alphanumeric
Posts: 2104
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:17 pm
Location: Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:42 pm

bensimmo wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:28 pm
alphanumeric wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:05 pm
A Raspberry shaped / themed cutout in the lid would have helped, hint hint. ;)
The first thing I did when I got the original official case was drill a grid of ventilation holes. I just taped some graph paper on top and drilled where the lines intersected. Then did the same on the bottom. If you take your time it doesn't look too bad when your done.
with one of them mechanical things that spins a cylinder with sharp bits, from ye olde times ?
or with the more modern method of setting up a laser cutter and enjoying the smell ?

P.S. I don't have a case, what plastic is it ?
I only have the older black grey case.
I have no idea what plastic it is.
I used my dremel tool with a very small drill bit to drill pilot holes. Then a ball mill to make my holes the size I wanted.

Badger101
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:26 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:05 pm

Exaga wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:42 am
jamesh wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:05 am
Your concern trolling has been noted. If the Pi4 does not fit your use case, don't use it.
James,

When I first alerted people about the thermal issues with the Raspberry Pi 4 on 26 June 2019, I was labelled a "Troll" and a "Whinger" by some of them. Et tu Brute?

I regard this reaction and behaviour unbecoming of a professional of your standing. Please change your attitude. These are pertinent questions and were asked sincerely. I'm sorry to have bothered you for your insightful, esteemed, and valued opinion.

It's not my problem if the Rapberry Pi Foundation hasn't been forthcoming with the facts surrounding the RPi4 before it's release, or after. However, I have spent money on it. Therefore I have a legitimate right to comment and/or ask questions about the product I have purchased.

Good luck.

[EDIT] I've strapped a 28mm x 28mm x 20mm heatsink to the SoC and bolted a 30mmx7mm fan on top of it. Runs idle at ~35'C and maxes out all [4x] cores at ~45'C and will not rise above that. I'd say the thermal issue(s) on my Raspberry Pi 4 Model B are pretty much resolved. Thank you for your advice but I won't be taking you up on it. I'm questioning why an organisation as prestigous and prominent as the RPi Foundation could allow a product with very apparent thermal issues to be released to the public. I'm not saying the RPi4 is useless!

Concern trolling... ouch. Touched a nerve I think.

I've been using an old raspberry pi board on a project for a long time now, but needed more power for updates to the project.

Glad I brought a HardKernel N2 now. More money granted, but works with no problems.

Gomoto
Posts: 125
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:21 am

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:11 pm

A slight downclock to 1.4 Ghz lowers the max temps substantially (about 8 degrees less on my box) with no noticable effect on my desktop experience. (I like to play music on youtube and browse at the same time in seperate windows. That way I dont run into throtteling or temp warnings.

thatchunkylad198966
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:21 am
Location: UK, Birmingham

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:19 pm

Gomoto wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:11 pm
A slight downclock to 1.4 Ghz lowers the max temps substantially (about 8 degrees less on my box) with no noticable effect on my desktop experience. (I like to play music on youtube and browse at the same time in seperate windows. That way I dont run into throtteling or temp warnings.
How do I do that? I'm interested. :mrgreen:
It's still the same for me: temp=63.0'C I put it to 1300:
arm_freq=1300
One man's trash is another man's treasure! :) Pi's I have; Pi Zero, Pi Zero W, Pi 2 x2, Pi 3 x2, Pi 4 4GB x2.

jahboater
Posts: 4762
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:38 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:33 pm

Badger101 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:05 pm
Glad I brought a HardKernel N2 now. More money granted, but works with no problems.
My Pi4 works with no problems.

I have an Odroid-N2 which should be faster for various reasons, but in practice the Pi4 is faster. Compiling a large program on the Pi4 is quicker than on the N2 for example. Same compiler, same program.
Logging in over ssh or copying files around is much faster on the Pi4.

I use the N2 for writing Aarch 64 assembler which is much nicer than the legacy 32-bit ARM ISA on the Pi.

jahboater
Posts: 4762
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:38 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:34 pm

Gomoto wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:11 pm
A slight downclock to 1.4 Ghz lowers the max temps substantially (about 8 degrees less on my box) with no noticable effect on my desktop experience. (I like to play music on youtube and browse at the same time in seperate windows. That way I dont run into throtteling or temp warnings.
My Pi4 runs happily at 1.6 GHz and 600Mhz core. No throttling, no problems.

phil995511
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed May 08, 2019 2:02 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:15 pm

jahboater wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:43 am

I use this in /boot/config.txt
Not sure if its still correct for the Pi4?

dtoverlay=pi3-disable-bt
dtoverlay=pi3-disable-wifi

If running headless, turn off HDMI by adding this to /etc/rc.local (saves a few ma).

/usr/bin/tvservice -o

Finally, add this to /etc/crontab to turn off the red power led.

@reboot root echo 0 > /sys/class/leds/led1/brightness

As for heat, mine idles at 44-45C and reaches 76-77C after an hour running cpuburn (a nasty stress test using NEON).
Small stick-on heat sink, no case.
Thank you for your advice.

After doing tests, it seems that these functions blacklist Wifi / Bluetooth, but that this material remains powered by electric current.

My Raspberry PI is always hot ... +/- 73 ° C during the day and 68/70° C the night in IDLE mode with the last frimware :

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 5#p1490467

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 8&t=244421

In my apartment currently the temperature is at least 30 ° C the day and +/- 25 ° C the night.

If I play a Youtube video @ 1080p, my Raspberry Pi 4 is at 84/85 °C, CPU @ +/- 75% ;(

I hope it will be better when we have an OS and 64-bit applications available (theoretical performance gain of 30 to 70%).

Finally I placed an order for Flirc Raspberry Pi 4 Case => https://flirc.tv/more/raspberry-pi-4-case

Best regards.

mjanssen
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:37 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:14 pm

PhilE wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:09 am
By the way, if you run "sudo ./vl805" with no parameters it displays the version of the currently running firmware. Note that this may differ from what's in the EEPROM if you've just reprogrammed it but not rebooted.
Hi When I run "sudo ./vl805", the message "* no VL805 found". How is that possible?

The board is definitely a genuine Raspberry Pi 4B.

jahboater
Posts: 4762
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:38 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:16 pm

mjanssen wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:14 pm
PhilE wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:09 am
By the way, if you run "sudo ./vl805" with no parameters it displays the version of the currently running firmware. Note that this may differ from what's in the EEPROM if you've just reprogrammed it but not rebooted.
Hi When I run "sudo ./vl805", the message "* no VL805 found". How is that possible?

The board is definitely a genuine Raspberry Pi 4B.
Works for me. Did you follow the instructions to the letter?

Code: Select all

[email protected]:~ $ sudo ./vl805 
VL805 FW version: 000137a8
[email protected]:~ $ 

mjanssen
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:37 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:41 pm

jahboater wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:16 pm
mjanssen wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:14 pm
PhilE wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:09 am
By the way, if you run "sudo ./vl805" with no parameters it displays the version of the currently running firmware. Note that this may differ from what's in the EEPROM if you've just reprogrammed it but not rebooted.
Hi When I run "sudo ./vl805", the message "* no VL805 found". How is that possible?

The board is definitely a genuine Raspberry Pi 4B.
Works for me. Did you follow the instructions to the letter?

Code: Select all

[email protected]:~ $ sudo ./vl805 
VL805 FW version: 000137a8
[email protected]:~ $ 
Yes, I did. But i think the board is defective. I have another one and on that one it works fine. On the defective board I also had the issue that it wouldn't power up any USB device.

thatchunkylad198966
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:21 am
Location: UK, Birmingham

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:56 pm

thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:19 pm
Gomoto wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:11 pm
A slight downclock to 1.4 Ghz lowers the max temps substantially (about 8 degrees less on my box) with no noticable effect on my desktop experience. (I like to play music on youtube and browse at the same time in seperate windows. That way I dont run into throtteling or temp warnings.
How do I do that? I'm interested. :mrgreen:
It's still the same for me: temp=63.0'C I put it to 1300:
arm_freq=1300

Hmmmm. :oops:
One man's trash is another man's treasure! :) Pi's I have; Pi Zero, Pi Zero W, Pi 2 x2, Pi 3 x2, Pi 4 4GB x2.

Gomoto
Posts: 125
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:21 am

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:40 pm

sorry, that is what works for me. I use my pi without a case and i added a old heatsink as well

Code: Select all

arm_freq=1400
like I said the downclock to 1400 lowered the temps about additional 8 degrees here

75'C heavy video streaming and browsing (83 without the downclock).
62'C idle desktop

t1ggermoth
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:04 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:01 pm

The Raspberry Pi 4 is superb. I've been using it for the last two days as my sole desktop and the performance is great.

I've been keeping a little console window open with the command below running:

Code: Select all

watch /opt/vc/bin/vcgencmd measure_temp
This shows me the temperature updated every two seconds (that's what the 'watch' command does).

So I stuck on (using a self-adhesive thermal tape) a simple heatsink that is made for a to220 transistor. It's just one that I had in my junkbox - it's a small little thing with five short prongs on each side. The PI is uncased.

So ring now, for example it's running at 55'C as I'm typing this.

(Five minutes later)

After watching a YouTube video, it's running at 65'C maximum.

I'm happy with that. If I was so motivated I could stick on a slightly bigger heatsink, but there is really no need.

What's useful to note is that the Raspberry Pi is not designed for high performance applications as such (even though it probably can now). It's designed, from what I understand, as a board that is accessible (cheap) for people to learn programming on, cheap, and to interface with the outside world using the GPIO pins. For that sort of application, it's going to be near idle temperature for much of its time with occasional bursts.

So, if you're bothered about temperature, just stick on a really cheap TO220 heatsink.
Last edited by t1ggermoth on Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jahboater
Posts: 4762
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:38 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:20 pm

Gomoto wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:40 pm
sorry, that is what works for me. I use my pi without a case and i added a old heatsink as well

Code: Select all

arm_freq=1400
My setting is

Code: Select all

arm_freq=1600
arm_freq_min=400
gpu_freq_min=250
core_freq=600
arm_freq_min drops the freq at idle from 640Mhz to 400MHz without making it feel slow.
The 100MHz overclock doesn't seem to make much difference to the temp under load (never over 77C).

blackshard83
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:31 am

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:36 am

phil995511 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:15 pm
I hope it will be better when we have an OS and 64-bit applications available (theoretical performance gain of 30 to 70%).
It is OT, but where you saw such gain of performance going 64-bits?
It's not x86, performance gains are in the order of 5% or less on ARM, but memory usage may increase a lot depending on the use case.

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Gavinmc42
Posts: 3885
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:49 am

[So ring now, for example it's running at 55'C as I'm typing this.

(Five minutes later)

After watching a YouTube video, it's running at 65'C maximum. /quote
My temps are the same with a small heatsink.
Considering this is replacing a Celeron box that did run up to 95C, I'm very happy with this small Pi4.
When I enclose the next 4B4 I will put tiny fan in as well but that will be doing serious work, not simple YT watching :lol:
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:07 pm

blackshard83 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:36 am
phil995511 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:15 pm
I hope it will be better when we have an OS and 64-bit applications available (theoretical performance gain of 30 to 70%).
It is OT, but where you saw such gain of performance going 64-bits?
It's not x86, performance gains are in the order of 5% or less on ARM, but memory usage may increase a lot depending on the use case.
Some benchmarks have seen improvements of 10-15%. I suspect on average it is less than that.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
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phil995511
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed May 08, 2019 2:02 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:27 pm

blackshard83 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:36 am
phil995511 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:15 pm
I hope it will be better when we have an OS and 64-bit applications available (theoretical performance gain of 30 to 70%).
It is OT, but where you saw such gain of performance going 64-bits?
It's not x86, performance gains are in the order of 5% or less on ARM, but memory usage may increase a lot depending on the use case.
Read this :

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... 8664&num=1

https://www.passmark.com/forum/performa ... -maths-pt8

ScienceMark 2.0 - Primordia in version 32 vs 64 bits (The 64-bit version of this scientific application is significantly better than the 32-bit version. However, few people have used their machine to perform this type of calculations.) :

https://pic.clubic.com/v1/images/1183213/raw

https://www.clubic.com/article-264852-1 ... ances.html

I will be very surprised that the gain is only 5% on ARM. On a 4-lane highway you put at most 2 times more cars than on a 2-lane highway, it's applied physics... In computer science there are also other problems of optimization of dependencies, etc, which potentially reduces this benefit.

I dare to hope that Rasbian 10 Buster 64 Bit makes less sweat/heat our poor CPU's on RPI 3+ and 4.

blackshard83
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:31 am

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:14 pm

phil995511 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:27 pm
Read this :

...cut...

I will be very surprised that the gain is only 5% on ARM. On a 4-lane highway you put at most 2 times more cars than on a 2-lane highway, it's applied physics... In computer science there are also other problems of optimization of dependencies, etc, which potentially reduces this benefit.

I dare to hope that Rasbian 10 Buster 64 Bit makes less sweat/heat our poor CPU's on RPI 3+ and 4.
You miss the substance here. x86 and ARM are totally different CPU architectures. Long story short, when AMD designed the amd64 architecture, they could remove a lot of compatibility burden of i386 architecture, made the ISA lighter, and introduce many more general purpose registers. These, and others minor improvements, are the root cause of the performance from i386 to amd64.

ARM is another story: no improvements to ISA, no more general purpose registers, no legacy compatibility to get rid of; instead just enlarging the size of the general purpose registers means no major performance improvements when switching to 64 bits. On the other size, pointer which are 4 bytes on 32 bits, now occupy twice the space in 64 bits (8 bytes), so applications which use lot's of pointers require lot's more memory to do the same work in the same time.

jahboater
Posts: 4762
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:38 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:34 pm

blackshard83 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:14 pm
ARM is another story: no improvements to ISA, no more general purpose registers, no legacy compatibility to get rid of;
What ??? Sorry, that is nonsense.

1) A64 is a completely different ISA to A32. It is greatly improved and streamlined for modern CPU's.
2) The number of registers has doubled.
And the number of floating-point/SIMD registers has doubled too (now 32).
3) Its completely incompatible with the old 32-bit ISA

Take some time to study Aarch64.

martinrowan
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Location: Berkshire, UK
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:37 pm

More case and temperature updates.
I bought another Pi 3 official case, and with the help of a Dremel I "adjusted it" to allow my Pi 4 to fit. Per https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspbe ... w-from-35/
Image

With the original clock speeds, USB Firmware and 4k disabled (HDMI_ENABLE_4K=0) etc. I've left it all day with just the one side panel open where the USB-C and HDMI ports are connected. Nothing running, just idling at the desktop.

It's still running (@ ~75°C) ~48°C above ambient temperature, which is about the same as it was in the Pi 4 when running in the same software/firmware configuration. So the open side and the small slots between the USB and NIC ports, doesn't appear to make a meaningful difference.

I can't decide if this means there is hope yet for the Pi 4 case, or if the Pi 4 power/thermal requirements are going to be such that this version can't run in any enclosure without some active cooling. I guess we need to be patient and wait for some sort of official update from the Pi Team.

For completeness, removing the top white plastic top does make a bit more of a difference, with the temperature dropping to 70°C, 42°C above ambient.

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Montala
Posts: 675
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Location: Herefordshire (U.K.)

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:39 pm

I do have a question related to the Raspberry Pi 4 temperature, but rather than add it to this rather lengthy thread, I have started a new one on here entitled "Thickness of thermal adhesive tape?" where I hope that some of you will be able to best advise me!

Thanks in anticipation!

wesw82
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:38 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:47 pm

PhilE wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:09 am
Hi all,

Following a successful trial with our alpha testers, we are releasing a new firmware build for the USB3 host adapter that should save about 300mW and help the Pi4 to run cooler, which in turn improves performance in compute-intensive tasks.

Download the archive from here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PXwrnh ... sp=sharing
With the zip file on the Pi:

Code: Select all

$ unzip vl805_update_0137a8.zip
$ chmod a+x vl805
$ sudo ./vl805 -w vl805_fw_0137a8.bin
$ sudo reboot
The zip file includes the current shipping firmware (013701) in case you want to revert:

Code: Select all

$ sudo ./vl805 -w vl805_fw_013701.bin
$ sudo reboot
By the way, if you run "sudo ./vl805" with no parameters it displays the version of the currently running firmware. Note that this may differ from what's in the EEPROM if you've just reprogrammed it but not rebooted.
HI all,
FIrstly, let me apologise - I'm a complete Pi novice. I'm experiencing the overheating problem as well, meaning that I can't even watch embedded videos (let alone full screen) online using Chromium, without the thermometer icon flashing up after a few minutes. I've tried to follow the instructions above to install the new firmware build, but when I try to run the command lines detailed above, after having downloaded and unzipped the zip, I get the following message in the terminal:

Code: Select all

[email protected]:~ $ unzip vl805_update_0137a8.zip
unzip:  cannot find or open vl805_update_0137a8.zip, vl805_update_0137a8.zip.zip or vl805_update_0137a8.zip.ZIP.
[email protected]:~ $ 
Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Many thanks in advance!

wrn
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:24 am

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:45 pm

wesw82 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:47 pm
cannot find or open vl805_update_0137a8.zip
It seems you are not unzipping from the same directory as where you downloaded the file.
Can you check where the zip file landed when you downloaded it, and use cd to change your current directory to the correct emplacement before unzipping ?

Other than that, I am following this and it seems that there are still issues with the new firmware. It has been advised ( here : https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 5#p1491908 ) to refrain using the zip file and wait for an update on the official repository, which will be available at some point after testing, using apt.

wesw82
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:38 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:23 pm

wrn wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:45 pm
wesw82 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:47 pm
cannot find or open vl805_update_0137a8.zip
It seems you are not unzipping from the same directory as where you downloaded the file.
Can you check where the zip file landed when you downloaded it, and use cd to change your current directory to the correct emplacement before unzipping ?

Other than that, I am following this and it seems that there are still issues with the new firmware. It has been advised ( here : https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 5#p1491908 ) to refrain using the zip file and wait for an update on the official repository, which will be available at some point after testing, using apt.
Thank you very much for your helpful reply!

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