3.0 - SD card adaptor (no SD card inserted)
USB 3.0 - USB A extension lead (nothing connected to it)
USB 2.0 - Rapoo wireless keyboard/mouse dongle
USB 2.0 - USB A to micro USB lead (nothing connected to it)

Oh and I had previously disabled wifi and bluetooth as I was running off ethernet

mmeadway
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Re: PI 4 causing wifi mouse dongle freeze. Heat-related?

Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:23 pm

Thank you for posting the comment about moving the dongle -- I was having similar issues with a USB 3 SSD plugged in -- and this seems to have solved it. I simply plugged in a USB extension cable, moved the dongle about eight inches from the Pi, and the problem went away. Never would have guessed RFI!

RossDv8
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Re: PI 4 causing wifi mouse dongle freeze. Heat-related?

Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:10 am

I use a Logitech k400r (keyboard with built in trackpad) and whilst I've never had a problem with it on any of my old Pis, form the Pi B+ or whatever it was, through the Pi 2s and 3s, the Pi 4 has given me nothing but trouble. I thought it was batteries, but changed them from NiMh to recharged NiMh, with no luck. Swapped them for Alkaline, then Lithiums - and no luck.

Changed the position of the donger from USB 2 to USB 3 and back. with no real difference. But noticed some difference when the keyboard was positioned at various angles. So I tried plugging the dongle into a short USB cable, then into USB 2 and USB 3 ports.

It turned out that the wireless keyboard is more sensitive to distance, and much, much more sensitive to the relative angle of the keyboard and the dongle, than it ever was with the other Pis.

Yesterday I decided to do some work that required me to place the keyboard on a card table, rather than on my lap. I had to go through a heap of positioning and taping of the dongle and the cable to get it and the keyboard in correct relative positions to talk with each other. Even though the keyboard is about a metre closer when it is on the table! I suspect the aluminium frame of the table, while not even close to line of sight, was interfering with the wireless signal.

If I turn on my BRIX Celeron computer, at the other end of the TV from the Pi, and swap the dongle to it, there are no problems. And if I swap the dongle to the Pi 3B+, whether the Brix is On or Off, there is no problem. I only have the issue with the Pi 4.

But !!! It was relatively simple to overcome, with a short cable for the dongle - and some adhesive tape to hold the dongle in position, once I found the best spot :D
Last edited by RossDv8 on Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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bjtheone
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Re: PI 4 causing wifi mouse dongle freeze. Heat-related?

Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:09 pm

I wonder if the 4B is radiating/leaking slightly more enthusiastically than earlier Pis or if there is more variation between units.

I have a 3B+ and a 4B that have lived in exactly the same location. Both have been connected to a Logitech MX Master mouse and either a logitech K400 or microsoft multimedia keyboard. Also have a USB 3.0 SSD connected. Due to cabling convenience the Pi's live under a monitor, with the USB ports near the routers, pointed away from the actual keyboard and mouse locations. They live in a noisy location, beside 2 wireless routers, and on a desk with typically 3 other active WiFi connected computers. All wireless connections (mouse, keyboard, and network) have been flawless with both units.

Based on other complaints, I wonder if it has more to do with HDMI connected monitor's and what resolution/timing they are running at.

RossDv8
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Re: PI 4 causing wifi mouse dongle freeze. Heat-related?

Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:44 pm

Interesting thoughts. In my case, the TV/Monitor is a 55 inch UHD LED. The router is 2.5 metres left of the TV, the BRIX is 5 inches left of the TV. The Pi 3B+ is usually on the shelf the TV is on, directly in front of the TV about a foot in from the left corner and the Pi 4 is also on the shelf, about a foot in from the right corner.

Display is running at 1920x1080. The wifi k400r is 3 metres in front of the TV and i metre lower than the computers, whichever one has the dongle in it at a given time, and in clear line of sight to the dongle, with the dongle right side up and horizontal.

At 3 metres, passing my hand between the line form the right corner of the keyboard and the dongle kills the signal to the Pi 4, and as previously mentioned placing the keyboard on the card table, which has an aluminium trim all around it, kills the signal unless I position it very specifically.

Swapping to the Pi 3B+ and the keyboard seemed to work fine on the table, but I didn't check the hand interference because last times I switched them the Pi 3B+ and the Brix didn't show any fault.

I'll hook up the Pi 3 again over the weekend if I am home.
Pi 4B 4GB - system on WD 240G SSD ( but /boot on Sandisk microSD)

bjtheone
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Re: PI 4 causing wifi mouse dongle freeze. Heat-related?

Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:32 pm

I am surprised that it is that sensitive. Will do some playing around this weekend and see if I can trigger the behaviour. The Logitech receivers seem very robust (use them across a large room in 2 separate multimedia systems). Don't usually have line of site to the USB dongle on my Kodi rig.

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HawaiianPi
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Re: PI 4 causing wifi mouse dongle freeze. Heat-related?

Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:02 pm

bjtheone wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:32 pm
I am surprised that it is that sensitive.
The problem is USB 3.0 interference on the 2.4GHz band (which is where the Logitech Unifying dongles operate), and the bare bones Raspberry Pi 4B board not having much in the way of shielding. Using a short USB 2.0 extension cable works for me, but I use quality, shielded USB cables. Others have reported extension cables did not work for them, and I suspect they are using cheap, non-shielded cables.

Note that this problem in not unique to the Pi4. Some MacBook models were plagued with WiFi trouble when using USB 3.0 devices.
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diogen151
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Re: PI 4 causing wifi mouse dongle freeze. Heat-related?

Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:13 pm

Problem and solution are well described here:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en ... paper.html
comments >/dev/null ;-)

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