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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:49 pm
by ndrw
Nope, values in the range of [-16,-1] result in supply voltage of ~1.1V. Positive values (I tried only "1") work as expected. Looks like this config value has changed in RPi4.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:36 am
by Imperf3kt
Did you make sure to update first? They apparently weren't working until just recently.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:45 am
by jimmyken
Tokyo is reaching 31 degrees Celsius because of its renowned Summer today.
I think of any heat sink and forced air cooler for powerful Raspberry Pi 4 8-)

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:53 am
by rpdom
jimmyken wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:45 am
Tokyo is reaching 31 degrees Celsius because of its renowned Summer today.
Much cooler than most of mainland Europe then, where temperatures are expected to peak around 45°C today.

The worst us poor Brits can expect is around 31°C tomorrow.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:57 am
by ndrw
It is the newest version of Raspbian. Installed from image 2 days ago, an upgrade produced no meaningful changes.

I've lowered arm_freq_min and core_freq_min so the idling frequencies are lower (without reducing the supply voltage) - strangely, there is no difference to the temperatures, or a very minor one, the system still idles at 67C after the temperature is settled.

Are there any other components worth disabling? GPU perhaps?

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:44 am
by jamesh
My PI4 in the open air idles at about 65, but that is running 4kp60 which does run hotter.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:17 am
by jimmyken
rpdom wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:53 am
jimmyken wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:45 am
Tokyo is reaching 31 degrees Celsius because of its renowned Summer today.
Much cooler than most of mainland Europe then, where temperatures are expected to peak around 45°C today.

The worst us poor Brits can expect is around 31°C tomorrow.
Heard coming heat wave to Europe. Tokyo will get around 35 ℃ after the ongoing rainy season will end. Many types of aluminium heat sinks are lined up in Akihabara shops and online.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:04 pm
by jcsbanks
34C idle after idling overnight with heatsink/undervolted fan in Pibow case. Ambient 20C. With heatsink but fan turned off after sustained full load I got it to actually start throttling, turn on fan and within a minute whilst still at full load the temperature had dropped 20C. I never realised how well fans work in combination with a heatsink.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:26 pm
by itsmedoofer
I saw a 20C drop, just with the FanShim fitted, no heatsink. The USB ports were noticeably cooler as well after 10 mins of the fan running.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:13 pm
by cros13
Added a PoE hat. Getting lower idle temps but I haven't noticed the fan run.
47.7 °C at 25.1°C ambient

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:31 am
by bmel
I first tried fixing the problem of the high temperature by adding cooling blocks. However, the problem is that multiple integrated circuits get hot. I have a Thermal Imaging Camera and I found values of 65'C and higher on multiple Integrated circuits even with open housing after 30 min of use.

I then decided to install a small computer fan I still had (in my case a Konig CS40MMFAN, size 40x40x10 mm). The fan fits nicely in the RPI housing. A 35 mm hole in the top of the housing allows for good air flow:
RPI4_fan1.jpeg
RPI4_fan1.jpeg (213.87 KiB) Viewed 5145 times
The fan requires 12V for full speed operation, but at a lower voltage the speed is reduced and so is noise (which is nice). At 9.5 Volt my fan is extremely quiet and cooling is still good. These are my results within a 5 minute time window between open case (still better than a closed case) and case closed with fan running:

Code: Select all

[email protected]:/#vcgencmd measure_temp
temp=62.0'C
[email protected]:/# vcgencmd measure_temp
temp=55.0'C
[email protected]:/# vcgencmd measure_temp
temp=48.0'C
The RPI only provides 5V (on pin 4+6 of the GPIO connector), so I used a small DC-DC step up circuit to turn 5V into 9.5V and glued that to the side of the fan. See:
RPI4_fan2.jpeg
RPI4_fan2.jpeg (246.98 KiB) Viewed 5145 times
The DC-DC step up circuit I used had a fixed voltage output and I modified one of the resistors to change the output to the right voltage ( I did already had this step up waiting to be used in a project). It would be better to order a step up circuit with adjustable output voltage (price around $1,50 at Aliexpress), but for now this is good enough.The yellow wire of the fan is not connected, but it could be used to connect to one of the GPIO pins to tell the CPU how fast the fan is running. This would however require some additional resister circuit as the tach signal from the fan is 12V and the GPIO pins require the voltage to be below 3.3V... A project for another day.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:50 am
by gavirv
I'm getting 60 degree temperatures on idle too. This is a clean bluster install with HDMI boost disabled:

Code: Select all

$ sudo vcgencmd measure_volts
volt=0.8701V
$ sudo vcgencmd measure_temp
temp=60.0'C
$ cat /boot/config.txt | grep "config_hdmi_boost"
#config_hdmi_boost=4
I'm using the Coupé case with passive heat sink and have the WD PiDrive connected to the USB.

Somewhat disappointing, guess I'm going to have to buy a cooling fan.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:13 pm
by Gavinmc42
55C on idle goes to 64 when watching Pi4 videos on youtube,
But I have a 20 x 20 x 5mm heatsink on it, a puff of air on it brings it down to 55 again.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:15 pm
by Aardappeltaart
Or you need new firmware for the USB Controller.
“some thermal optimizations that are not installed by default on early production units.”

My RPI4 is also running 60° idle.

And lspci is showing

Code: Select all

sudo lspci -vvv | grep ASPM

LnkCtl: ASPM Disabled; RCB 64 bytes Disabled- CommClk-
As it seems ASPM (Active-State Power Management) is not enabled on older batches.

According to this post, new firmware will lower temperature a few degrees.
https://www.cnx-software.com/2019/06/29 ... mperature/

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:35 pm
by lb
I'd like to test this firmware update. Is it available somewhere publicly?

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:01 pm
by Montala
lb wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:35 pm
I'd like to test this firmware update. Is it available somewhere publicly?
Likewise... presumably there will be some way to update an existing installation?

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:47 pm
by lb
I'd also be fine to be a guinea pig if Raspberry Pi developers want some people to test this advance. I can provide feedback and data.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:53 pm
by Aardappeltaart
AFAIK the firmware is not available yet.

I do wonder which models are considered `early production units` and how they are marked.

Mine has a 2018 copyright. :)

Do you all have `ASPM disabled` in lspci?

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:13 pm
by Linley
Another datapoint:

My RPi4 with heatsink in official RPi4 case using RPi4 power plug runs at 70°C idle.
It runs 60°C idle without case. (Ambient temperature 25°C.)

https://pi-plates.com/using-a-thermopla ... -the-rpi4/
His runs 55°C idle without case and without heatsink. (Ambient temperature 27°C.)

The RPi3 case you could remove the top and the two side panels. In total there were 5 plastic parts.
The RPi4 case consists only of 2 plastic parts. It is a fully closed system. So given the case ventilation wasn't part of its design.

I've been eyeing for another SBC since I got my RPi3. When I heard RPi4 was released I immediately jumped in. I should have waited for the reviews and based my buying decision on that. The RPi4 case is worthless for me since I need a case that supports active cooling in order to run it without being throttled.
Also based on what I've read I'm not sure what's the supposed idle temperature is. There are people who have a much, much lower idle temperature.

Code: Select all

[email protected]:/boot $ vcgencmd measure_temp
temp=70.0'C
[email protected]:/boot $ vcgencmd measure_volts
volt=0.8419V

Code: Select all

# For more options and information see
# http://rpf.io/configtxt
# Some settings may impact device functionality. See link above for details

# uncomment if you get no picture on HDMI for a default "safe" mode
#hdmi_safe=1

# uncomment this if your display has a black border of unused pixels visible
# and your display can output without overscan
#disable_overscan=1

# uncomment the following to adjust overscan. Use positive numbers if console
# goes off screen, and negative if there is too much border
#overscan_left=16
#overscan_right=16
#overscan_top=16
#overscan_bottom=16

# uncomment to force a console size. By default it will be display's size minus
# overscan.
#framebuffer_width=1280
#framebuffer_height=720

# uncomment if hdmi display is not detected and composite is being output
#hdmi_force_hotplug=1

# uncomment to force a specific HDMI mode (this will force VGA)
#hdmi_group=1
#hdmi_mode=1

# uncomment to force a HDMI mode rather than DVI. This can make audio work in
# DMT (computer monitor) modes
#hdmi_drive=2

# uncomment to increase signal to HDMI, if you have interference, blanking, or
# no display
#config_hdmi_boost=4

# uncomment for composite PAL
#sdtv_mode=2

#uncomment to overclock the arm. 700 MHz is the default.
#arm_freq=800

# Uncomment some or all of these to enable the optional hardware interfaces
#dtparam=i2c_arm=on
#dtparam=i2s=on
dtparam=spi=off

# Uncomment this to enable the lirc-rpi module
#dtoverlay=lirc-rpi

# Additional overlays and parameters are documented /boot/overlays/README

# Enable audio (loads snd_bcm2835)
dtparam=audio=on

[pi4]
# Enable DRM VC4 V3D driver on top of the dispmanx display stack
dtoverlay=vc4-fkms-v3d
max_framebuffers=2

[all]
#dtoverlay=vc4-fkms-v3d
start_x=0
enable_uart=0
Got Debian Buster Lite running in headless mode.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:08 pm
by Aardappeltaart
I opened a new thread about the different firmware shipped (and related thermal and performance issues).
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 3&t=244092

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:34 pm
by Chimneyfactory
4Gb Pi4 with official PSU and an external (mechanical) USB HDD with Raspbian installed on it (but booting from SD).

After ~15 mins idling in desktop, temperature is drifting between 58 - 60C with an ambient of 24C and no fan

Image
The Pi is installed on an official Raspberry Pi Cooling Trestle

With the fan in the picture running (which doesn't move as much air as it's size suggests) the idle temperature hovers around 41 - 43C, ambient at 24C

Without the external cooling, a single busy web page in Chromium can cause the temperature to rise quickly to 80C and throttling to occur.

(nb the new CPU temperature gauge is pretty good - right click on the task bar, add/remove panel items, and choose CPU temperature monitor. It shows current temp, plots a graph and changes colour to indicate throttling. Greatly improved from the old temperature monitor)

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:25 am
by wren
I removed a small heat sink from an older Pi. Removed the thermal tape (non sticky at that point). Cleaned the heat sink with GooGone. Applied a tiny dab of arctic silver to the SoC. Firmly pressed the heat sink on. My idle temp is now 44-47C down from the high 60's.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:46 am
by jamesh
Aardappeltaart wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:53 pm
AFAIK the firmware is not available yet.

I do wonder which models are considered `early production units` and how they are marked.

Mine has a 2018 copyright. :)

Do you all have `ASPM disabled` in lspci?
All devices off the production line that have gone to customers are the same, and all have had the same firmware installed. There is no such thing as an early production unit that went to customers, they are all the same. Reviewers and beta testers had early production devices, as you might expect. These were updated in the field as necessary.

The firmware update to the USB chip has not been released, it is still under test. It has been used in house, and I think distributed to our external testers mid way through last week. So hopefully released fairly soon. I've not noticed any regressions with it, but only have keyboard and mouse attached.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:27 pm
by ndrw
jamesh,

Thank you for the info. This would be consistent with what I am seeing - lowering idle cpu frequencies has almost no impact on power consumption but changing (increasing) supply voltage increases power consumption dramatically.

I will wait for the updated vli firmware, any eta would be greatly appreciated.

Anu idea why supply voltage cannot be lowered in RPi4?

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:50 pm
by jahboater
ndrw wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:27 pm
Anu idea why supply voltage cannot be lowered in RPi4?
If you mean "over_voltage=-2"
That seems to be working now.