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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:28 pm
by bensimmo
The stick and alpha had hdmi, only the atmel thing didn't?


Why the new forum account?

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:01 pm
by rpdom
bensimmo wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:28 pm
Why the new forum account?
Because the old one had been given a holiday from the forums and "pro" thought they could sneak past the rule by creating a new account?

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:16 pm
by Dainis
Tested 4 Raspberry Pi 4 cooling options
1) Bare board, without any cooling
2) Heatsink 40x40x10
3) Fan version of Armor Aluminum Case for RPi 4, without fan
4) Fan version of Armor Aluminum Case for RPi 4
Room temperature about 22°C, stress test 600s
new4.jpg
new4.jpg (72.91 KiB) Viewed 3153 times

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:14 pm
by PeterO
rpdom wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:01 pm
bensimmo wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:28 pm
Why the new forum account?
Because the old one had been given a holiday from the forums and "pro" thought they could sneak past the rule by creating a new account?
With , one expects, predictable consequences !
PeterO

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:55 pm
by jdb
PeterO wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:14 pm
rpdom wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:01 pm
bensimmo wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:28 pm
Why the new forum account?
Because the old one had been given a holiday from the forums and "pro" thought they could sneak past the rule by creating a new account?
With , one expects, predictable consequences !
PeterO
Correct.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:43 pm
by RFBomb
PhilE wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:09 am
Hi all,

Download the archive from here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PXwrnh ... sp=sharing
With the zip file on the Pi:

Code: Select all

$ unzip vl805_update_0137a8.zip
$ chmod a+x vl805
$ sudo ./vl805 -w vl805_fw_0137a8.bin
$ sudo reboot
Hello, I am unable to flash this firmware onto my pi 4!
Following the steps above, I get a message showing this:

Code: Select all

[email protected]:~/Downloads $ sudo ./vl805 -w vl805_fw_0137a8.bin
VL805 FW version: 00013701
* failed to open 'vl805_fw_0137a8.bin'
When I tried to use the -v to verify my current firmware to the 13701 file, that declared it was correct. I was also able to reflash the pi using the 13701 file. But it fails 100% of the time attempting to open the 137a8 file.

Not sure what is going on, any ideas?

Here is my board info

Code: Select all

[email protected]:~/Downloads $ cat /etc/debian_version
10.1
[email protected]:~/Downloads $ cat /proc/device-tree/model
Raspberry Pi 4 Model B Rev 1.1

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:15 pm
by jamesh
Are you sure that file is in the right place with the right filename?

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:01 pm
by bensimmo
Is this going to have automated updates like the boot eeprom?

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:35 am
by atse
Looks like the filename was updated to vl805_fw_0137ab.bin

Code: Select all

pi % ~ md5sum vl805_update_0137a8.zip
431938eb649fde38ee00c3ec87912344  vl805_update_0137a8.zip

pi % ~ unzip -l vl805_update_0137a8.zip
Archive:  vl805_update_0137a8.zip
  Length      Date    Time    Name
---------  ---------- -----   ----
   423012  2019-09-12 12:40   vl805
    96984  2019-05-03 10:09   vl805_fw_013701.bin
    98712  2019-09-05 11:38   vl805_fw_0137ab.bin
---------                     -------
   618708                     3 files
   
RFBomb wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:43 pm
Hello, I am unable to flash this firmware onto my pi 4!
Following the steps above, I get a message showing this:

Code: Select all

[email protected]:~/Downloads $ sudo ./vl805 -w vl805_fw_0137a8.bin
VL805 FW version: 00013701
* failed to open 'vl805_fw_0137a8.bin'
When I tried to use the -v to verify my current firmware to the 13701 file, that declared it was correct. I was also able to reflash the pi using the 13701 file. But it fails 100% of the time attempting to open the 137a8 file.

Not sure what is going on, any ideas?

Here is my board info

Code: Select all

[email protected]:~/Downloads $ cat /etc/debian_version
10.1
[email protected]:~/Downloads $ cat /proc/device-tree/model
Raspberry Pi 4 Model B Rev 1.1

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:26 pm
by bleep42
jamesh wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:37 am
Being inaccurate is ok (just) , blatant lying is unacceptable.

You clearly know very little about the Pi.

1. Not been around for 8 years.
2. Always had HDMI.
3. Unless you work for either Pi or Broadcom, your suggestions were probably not even noticed. If indeed you actually made them. And I'm pretty sure you don't work for either of those given your subject knowledge level. That said, how interesting would it be to know what you suggested, who you suggested it to, and when.
4. There are other avenues to reduce heat than reducing die size.

So, since it's clear you are now just making stuff up, I thinks it's time for a holiday.

Try referring him to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ7N4rycsy4 the original, Rory Cellan-Jones, 5th May 2011, I remember it well :-)
A bit of nostalgia.......
Regards, Kevin.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:01 am
by czarship
I've tried to update the firmware on my Pi 4 from within Raspbian via PhilE's instructions on Page 4.

However, I continually received the error ""failed to open 'vl805_fw_0137a8.bin'" when running the command "sudo ./vl805 -w vl805_fw_0137a8.bin"

Instead, it accepted the command "sudo ./vl805 -w vl805" and told me to reboot to activate the update.

Afterwards, no matter which OS I boot into, none of my USB devices (simple keyboard & mouse or USB controllers) are registering. All OSes boot but don't recognize any input from USB devices and my keyboard doesn't appear to be receiving power (caps lock key doesn't light up LED on keyboard).

I'm not sure what happened, but is there any way to troubleshoot or revert these recent changes given I can't interact with the OS via USB devices? I can ping the Raspbian OS from my Windows desktop but SSH is disabled so I can't remote in.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:02 am
by alphanumeric
Try the recovery option on this page.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:44 am
by jdb
czarship wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:01 am
I've tried to update the firmware on my Pi 4 from within Raspbian via PhilE's instructions on Page 4.

However, I continually received the error ""failed to open 'vl805_fw_0137a8.bin'" when running the command "sudo ./vl805 -w vl805_fw_0137a8.bin"

Instead, it accepted the command "sudo ./vl805 -w vl805" and told me to reboot to activate the update.

Afterwards, no matter which OS I boot into, none of my USB devices (simple keyboard & mouse or USB controllers) are registering. All OSes boot but don't recognize any input from USB devices and my keyboard doesn't appear to be receiving power (caps lock key doesn't light up LED on keyboard).

I'm not sure what happened, but is there any way to troubleshoot or revert these recent changes given I can't interact with the OS via USB devices? I can ping the Raspbian OS from my Windows desktop but SSH is disabled so I can't remote in.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
You appear to have flashed the flashing utility to the EEPROM. No wonder your USB devices don't work any more.

Take the SD card out, plug it into another computer and create an empty file called "ssh" in the boot partition of the SD card.
Boot the Pi and SSH should now be enabled - Ethernet is independent of USB on the Pi 4.
Follow the steps in the firmware upgrade thread precisely. You will note that the a8 firmware image has been superseded.

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 8&t=250990

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:47 am
by Imperf3kt
Finally got my Pi4b Flirc case.

First impressions... Not as good as people claim it to be. The walls are thin, the top is made of a removable rubberised plastic, the block that touches the SOC actually sits about 1.5mm above it and relies on some thick thermal pad to make contact and the surface isn't even flat. (see photograph below)
The block itself is not solid either, it's a mere cavity... There's less aluminium here than my current Pi3b cooling method - a 25*25mm block of aluminium.

Image
Will wait until I power it on tonight to see what kind of difference it makes.

Overall its a nice case, but I'm not so sure it's worth the premium price tag.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:39 pm
by Gerbertus
Imperf3kt wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:47 am
Will wait until I power it on tonight to see what kind of difference it makes.

Overall its a nice case, but I'm not so sure it's worth the premium price tag.
Unless you're ordering dozens of cases or more in bulk, $15 is only a premium price tag when compared to the official case. And the official case, with zero provision for cooling or ventilation, causes the Pi4 to throttle so badly that it really ought to be recalled. The FLIRC case absolutely does what it is claimed to do, lowering the temperature by 20C or more compared to no case and preventing throttling under real-world workloads, and I imagine you verified that for yourself when you 'saw what kind of difference it makes.'
Imperf3kt wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:47 am
The walls are thin, the top is made of a removable rubberised plastic, the block that touches the SOC actually sits about 1.5mm above it and relies on some thick thermal pad to make contact and the surface isn't even flat. The block itself is not solid either, it's a mere cavity... There's less aluminium here than my current Pi3b cooling method - a 25*25mm block of aluminium.
The interface between the processor and the case doesn't have to achieve the same low thermal resistance (which is measured in degrees C per watt) as a 100W CPU's cooling system does, because the Pi4's CPU uses just ~6W max. Rather, the difficulty is making sure that heat is well dissipated from the heatsink to the surrounding environment. So a mirror finish and a very thin layer of thermal paste, which you expect for a 100W CPU's heatsink, simply aren't relevant here.

Having some kind of gap and thermal pad between the case and the CPU ensures they are electrically isolated. Having this thick a gap ensures that the case doesn't have to be thrown out, redesigned, and retooled if a revised Pi is released with a slightly taller SoC - as happened with the 3B/3B+; they were able to continue using the same case for the 3B+ with a thinner thermal pad. Heat is well enough conducted through the thermal pad. And the thermal pad, compressed in place, conforms to the shape around that circular indent just fine.

More aluminum does not equal better.

Overall, though I can imagine some minor improvements, I'm rather happy with mine, and I wish the RPi Foundation had worked with Mr. Kotzin to make something like this for the official case.

BTW, because the FLIRC case doesn't actively conduct away the heat from the USB chip, the recent firmware update for that chip gives a large benefit for idle temperatures - as much as 8C.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:59 pm
by Imperf3kt
I'm still using the original Buster release, I haven't updated at all.

Anyway, after testing the Flirc case, I'm happy with its performance, it dropped temperatures by 15°C when running YouTube for a while, my primary purpose for this Pi4.

I mentioned premium price because it isn't sold for $15 in my country, it is $33.50 plus $7.50 postage

This will do nicely until a decent case comes out!

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:16 am
by genodesiful
I bought a Raspberry Pi 4B 4GB today, and with just an aluminium heatsink, the graphics chip and CPU got hot to the touch very quickly, and measured between 60/70C. I'm running the latest "Buster" Raspian release.

Since there aren't any cases I want to buy at the moment, and I wanted to use it immediately, I came up with this makeshift solution, just so I could play with it. It's plugged into a 1080p monitor, running at 75Hz.

Image

Image

The fan is 50mm, so it moves lots of air almost silently, and it's powered by USB. Since it's flexible, I thought about powering it directly from a Pi USB port, but not wanting to damage or occupy a USB port, I chose to use a USB cable extender and a USB phone charger, with the pictured fan plugged in and blowing directly on top, about 5cm from the board.

These are my temps:

Idle:
Graphics chip: 33.0C
CPU: 33.1C

5 minutes in to a 1080p/60 youtube video on Chromium:
Graphics chip: 40.0C
CPU 40.8C

Pretty good, I thought!

Now I can play with it without worrying about throttling or burning to out! :D .

The fan cost less than £5 online and is extremely quiet (waaaaaay quieter than the small 5v GPIO fans!) and it has zero impact on the Pi because it is completely isolated from the Pi's hardware. There are holes in the box to allow cables in and to increase airflow. I might fashion it into something more permanent and appealing, maybe 3D printed incorporating the USB cable and fan into the case, but I think they're pretty good results from stuff I just had lying about.

Re: This will do nicely until a decent case comes out!

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:44 am
by trejan
genodesiful wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:16 am
Graphics chip: 33.0C
CPU: 33.1C
You only need to show 1 value. The GPU and CPU is the same chip with the metal heatspreader. The value from /sys/devices/virtual/thermal/thermal_zone0/temp and vcgencmd measure_temp is from the same temperature sensor so there is no way to determine GPU or CPU. There is a difference in the implementation for how the value from the internal sensor is converted to a temperature reading which is why they slightly differ.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:21 am
by LTolledo
@genodesiful
Nice DIY setup you have!
truly showcasing ".....if there's a will.... there's a way...." :D

and good luck/have fun on your hunt for the "appealing" cooling solution for your setup.... ;)

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:57 am
by bensimmo
Angle your fan so it blows over the Pi, not directly down on it. To be honest you can power that USB one from the Pi itself.
That way you should get a better flow.

And update Raspbian and install the boot eeprom updates (if it doesn't do it automatically).
You may need
sudo apt install rpi-eeprom
They've not been hard at work fixing things for nothing.


(No so sure about the VLI ones until they make them install in the same way the eeprom does.)
I'd only really trust something they are happy to properly push out.
(Unless you don't mind giving it a go, for me it just worked as expected as I don't mind 'just give it a go').

Re: This will do nicely until a decent case comes out!

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:59 am
by PeterO
genodesiful wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:16 am
I came up with this makeshift solution, just so I could play with it.
You **might** get lower temperature without the heatsink on the SoC. The issue is that the heatsink is stops the cooler air reaching the heat spreader on the SoC and depending on the quality of the thermal pad some people have found it better to remove the heatsink.

PeterO

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:27 am
by genodesiful
@bensimmo
And update Raspbian and install the boot eeprom updates (if it doesn't do it automatically).
What does the "eeprom" do? I did update/upgrade, rpi-update (upgrade? You know what I mean, firmware!), but I haven't heard of that one.... Also, what would the advantage be of angling the fan? I'll give it a try and see if I get better cooling. One of the long ends of the box is almost completely cut away, and there's a slit on the cables side, as well as a small window on the SD card end, so the air goes in the top and out of the ends. You can see the alterations below, I've (somewhat) sealed the fan to stop blowback and to push the air out of the ends of the box, which is the path of least resistance. I've stressed it several ways now with various Python codes, and it hasn't risen much above 50C, which is pretty awesome, esp. considering the only reason I hesitated buying a 4B was the talk of heat and throttling problems! :D

I've thought about using the onboard USB for the fan, it would be good if the fan turned on and off with the board, but the stem is not that flexible, and I don't think I would get it quite as we'll lined up, and don't want to damage the port whilst trying to position it.

I'm going to spend the day designing a 3d printed case, and might order a standard 5cm USB fan in a square caddy with corner screws to make incorporating the fan into the case easier. I'll share the Gcode if I make something good!

For people who haven't read my previous post, this is literally just the box I bought the RPi in yesterday and a way for me to protect it and keep it cool while I look for or 3D print a real case! :lol:

Image

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:08 pm
by jamesh

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:19 pm
by alphanumeric
jamesh wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:08 pm
Boot eeprom information

https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... teeprom.md
Thank you very much for that info. Very very useful IMHO. :D

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:25 am
by neilshep50
Dainis wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:16 pm
Tested 4 Raspberry Pi 4 cooling options
1) Bare board, without any cooling
2) Heatsink 40x40x10
3) Fan version of Armor Aluminum Case for RPi 4, without fan
4) Fan version of Armor Aluminum Case for RPi 4
Room temperature about 22°C, stress test 600s

new4.jpg
Replace the sticky pads on the Armor fan case with 0.5mm copper shim and proper thermal paste and you can knock another 10 degrees off your temperatures.