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RPIgoodSBC
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:37 am

After a lot of testing noctua fans 5V PWM controlled by Noctua control fan adapter on rpi4 I can say that the only one that is silent on any circunstance running at 40% rpm is the noctua 8x8cm 5V PWM fan.
Noctua 8x8cm 5V PWM fan do some usable airflow and remains silent on a quiet room at night.The problem is the big size fan and we loose the small form factor of the pi.
The noctua 4x4 cm fans 5V PWM at very less rpm and no noise are useless, very poor airflow, and when become ok are not silent on quiet room at night, and noctua fans are by far the most silents fans.I have tested other brands and I can confirm noctua are the most silent.

Rpi4 is at idle about +5C than rpi3B+ and at full load at least about +10C than rpi3B+.

Rpi4 is by far the best rpi released I am very happy with the work but is very hot compared with previous rpi.
In my opinion is needed that the raspberry pi fundation do a well ventilated official case like the good products PSU that guarantees good performance on any circunstance.
This is possible using aluminum case or plastic hole case and good and big heatsink with proper thermal pad.

Siever
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:42 am

Hi all,

Did last big update do something with USB controller firmware?

My out of the box RP4 was idling at ~65C and after applying beta update (vl805_fw_0137a8.bin) it dropped to ~60C at idle and stayed there.
I've updated Pi with sudo apt-get dist-upgrade and now temps are back at ~65C.. When checking version with ./vl805 it shows new firmware (VL805 FW version: 000137a8).
I have two USB3 HDD cases connected. If it shouldn't happen I might try old backup from before update and see if it's something on my end.

jahboater
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:16 pm

RPIgoodSBC wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:37 am
Noctua 8x8cm 5V PWM fan do some usable airflow
The trouble with the larger fans on something as small as the Pi SoC is the airflow from the centre of the fan is much reduced.

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RPIgoodSBC
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:38 pm

jahboater wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:16 pm
RPIgoodSBC wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:37 am
Noctua 8x8cm 5V PWM fan do some usable airflow
The trouble with the larger fans on something as small as the Pi SoC is the airflow from the centre of the fan is much reduced.
The airflow on noctua 8x8cm is x5 and the size blown all the pi board.Is more big than the pi, of course.

NF-A8 5V PWM ...Airflow 55,5 m³/h
NF-A4x20 5V PWM .Airflow 9,4 m³/h
NF-A4x10 5V PWM .Airflow 8,9 m³/h

NF-A8 5V PWM at 40% on a quiet room at night is silent and do some usable airflow but the 4x4cm are not silent and usable or them are silent and very poor performance.
If the goal is silent running big fan is better.
Last edited by RPIgoodSBC on Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RPIgoodSBC
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:47 pm

Now I am running more than 30 minutes...

Code: Select all

cpuburn-a7
on rpi4B with Noctua 8x8cm 5V PWM at about 40% rpm and the max temp is 64C with heatsink 1.5x1,5x1,5cm on cpu and 1x1x1cm on ram chip and 1x1x0,5cm on usb-hub chip with 3M-8810 thermal pads.

At night on quiet room Noctua 8x8cm 5V PWM is silent but the case is big and I like much more no fan case and only heatsink and the pi the more tiny as possible.

jahboater
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:01 pm

RPIgoodSBC wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:47 pm

Code: Select all

cpuburn-a7
Why this A7 version?
The CPU's are Cortex-A72 on the Pi4 and on the Pi3 they are Cortex-A53
Both are compatible of course because they may run in big.little configurations.

Code: Select all

wget https://raw.githubusercontent.com/ssvb/cpuburn-arm/master/cpuburn-a53.S
gcc -o cpuburn-a53 cpuburn-a53.S
./cpuburn-a53

jahboater
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:03 pm

RPIgoodSBC wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:38 pm
The airflow on noctua 8x8cm is x5 and the size blown all the pi board.Is more big than the pi, of course.
Its not the total airflow I was referring to.
If you look at the fan, there is a large circular lump in the middle? Which is the motor of course.
Clearly no airflow can be produced by that part. Its only produced by the fan blades at the edge.

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RPIgoodSBC
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:11 pm

jahboater wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:01 pm
RPIgoodSBC wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:47 pm

Code: Select all

cpuburn-a7
Why this A7 version?
The CPU's are Cortex-A72 on the Pi4 and on the Pi3 they are Cortex-A53
Both are compatible of course because they may run in big.little configurations.

Code: Select all

wget https://raw.githubusercontent.com/ssvb/cpuburn-arm/master/cpuburn-a53.S
gcc -o cpuburn-a53 cpuburn-a53.S
./cpuburn-a53
I suppose that cpuburn-a7 is for Cortex-A72.

https://github.com/ssvb/cpuburn-arm

Anyway I don't see any significative difference on

Code: Select all

cpuburn-a7
or

Code: Select all

stress -c 4
or

Code: Select all

watch openssl speed -multi 4 rsa2048
The final results on the max temp are the same.
Last edited by RPIgoodSBC on Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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RPIgoodSBC
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:13 pm

jahboater wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:03 pm
RPIgoodSBC wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:38 pm
The airflow on noctua 8x8cm is x5 and the size blown all the pi board.Is more big than the pi, of course.
Its not the total airflow I was referring to.
If you look at the fan, there is a large circular lump in the middle? Which is the motor of course.
Clearly no airflow can be produced by that part. Its only produced by the fan blades at the edge.
Yes but that counts is final results and this tell us that big fan can do more airflow at minor rpm and for this is more silent and more cool temps.
The large circular lump in the middle is not totally above the cpu.Part of the cpu is placed below fan blades.

jamesh
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:19 pm

It only take a small amount of flow to drop temperatures, the fan shim or for total silence, the Flirc case are both excellent choices.
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jahboater
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:29 pm

RPIgoodSBC wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:11 pm
I suppose that cpuburn-a7 is for Cortex-A72.
No, I think it is for the old Cortex-A7 that the first version of the Pi2 used.

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RPIgoodSBC
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:50 pm

jahboater wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:29 pm
RPIgoodSBC wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:11 pm
I suppose that cpuburn-a7 is for Cortex-A72.
No, I think it is for the old Cortex-A7 that the first version of the Pi2 used.
Ah.Ok.
I will use cpuburn-a53.

error401
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:00 pm

Hi everybody,

I red from the temperature issues _after_ I ordered my Pi 4.

Today everything arrived and I set up the Pi in an original case with libreelec.
I installed the firmware upgrade which is mentioned in this thread.

Still the temperature is at 171°F / 77°C while watching a video in Kodi.

Is this considered too much? Will this damage the hardware?
Is there another update coming to decrease the temperature?

Is there anything else I can do to decrease the temperature, beside buying a fan? I already invested 85 EUR in everything and it doesn't seem right to me to spend even more money because something I just bought doesnt work properly (and is even advertised with "doesnt need fan").

Thanks!

jamesh
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:12 pm

That temperature is fine - its only starts to throttle at 85
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error401
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:30 pm

jamesh wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:12 pm
That temperature is fine - its only starts to throttle at 85
Perfect, thanks a lot for the fast answer.

dom
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:36 pm

error401 wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:00 pm
Is this considered too much? Will this damage the hardware?
No of course not. It's a perfectly normal temperature for a Pi4.
Note that Intel chips in laptops often run at up to 100'C when stressed in normal operation.

When disabling the normal throttling I've had a Pi4 (and a Pi3+) running above 100'C for sustained periods.
Nothing bad happened.

There is a theoretical risk of reduction of chip lifespan when running at extreme temperatures (I'm talking 100'C rather than 77'C)
but we're still probably talking about decades of lifespan.

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RPIgoodSBC
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:50 pm

Now I am running more than 30 minutes...
Code: Select all

Code: Select all

cpuburn-a53
on rpi4B with Noctua 8x8cm 5V PWM at about 40% rpm and the max temp is 67C with heatsink 1.5x1,5x1,5cm on cpu and 1x1x1cm on ram chip and 1x1x0,5cm on usb-hub chip with 3M-8810 thermal pads.

At night on quiet room Noctua 8x8cm 5V PWM is silent but the case is big and I like much more no fan case and only heatsink and the pi the more tiny as possible.

To me this is a very good result to a case that is 6,5cm tall because now I am using little heatsinks.
The case is like this...

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/down ... p?id=30818

I know that cpuburn is not an usual case to rpi but I like very much to put this little beast at the limit. :lol:

Flirc case is very nice but I don't like the plastic base and the wifi is very enclosed in aluminum case and the leds was reported green led is no very visible on the case and the gap is big and no good thermal tape.
All in aluminum and a band plastic from wifi line pcb to leds is much better in my opinion.

Fan-shim looks cool but I have doubt is more silent than noctua fan 4x4cm and for me is very important no noise at all on a silent room at night.

Bakul Shah
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:39 am

dom wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:36 pm
When disabling the normal throttling I've had a Pi4 (and a Pi3+) running above 100'C for sustained periods.
Nothing bad happened.

There is a theoretical risk of reduction of chip lifespan when running at extreme temperatures (I'm talking 100'C rather than 77'C)
but we're still probably talking about decades of lifespan.
Is there a way to disable throttling? I don't care if it reduces the warranty lifespan to zero!

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Imperf3kt
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:42 am

Bakul Shah wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:39 am
dom wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:36 pm
When disabling the normal throttling I've had a Pi4 (and a Pi3+) running above 100'C for sustained periods.
Nothing bad happened.

There is a theoretical risk of reduction of chip lifespan when running at extreme temperatures (I'm talking 100'C rather than 77'C)
but we're still probably talking about decades of lifespan.
Is there a way to disable throttling? I don't care if it reduces the warranty lifespan to zero!
That's a bad idea. The throttling is designed to stop the device killing itself within minutes. Running slightly above the thermal cut off isn't too worrying, but if you keep pushing it hard, it'll continue to climb and that's when it becomes a problem that can destroy your Pi in seconds.
55:55:44:44:4C
52:4C:52:42:41

mjflory
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:09 pm

Some additional heatsink + fan test results on a 4GB Pi 4:

I detached the fan-heatsink combination from an old graphics card, then unscrewed the fan from the heatsink, which was too large for the Pi. The fan itself has no housing but its blades span a width of about 48mm, so I suppose it would be a 50mm fan if it were in one. I drilled holes in the lid with a 1/16" (about 1.5mm) Dremel drill bit and attached the fan to the underside of the lid. If I'd had my wits about me I would have attached the fan after drilling ventilation holes in the lid, but since I mounted the fan first I was able to ensure that the twelve vent holes, which I drilled with a 1/8" (about 3mm) bit, were within the radius of the fan blades but weren't blocked by the center of the fan or the wires. The fan itself was designed for 12 volts, but the 5 volts from the Pi's pins 4 and 6 spin it at a reduced and quieter speed. Fortunately the fan itself had been electrically connected to the graphics board with a two-hole socket that fit the two adjacent pins on the Pi perfectly.

I'd already attached an Adafruit 15mm-cube heatsink to the CPU with its thermal adhesive pad. The heatsink felt warm to the touch in operation, so the adhesive pad seemed to be conducting well. With the case closed and the fan running, the idling CPU settled at about 41-42C. (The CPU and GPU temperature readings varied almost completely in concert and the readings hovered a little up and down.) I then ran the cpuburn stress test for ten minutes. All four CPU cores ran at a steady 100%. The temperature rose to about 68-69C, never reaching 70C, then remained constant. There was no throttling, so I think I'm set for whatever I run on it.

I gather pictures can only be linked to an outside host on the forums and I don't have such a host for my pictures, but I hope my description gives enough detail for anyone who'd like to try it to be able to duplicate the setup. The old graphics card I sacrificed was an ATI Radeon HD 3650, but I suspect any old fan that fits in the case would do. The old card's fan was just thin enough to clear the 15mm tall heatsink, but a lower heatsink might work just as well with a taller fan.

slinxy
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:39 pm

Just read most of this thread as i've just setup and rebuilt my pi setup on a new pi4 4gb with the offical case, thank god it was a rainny weekend else it would have been a while till I would have done this.

My colleague told me on Friday that he brought a fan for his pi4, mine is running at 70 degrees idle, but I have just moved it from the back of the router next to the nas drive to it's own little space to see how much that helps.

TBH honest I'm very happy with, yeah I understand that it will speed throttle once it reaches 80 degress, but I can remember back in the days the first slot Intels/AMDs with the massive heatsinks and fans. I really want a zero noise device; had entertainment PCs, home servers and even some laptops that sat in the living room and made stupid amount of noise. For what I'm using it for it's hardly ever going to be on load and when it does it be for a short period; not worth the cost of the noise of a fan imho. If I need processing power I would just reach for one of my laptops, sit at my desktop or remote into the computers/servers at work. Gone are my days of overclocking, Vapour Chill Cases and then spending £££ on noise cancellation.. lol

I may get another one as a project board, thou I do have two pi3s and pi2...... do we know if the pimorio fan shrim fits inside the offical case? as i might place my current one in the FLIRC case and will have a spare offical case.

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PiModules
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:34 pm

Hi,
PicoolFAN4 fits in all cases as also to the official one - see photos. Tomorrow or on Tuesday we will release measures of temperature monitoring log with FAN running, with different speed as also with automatic dynamic speed adjustment (depending to temperature level - in order to decrease possible noises)
Kind Regards
PiMaster
www.pimodules.com

webbsmurfen
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Location: Sweden

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:37 am

galicin wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:49 am
I did pre-order this - https://geekworm.com/collections/new-ar ... tive-shell (will share results once I have it).
Image
... I’m probably going to buy one of those as well, However "Geekworm" seems to be located in China, and ordering anywhere outside EU ( especially USA and China) is a horrible mistake in my contry, where the customs take a "one time fee" + 25% extra in taxes, which makes the total price closer to $35..

Any chance that there is a store in EU that sells this? Ordering from EU means no extra costs

rshev
Posts: 3
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:12 am

webbsmurfen wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:37 am
... I’m probably going to buy one of those as well, However "Geekworm" seems to be located in China, and ordering anywhere outside EU ( especially USA and China) is a horrible mistake in my contry, where the customs take a "one time fee" + 25% extra in taxes, which makes the total price closer to $35..

Any chance that there is a store in EU that sells this? Ordering from EU means no extra costs
There are PLENTY of these on ebay, including EU. Hope this helps.

webbsmurfen
Posts: 59
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Location: Sweden

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:02 pm

rshev wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:12 am
webbsmurfen wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:37 am
... I’m probably going to buy one of those as well, However "Geekworm" seems to be located in China, and ordering anywhere outside EU ( especially USA and China) is a horrible mistake in my contry, where the customs take a "one time fee" + 25% extra in taxes, which makes the total price closer to $35..

Any chance that there is a store in EU that sells this? Ordering from EU means no extra costs
There are PLENTY of these on ebay, including EU. Hope this helps.
Yeah i found one based in UK.. and i brought one..
However i found something that might be troublesome.. You guys who orderd this one.. Before turn your Raspberry ON, check the fitting first. This one seems a little to close to the connectors in USB-C and the composite video port. No one wants a schortcut, and a destroyed board

This picture explains it better
Image

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