kfairchild
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:39 am

Bluetooth won't pair with keyboard, crashes

Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:33 pm

RPi 3B+ and 3B
Raspbian Stretch (Linux pi3Bplus 4.14.98-v7+ #1200 SMP Tue Feb 12 20:27:48 GMT 2019 armv7l GNU/Linux)
Bluez 5.43
Microsoft Universal Foldable Keyboard

I had this keyboard paired with the 3B+ before, but then had to swap the 3B+ with the 3B in a project, and now the keyboard won't connect with either. Bluetooth connection between my RPi(s) and Windows laptop or Android phone works perfectly. Keyboard connects perfectly to my Windows laptop or Android phone.

What happens now is that when I try to use bluetoothctl to pair or connect the keyboard, it does not display any passcode to enter on the keyboard. It will sometimes connect (even though I'm asking it to pair?), but a few seconds later it disconnects and displays "Waiting to connect to bluetoothd..." Checking with ps -aux shows that the bluetoothd process is no longer running.

Code: Select all

[email protected]:~ $ bluetoothctl
[NEW] Controller B8:27:EB:F7:33:62 pi3Bplus [default]
[NEW] Device A0:A8:CD:D3:BF:ED KF_LAPTOP
[NEW] Device E5:FD:B7:6D:32:EB UniversalFoldableKb
[bluetooth]# power on
Changing power on succeeded
[bluetooth]# pairable on
Changing pairable on succeeded
[bluetooth]# agent on
Agent registered
[bluetooth]# default-agent
Default agent request successful
[bluetooth]# scan on
Discovery started
[CHG] Controller B8:27:EB:F7:33:62 Discovering: yes
[NEW] Device 46:56:3F:5B:6E:06 46-56-3F-5B-6E-06
[NEW] Device D7:30:0F:97:5D:78 N02A5
[NEW] Device F6:51:3E:0A:22:B8 N0CPR
[NEW] Device CE:12:04:09:05:98 Tile
[NEW] Device EB:59:8D:3E:4D:96 N0701
[NEW] Device 64:16:A6:67:49:F0 64-16-A6-67-49-F0
[NEW] Device FE:4F:F6:AA:4B:BE Tile
[CHG] Device E5:FD:B7:6D:32:EB RSSI: -42
[CHG] Device E5:FD:B7:6D:32:EB TxPower: 2
[CHG] Device E5:FD:B7:6D:32:EB UUIDs: 00001812-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
[CHG] Device EB:59:8D:3E:4D:96 RSSI: -75
[CHG] Device CE:12:04:09:05:98 RSSI: -68
[CHG] Device EB:59:8D:3E:4D:96 RSSI: -86
[CHG] Device CE:12:04:09:05:98 RSSI: -79
[bluetooth]# pair E5:FD:B7:6D:32:EB
Attempting to pair with E5:FD:B7:6D:32:EB
[CHG] Device E5:FD:B7:6D:32:EB Connected: yes
[NEW] Primary Service
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service0001
        00001801-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
        Generic Attribute Profile
[NEW] Characteristic
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service0001/char0002
        00002a05-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
        Service Changed
[NEW] Descriptor
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service0001/char0002/desc0004
        00002902-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
        Client Characteristic Configuration
[NEW] Primary Service
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service002a
        0000180f-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
        Battery Service
[NEW] Characteristic
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service002a/char002b
        00002a19-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
        Battery Level
[NEW] Descriptor
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service002a/char002b/desc002d
        00002902-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
        Client Characteristic Configuration
[NEW] Descriptor
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service002a/char002b/desc002e
        00002908-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
        Report Reference
[NEW] Primary Service
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service002f
        a74df799-13fd-4f82-a45a-0340180eac97
        Vendor specific
[NEW] Characteristic
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service002f/char0030
        343f8f87-ec68-41a7-a97f-3141b2424e1d
        Vendor specific
[NEW] Primary Service
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service0032
        00001016-d102-11e1-9b23-00025b00a5a5
        Vendor specific
[NEW] Characteristic
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service0032/char0033
        00001013-d102-11e1-9b23-00025b00a5a5
        Vendor specific
[NEW] Characteristic
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service0032/char0035
        00001018-d102-11e1-9b23-00025b00a5a5
        Vendor specific
[NEW] Characteristic
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service0032/char0037
        00001014-d102-11e1-9b23-00025b00a5a5
        Vendor specific
[NEW] Descriptor
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service0032/char0037/desc0039
        00002902-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
        Client Characteristic Configuration
[NEW] Primary Service
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service003a
        0000180a-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
        Device Information
[NEW] Characteristic
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service003a/char003b
        00002a26-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
        Firmware Revision String
[NEW] Characteristic
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service003a/char003d
        00002a50-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
        PnP ID
[CHG] Device E5:FD:B7:6D:32:EB UUIDs: 00001016-d102-11e1-9b23-00025b00a5a5
[CHG] Device E5:FD:B7:6D:32:EB UUIDs: 00001800-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
[CHG] Device E5:FD:B7:6D:32:EB UUIDs: 00001801-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
[CHG] Device E5:FD:B7:6D:32:EB UUIDs: 0000180a-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
[CHG] Device E5:FD:B7:6D:32:EB UUIDs: 0000180f-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
[CHG] Device E5:FD:B7:6D:32:EB UUIDs: 00001812-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
[CHG] Device E5:FD:B7:6D:32:EB UUIDs: 00001813-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
[CHG] Device E5:FD:B7:6D:32:EB UUIDs: a74df799-13fd-4f82-a45a-0340180eac97
[CHG] Device E5:FD:B7:6D:32:EB ServicesResolved: yes
[UniversalFoldableKb]# connect E5:FD:B7:6D:32:EB
Attempting to connect to E5:FD:B7:6D:32:EB
Connection successful
[UniversalFoldableKb]# trust E5:FD:B7:6D:32:EB
[CHG] Device E5:FD:B7:6D:32:EB Trusted: yes
Changing E5:FD:B7:6D:32:EB trust succeeded
[UniversalFoldableKb]# paired-devices
Device A0:A8:CD:D3:BF:ED KF_LAPTOP
[DEL] Descriptor
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service0001/char0002/desc0004
        00002902-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
        Client Characteristic Configuration
[DEL] Characteristic
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service0001/char0002
        00002a05-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
        Service Changed
[DEL] Primary Service
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service0001
        00001801-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
        Generic Attribute Profile
[DEL] Descriptor
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service002a/char002b/desc002d
        00002902-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
        Client Characteristic Configuration
[DEL] Descriptor
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service002a/char002b/desc002e
        00002908-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
        Report Reference
[DEL] Characteristic
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service002a/char002b
        00002a19-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
        Battery Level
[DEL] Primary Service
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service002a
        0000180f-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
        Battery Service
[DEL] Characteristic
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service002f/char0030
        343f8f87-ec68-41a7-a97f-3141b2424e1d
        Vendor specific
[DEL] Primary Service
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service002f
        a74df799-13fd-4f82-a45a-0340180eac97
        Vendor specific
[DEL] Characteristic
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service0032/char0033
        00001013-d102-11e1-9b23-00025b00a5a5
        Vendor specific
[DEL] Characteristic
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service0032/char0035
        00001018-d102-11e1-9b23-00025b00a5a5
        Vendor specific
[DEL] Descriptor
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service0032/char0037/desc0039
        00002902-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
        Client Characteristic Configuration
[DEL] Characteristic
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service0032/char0037
        00001014-d102-11e1-9b23-00025b00a5a5
        Vendor specific
[DEL] Primary Service
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service0032
        00001016-d102-11e1-9b23-00025b00a5a5
        Vendor specific
[DEL] Characteristic
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service003a/char003b
        00002a26-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
        Firmware Revision String
[DEL] Characteristic
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service003a/char003d
        00002a50-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
        PnP ID
[DEL] Primary Service
        /org/bluez/hci0/dev_E5_FD_B7_6D_32_EB/service003a
        0000180a-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
        Device Information
[CHG] Device E5:FD:B7:6D:32:EB Connected: no
[CHG] Device E5:FD:B7:6D:32:EB Connected: yes
[CHG] Device E5:FD:B7:6D:32:EB ServicesResolved: yes
[CHG] Device E5:FD:B7:6D:32:EB ServicesResolved: no
[CHG] Device E5:FD:B7:6D:32:EB Connected: no
[CHG] Device E5:FD:B7:6D:32:EB Connected: yes
[DEL] Controller B8:27:EB:F7:33:62 pi3Bplus [default]
Waiting to connect to bluetoothd...
Anyone with any ideas? Thanks!

kfairchild
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:39 am

Re: Bluetooth won't pair with keyboard, crashes

Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:25 am

Oh, I forgot to mention that prior to this, I tried pairing through the GUI. It saw the keyboard, and when I tried to pair, it said it was attempting to pair, but never displayed a code, so it would just wait and then eventually time out. Didn't seem to crash, though. FYI.

il_diavolo
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:56 pm

Re: Bluetooth won't pair with keyboard, crashes

Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:14 pm

Similar problem with Bluetooth and my PS3 controller. Working fine until I updated + upgraded last week. Now repeatedly connects and disconnects and won't pair. Reverted to the backup I made before the update and it works fine again. Perhaps I'll just never update again :(
Pi 3B
Stretch

jfree23
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:48 pm

Re: Bluetooth won't pair with keyboard, crashes

Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:22 pm

Similar problem here. bluetooth mouse works fine. Almost anything I do with keyboard fails and crashes bluetoothd.

Keyboard is not seen in scan until I press BT button on back, then it is seen, characteristics reported, then in few seconds characteristics are all deleted and bluetoothd crashes.

Best I got so far was this - connected, claimed to be paired, then crashed right away:

Code: Select all

[[bluetooth]# info FD:3F:A2:83:0B:59
Device FD:3F:A2:83:0B:59 not available
[NEW] Device FD:3F:A2:83:0B:59 Dell WK717Keyboard
[NEW] Primary Service
	/org/bluez/hci0/dev_FD_3F_A2_83_0B_59/service0008
	00001801-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
	Generic Attribute Profile
[NEW] Characteristic
	/org/bluez/hci0/dev_FD_3F_A2_83_0B_59/service0008/char0009
	00002a05-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
	Service Changed
[NEW] Descriptor
	/org/bluez/hci0/dev_FD_3F_A2_83_0B_59/service0008/char0009/desc000b
	00002902-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
	Client Characteristic Configuration
[NEW] Primary Service
	/org/bluez/hci0/dev_FD_3F_A2_83_0B_59/service000c
	0000180a-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
	Device Information
[NEW] Characteristic
	/org/bluez/hci0/dev_FD_3F_A2_83_0B_59/service000c/char000d
	00002a29-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
	Manufacturer Name String
[NEW] Characteristic
	/org/bluez/hci0/dev_FD_3F_A2_83_0B_59/service000c/char000f
	00002a26-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
	Firmware Revision String
[NEW] Characteristic
	/org/bluez/hci0/dev_FD_3F_A2_83_0B_59/service000c/char0011
	00002a50-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
	PnP ID
[NEW] Primary Service
	/org/bluez/hci0/dev_FD_3F_A2_83_0B_59/service0013
	0000180f-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
	Battery Service
[NEW] Characteristic
	/org/bluez/hci0/dev_FD_3F_A2_83_0B_59/service0013/char0014
	00002a19-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
	Battery Level
[NEW] Descriptor
	/org/bluez/hci0/dev_FD_3F_A2_83_0B_59/service0013/char0014/desc0016
	00002902-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
	Client Characteristic Configuration
[NEW] Primary Service
	/org/bluez/hci0/dev_FD_3F_A2_83_0B_59/service0017
	00001530-1212-efde-1523-785feabcd123
	Vendor specific
[NEW] Characteristic
	/org/bluez/hci0/dev_FD_3F_A2_83_0B_59/service0017/char0018
	00001532-1212-efde-1523-785feabcd123
	Vendor specific
[NEW] Characteristic
	/org/bluez/hci0/dev_FD_3F_A2_83_0B_59/service0017/char001a
	00001531-1212-efde-1523-785feabcd123
	Vendor specific
[NEW] Descriptor
	/org/bluez/hci0/dev_FD_3F_A2_83_0B_59/service0017/char001a/desc001c
	00002902-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
	Client Characteristic Configuration
[NEW] Characteristic
	/org/bluez/hci0/dev_FD_3F_A2_83_0B_59/service0017/char001d
	00001534-1212-efde-1523-785feabcd123
	Vendor specific
[CHG] Device FD:3F:A2:83:0B:59 UUIDs: 00001530-1212-efde-1523-785feabcd123
[CHG] Device FD:3F:A2:83:0B:59 UUIDs: 00001800-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
[CHG] Device FD:3F:A2:83:0B:59 UUIDs: 00001801-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
[CHG] Device FD:3F:A2:83:0B:59 UUIDs: 0000180a-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
[CHG] Device FD:3F:A2:83:0B:59 UUIDs: 0000180f-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
[CHG] Device FD:3F:A2:83:0B:59 UUIDs: 00001812-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
[CHG] Device FD:3F:A2:83:0B:59 ServicesResolved: yes
[CHG] Device FD:3F:A2:83:0B:59 Appearance: 0x03c1
[CHG] Device FD:3F:A2:83:0B:59 Icon: input-keyboard
[CHG] Device FD:3F:A2:83:0B:59 Modalias: usb:v413Cp2114d0001
[Dell WK717Keyboard]# info FD:3F:A2:83:0B:59
Device FD:3F:A2:83:0B:59
	Name: Dell WK717Keyboard
	Alias: Dell WK717Keyboard
	Appearance: 0x03c1
	Icon: input-keyboard
	Paired: no
	Trusted: no
	Blocked: no
	Connected: yes
	LegacyPairing: no
	UUID: Vendor specific           (00001530-1212-efde-1523-785feabcd123)
	UUID: Generic Access Profile    (00001800-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb)
	UUID: Generic Attribute Profile (00001801-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb)
	UUID: Device Information        (0000180a-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb)
	UUID: Battery Service           (0000180f-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb)
	UUID: Human Interface Device    (00001812-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb)
	Modalias: usb:v413Cp2114d0001
[Dell WK717Keyboard]# pair FD:3F:A2:83:0B:59
Attempting to pair with FD:3F:A2:83:0B:59
[CHG] Device FD:3F:A2:83:0B:59 Paired: yes
Pairing successful
[CHG] Device FD:3F:A2:83:0B:59 ServicesResolved: no
[CHG] Device FD:3F:A2:83:0B:59 Connected: no
[DEL] Controller B8:27:EB:21:01:E6 Pi4 [default]
[DEL] Primary Service
	/org/bluez/hci0/dev_FD_3F_A2_83_0B_59/service0008
	00001801-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
	Generic Attribute Profile
[DEL] Characteristic
	/org/bluez/hci0/dev_FD_3F_A2_83_0B_59/service0008/char0009
	00002a05-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
	Service Changed
[DEL] Descriptor
	/org/bluez/hci0/dev_FD_3F_A2_83_0B_59/service0008/char0009/desc000b
	00002902-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
	Client Characteristic Configuration
[DEL] Primary Service
	/org/bluez/hci0/dev_FD_3F_A2_83_0B_59/service000c
	0000180a-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
	Device Information
[DEL] Characteristic
	/org/bluez/hci0/dev_FD_3F_A2_83_0B_59/service000c/char000d
	00002a29-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
	Manufacturer Name String
[DEL] Characteristic
	/org/bluez/hci0/dev_FD_3F_A2_83_0B_59/service000c/char000f
	00002a26-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
	Firmware Revision String
[DEL] Characteristic
	/org/bluez/hci0/dev_FD_3F_A2_83_0B_59/service000c/char0011
	00002a50-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
	PnP ID
[DEL] Primary Service
	/org/bluez/hci0/dev_FD_3F_A2_83_0B_59/service0013
	0000180f-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb
	Battery Service
/code]  

With this not-too-informative status:
[code][[email protected]:~ $ sudo systemctl status bluetooth.service 
● bluetooth.service - Bluetooth service
   Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/bluetooth.service; enabled; vendor preset: enabled)
   Active: failed (Result: signal) since Tue 2019-06-18 16:04:26 EDT; 2min 21s ago
     Docs: man:bluetoothd(8)
  Process: 1736 ExecStart=/usr/lib/bluetooth/bluetoothd --noplugin=sap (code=killed, signal=SEGV)
 Main PID: 1736 (code=killed, signal=SEGV)
   Status: "Running"

Jun 18 16:04:25 Pi4 bluetoothd[1736]: Discover report descriptors failed: Request attribute has encountered an unlikely error
Jun 18 16:04:25 Pi4 bluetoothd[1736]: Error reading Report value: Request attribute has encountered an unlikely error
Jun 18 16:04:25 Pi4 bluetoothd[1736]: Discover report descriptors failed: Request attribute has encountered an unlikely error
Jun 18 16:04:25 Pi4 bluetoothd[1736]: Report Map read failed: Request attribute has encountered an unlikely error
Jun 18 16:04:25 Pi4 bluetoothd[1736]: Protocol Mode characteristic read failed: Request attribute has encountered an unlikely error
Jun 18 16:04:25 Pi4 bluetoothd[1736]: HID Information read failed: Request attribute has encountered an unlikely error
Jun 18 16:04:25 Pi4 bluetoothd[1736]: Error reading Report value: Request attribute has encountered an unlikely error
Jun 18 16:04:26 Pi4 systemd[1]: bluetooth.service: Main process exited, code=killed, status=11/SEGV
Jun 18 16:04:26 Pi4 systemd[1]: bluetooth.service: Unit entered failed state.
Jun 18 16:04:26 Pi4 systemd[1]: bluetooth.service: Failed with result 'signal'.
[email protected]:~ $ 
/code]

Any ideas to troubleshoot, or make that error even more unlikely (as in NEVER!   :))

Thanks

User avatar
Douglas6
Posts: 4738
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:34 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Bluetooth won't pair with keyboard, crashes

Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:57 pm

That last is clearly a BLE keyboard. I don't know what kind of support Raspian Stretch/BlueZ 5.43 has for these. You might try upgrading to BlueZ 5.50, but I'm not optimistic. The safest bet would be to stick to classic Bluetooth mice and keyboards.

[EDIT: As for the original poster: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/win ... 2455a205a8]

jfree23
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:48 pm

Re: Bluetooth won't pair with keyboard, crashes

Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:40 pm

To close this out for me, I can report that I did get my Dell WK717 keyboard to pair and it now works fine. Unfortunately I tried a LOT of things so I am not sure exactly what "fixed" it. I did uprev to bluez 5.50 which has slightly different behavior but did not immediately fix it.

While I was trying things and failing, I never got a pairing code to enter, from bluetoothctl or from the GUI. I believe that in many cases the pairing authorization times out waiting, and gives up. That should not really crash bluetoothd but at least sometimes, it does.

I know at some point I manually started the "agent" in bluetoothctl, which seems to be responsible for pairing codes and authorization. The agent seems to be registered automatically in bluez 5.50, but that did not help. However, one of the last things I did was to issue the default-agent command in bluetoothctl. I don't know what that does, or if there is a default agent before issuing that, or if it changes the default agent, whatever all that means, but when I tried to pair after that, i got a pairing code in bluetoothctl, entered it, and all worked after that!

I did remove the keyboard in bluetoothctl, reboot, went through the whole process again without issuing default-agent, and it worked again, so that is a mystery. I do believe it is critical to have an agent running when trying to pair, and it may only run while bluetoothctl is running, and also that it be the proper agent.

I also noticed that the keyboard MAC address (bluetooth ID) changed when I scanned after removing it. That seemed odd, I expected that ID to be persistent, but maybe that is expected.

Anyway, sorry I can't report on the root cause, but maybe this will give some clues or help someone else.

John

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