CanonEx
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:31 pm

USB ports not working at all after updating.

Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:46 am

Hello,so I got a raspberry pi 3B+ a week ago and everything was working fine until today.So I decided to update the raspberry pi by using the commands
-sudo apt-get update
-sudo apt-get upgrade
Which told me nothing was to update because I had done that this morning too
Then I did
-sudo rpi-update
After a few minutes it told me I needed to reboot for the update to apply,so I rebooted (the usual way by clicking the raspberry and choosing reboot)then everything was fine berry boot booted up and I let it automatically boot raspbian but then my usb peripherals weren’t working anymore, so I tried to change my mouse and my keyboard but they still did not work.I’ve looked through about 10 forums posts about this in the past hour and haven’t been able to get anything to work.I am very new to Linux and computer science so I’m not familiar with most commands that raspbian offers so I need clear instructions if possible,I have also already looked at the sticky post about this subject.

Specifications: Raspberry pi 3B+ running berryboot and raspbian connected to internet using onboard WiFi with no possibilities of using Ethernet at the moment.

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Imperf3kt
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Re: USB ports not working at all after updating.

Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:20 am

The issue is rpi-update
rpi-update is for bringing the latest firmware and other patches into your Pi, some of which are unstable.

It is not recommended to use rpi-update unless specifically instructed to by a Raspberry Pi engineer or you know exactly why you are doing it.

To fix your Pi, you will need to flash the operating system again or restore a backup.
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fruitoftheloom
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Re: USB ports not working at all after updating.

Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:05 am

CanonEx wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:46 am
Hello,so I got a raspberry pi 3B+ a week ago and everything was working fine until today.So I decided to update the raspberry pi by using the commands
-sudo apt-get update
-sudo apt-get upgrade
Which told me nothing was to update because I had done that this morning too
Then I did
-sudo rpi-update
After a few minutes it told me I needed to reboot for the update to apply,so I rebooted (the usual way by clicking the raspberry and choosing reboot)then everything was fine berry boot booted up and I let it automatically boot raspbian but then my usb peripherals weren’t working anymore, so I tried to change my mouse and my keyboard but they still did not work.I’ve looked through about 10 forums posts about this in the past hour and haven’t been able to get anything to work.I am very new to Linux and computer science so I’m not familiar with most commands that raspbian offers so I need clear instructions if possible,I have also already looked at the sticky post about this subject.

Specifications: Raspberry pi 3B+ running berryboot and raspbian connected to internet using onboard WiFi with no possibilities of using Ethernet at the moment.

Who informed you to run rpi-update, it is not a requirement of bringing Raspbian Stretch up to date:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... pdating.md
adieu

My other Computer is an Asus CS10 ChromeBit running Chrome Operating System.
HP Envy 4500 Wireless Printer supported by HPLIP software in Raspbian Buster.
Raspberry Pi Model 2B v1.1

hippy
Posts: 5360
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Location: UK

Re: USB ports not working at all after updating.

Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:18 pm

CanonEx wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:46 am
Then I did
-sudo rpi-update
As I said yesterday; more needs to be done to save users from themselves when they don't understand the consequences and risks of what they have been misled into doing.

CanonEx
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:31 pm

Re: USB ports not working at all after updating.

Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:22 pm

Imperf3kt wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:20 am
The issue is rpi-update
rpi-update is for bringing the latest firmware and other patches into your Pi, some of which are unstable.

It is not recommended to use rpi-update unless specifically instructed to by a Raspberry Pi engineer or you know exactly why you are doing it.

To fix your Pi, you will need to flash the operating system again or restore a backup.
Ok,thank you very much for the fast reply,I’m really dumb I guess,I’ll be more careful in the future. :|

carisbrookes
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: USB ports not working at all after updating.

Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:08 am

I am the latest unhappy member of this band with no usb's.
I used the upgrade command as a result of buying and fitting a rpi camera and following the instructions at:
https://thepihut.com/blogs/raspberry-pi ... -pi-camera
Are you saying I can fit a camera without doing this?

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rpdom
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Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

Re: USB ports not working at all after updating.

Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:27 am

carisbrookes wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:08 am
I am the latest unhappy member of this band with no usb's.
I used the upgrade command as a result of buying and fitting a rpi camera and following the instructions at:
https://thepihut.com/blogs/raspberry-pi ... -pi-camera
Are you saying I can fit a camera without doing this?
Firstly, step 4 in those instructions say you only need to run apt-get update and apt-get upgrade if the "camera" option doesn't show in raspi-config.

Secondly, they don't say to run rpi-update at all. It is the rpi-update that caused the problems in this thread.

The instructions do seem out of date. The camera option has been part of raspi-config for a long time now. That's a really old version that is shown.
The camera option is now under the "5 Interfacing Options" sub-menu as the first entry.

jamesh
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Re: USB ports not working at all after updating.

Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:42 am

hippy wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:18 pm
CanonEx wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:46 am
Then I did
-sudo rpi-update
As I said yesterday; more needs to be done to save users from themselves when they don't understand the consequences and risks of what they have been misled into doing.
Like what? Our docs already say don't use rpi-update unless told to by a Pi engineer. See https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/faqs/, or this page, which is quite expicit https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... pdating.md . I suppose we could change rpi-update so it give more warnings about not using unless told to, but it's not possible to change every other website out there. And of course, there is a BIG warning in rpi-update about compatibility. I wonder if that text needs to be altered/made clearer.

If you do find pages on OUR site that are unclear, please post an issue in the docs github repo.
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LTolledo
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Re: USB ports not working at all after updating.

Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:42 pm

Yah like asking the user 3 times (with 3 different "ultimatum" warnings) before actually executing the rpi-update command.....

Lets go for it! ;)
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Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

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jamesh
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Re: USB ports not working at all after updating.

Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:52 pm

The warning in rpi-update actually comes fro mthe firmware repo, https://github.com/Hexxeh/rpi-firmware/ ... /NOTICE.md.

I suppose a PR with appropriate changes might work.
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hippy
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Re: USB ports not working at all after updating.

Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:02 pm

jamesh wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:42 am
it's not possible to change every other website out there
And that's the problem. Naive and novice users are misled into thinking rpi-update needs to be used or should be used. Once they have got that notion into their head they go for it, and often bring a world of pain down upon themselves.

Once can either say "tough", "don't care", "not my problem", or try to save people from their own mistakes.

The simplest way to prevent running rpi-update when it shouldn't be run would be, as I suggested, to rename 'rpi-update' as something else; 'rpi-update-and-i-know-the-risks-involved', or anything which lowers the chance of them doing what they shouldn't.

It's the same principle as erecting barriers to stop people walking across a dangerous road when a "do not cross here" sign has proven not to be enough.
jamesh wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:42 am
And of course, there is a BIG warning in rpi-update about compatibility. I wonder if that text needs to be altered/made clearer.
I would expect anything additional would simply be clicked-through as must be happening with whatever currently exists.

But yes, anything which limits mistakenly running rpi-update is welcome. It's just that I don't think it will be enough.

Maybe it needs a blunt "if you were told to run rpi-update by some website that is probably bad information and might break your Pi. Only run rpi-update when explicitly told to by an RPi engineer. Ask on the forum first".

jamesh
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Re: USB ports not working at all after updating.

Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:16 pm

hippy wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:02 pm
jamesh wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:42 am
it's not possible to change every other website out there
And that's the problem. Naive and novice users are misled into thinking rpi-update needs to be used or should be used. Once they have got that notion into their head they go for it, and often bring a world of pain down upon themselves.

Once can either say "tough", "don't care", "not my problem", or try to save people from their own mistakes.

The simplest way to prevent running rpi-update when it shouldn't be run would be, as I suggested, to rename 'rpi-update' as something else; 'rpi-update-and-i-know-the-risks-involved', or anything which lowers the chance of them doing what they shouldn't.

It's the same principle as erecting barriers to stop people walking across a dangerous road when a "do not cross here" sign has proven not to be enough.
jamesh wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:42 am
And of course, there is a BIG warning in rpi-update about compatibility. I wonder if that text needs to be altered/made clearer.
I would expect anything additional would simply be clicked-through as must be happening with whatever currently exists.

But yes, anything which limits mistakenly running rpi-update is welcome. It's just that I don't think it will be enough.

Maybe it needs a blunt "if you were told to run rpi-update by some website that is probably bad information and might break your Pi. Only run rpi-update when explicitly told to by an RPi engineer. Ask on the forum first".
https://github.com/Hexxeh/rpi-firmware/pull/202/files
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LTolledo
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Re: USB ports not working at all after updating.

Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:17 pm

jamesh wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:52 pm
The warning in rpi-update actually comes fro mthe firmware repo, https://github.com/Hexxeh/rpi-firmware/ ... /NOTICE.md.

I suppose a PR with appropriate changes might work.



Just a crazy idea/suggestion:
....rpi-update only activates when correct one-time password supplied by RPF engineer/staff is entered by the "user"....
well... like mentioned above, its just a crazy idea..... ;)
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jamesh
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Re: USB ports not working at all after updating.

Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:42 pm

LTolledo wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:17 pm
jamesh wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:52 pm
The warning in rpi-update actually comes fro mthe firmware repo, https://github.com/Hexxeh/rpi-firmware/ ... /NOTICE.md.

I suppose a PR with appropriate changes might work.



Just a crazy idea/suggestion:
....rpi-update only activates when correct one-time password supplied by RPF engineer/staff is entered by the "user"....
well... like mentioned above, its just a crazy idea..... ;)
Too much work, puts unnecessary demands on engineers.
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B.Goode
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Re: USB ports not working at all after updating.

Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:55 pm

If you do find pages on OUR site that are unclear, please post an issue in the docs github repo.
I'll do that. https://github.com/raspberrypi/document ... ssues/1158

As mentioned in a similar recent thread, there is an example here of Raspberry Pi documentation that suggests running rpi-update with no cautions...
If you've checked all the above issues and the Camera Module is still not working, you may need to upgrade the firmware on the Raspberry Pi. Use the following command to get the very latest (but experimental) firmware:

sudo rpi-update
Ref: https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... /camera.md

(OK, so it does say "experimental", but it doesn't say it risks the stability of the system... And maybe that 'official' advice could be construed as being from 'an engineer'? )

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Re: USB ports not working at all after updating.

Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:48 pm

B.Goode wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:55 pm
If you do find pages on OUR site that are unclear, please post an issue in the docs github repo.
I'll do that. https://github.com/raspberrypi/document ... ssues/1158

As mentioned in a similar recent thread, there is an example here of Raspberry Pi documentation that suggests running rpi-update with no cautions...
If you've checked all the above issues and the Camera Module is still not working, you may need to upgrade the firmware on the Raspberry Pi. Use the following command to get the very latest (but experimental) firmware:

sudo rpi-update
Ref: https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... /camera.md

(OK, so it does say "experimental", but it doesn't say it risks the stability of the system... And maybe that 'official' advice could be construed as being from 'an engineer'? )
I've removed that paragraph, out of date anyway.
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DougieLawson
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Re: USB ports not working at all after updating.

Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:15 pm

You could also improve the "NOTICE.md" file at https://raw.githubusercontent.com/hexxe ... /NOTICE.md

Code: Select all

HASH: 152b6b858d2f6b94fa398fa4545d5e130ab24434
#############################################################
WARNING: This update bumps to rpi-4.19.y linux tree
Be aware there could be compatibility issues with some drivers
Discussion here:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=224931
##############################################################
So that it says "Please don't run rpi-update unless you have a tested backup of your system" (or suchlike).

Or do a pull request against https://github.com/Hexxeh/rpi-update/bl ... rpi-update to hard code that warning.
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Re: USB ports not working at all after updating.

Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:48 pm

Be aware there could be compatibility issues with some drivers
Discussion here:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=224931
I'm sorry but that's laughably weak. It doesn't in any way portray the amount of harm one is doing and the nightmare one is walking into when under the misapprehension one should be doing it.

"Could be". Does that mean "likely won't be", that it's just typical small print legal back-covering mumbo-jumbo, health and safety gone mad ? It will to many.

"Could be" is a long way off from "very likely will be" and "almost certainly will" which more accurately reflects the reality of things.

Many people using rpi-update because they were led to believe they should will presume those telling them to would know the risks and intend for them to run it anyway, just forgot to mention "you'll get a warning; just ignore it".

I'm yet to see an electrical substation with a notice which reads "This installation may contain electrical apparatus which may be injurious to health". No they all say "DANGER OF DEATH. KEEP OUT". No underplaying of risk there.

But it's not my problem. I've argued my case and that's all I really have to say. It would be nice to hear though why those who ran rpi-update had done so, why they just ignored what warnings there are, what in their opinion would have stopped them.

hippy
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Re: USB ports not working at all after updating.

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:02 pm

BTW this is the sort of post which has people believing rpi-update is the thing to use to fix things, the 'go to' if one is having problems ...
MarrsAttax wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:19 am
Re-installing the mouse and keyboard driver didn't work in my instance but gave me the idea to try updating everything else. After I updated the firmware with

Code: Select all

rpi-update
everything magically started working!
And that then leads to rpi-update becoming an explicit 'must do' step in instructions others may well be following, as here -

https://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianQuake3

andrum99
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Re: USB ports not working at all after updating.

Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:25 pm

jamesh wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:52 pm
The warning in rpi-update actually comes fro mthe firmware repo, https://github.com/Hexxeh/rpi-firmware/ ... /NOTICE.md.
And is currently out-of-date, since it warns about bumping the kernel to 4.19, which is the current kernel version available from the package repos. If the warning is that easy to edit, then perhaps it should just be changed to say something like "This tool is not indended for general use. Expect breakage. Unless a Raspberry Pi engineer has asked you to run this tool, or you are testing recent kernel changes, press CTRL+C to quit this tool now."
Last edited by andrum99 on Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

andrum99
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Re: USB ports not working at all after updating.

Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:27 pm

hippy wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:02 pm
BTW this is the sort of post which has people believing rpi-update is the thing to use to fix things, the 'go to' if one is having problems ...
MarrsAttax wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:19 am
Re-installing the mouse and keyboard driver didn't work in my instance but gave me the idea to try updating everything else. After I updated the firmware with

Code: Select all

rpi-update
everything magically started working!
And that then leads to rpi-update becoming an explicit 'must do' step in instructions others may well be following, as here -

https://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianQuake3
In the early days, running rpi-update did indeed get some useful fixes. That's going back 5 or 6 years though. Nowadays, I would expect rpi-update is just as likely to break something randomly as fix whatever issue a particular user is trying to fix.

andrum99
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Re: USB ports not working at all after updating.

Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:30 pm

B.Goode wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:55 pm
If you do find pages on OUR site that are unclear, please post an issue in the docs github repo.
I'll do that. https://github.com/raspberrypi/document ... ssues/1158

As mentioned in a similar recent thread, there is an example here of Raspberry Pi documentation that suggests running rpi-update with no cautions...
If you've checked all the above issues and the Camera Module is still not working, you may need to upgrade the firmware on the Raspberry Pi. Use the following command to get the very latest (but experimental) firmware:

sudo rpi-update
Ref: https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... /camera.md
Good catch. Perhaps someone at Pi towers should run a full text search on the docs for "rpi-update" to check for any further instances :D

andrum99
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Re: USB ports not working at all after updating.

Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:33 pm

hippy wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:48 pm
I'm yet to see an electrical substation with a notice which reads "This installation may contain electrical apparatus which may be injurious to health". No they all say "DANGER OF DEATH. KEEP OUT". No underplaying of risk there.
+1 to giving rpi-update a stronger warning when it is run. Also, a skeleton man page with this information would not go amiss either ;)

andrum99
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Re: USB ports not working at all after updating.

Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:17 pm

andrum99 wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:30 pm
<snip>Perhaps someone at Pi towers should run a full text search on the docs for "rpi-update" to check for any further instances :D
Just realised this is dead easy to do via the github web UI, so I did it and submitted pull requests to fix up all instances where it should be excised, and add stronger warnings where there is already a warning about its usage.

jamesh
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Re: USB ports not working at all after updating.

Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:21 pm

hippy wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:48 pm
Be aware there could be compatibility issues with some drivers
Discussion here:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=224931
I'm sorry but that's laughably weak. It doesn't in any way portray the amount of harm one is doing and the nightmare one is walking into when under the misapprehension one should be doing it.

"Could be". Does that mean "likely won't be", that it's just typical small print legal back-covering mumbo-jumbo, health and safety gone mad ? It will to many.

"Could be" is a long way off from "very likely will be" and "almost certainly will" which more accurately reflects the reality of things.

Many people using rpi-update because they were led to believe they should will presume those telling them to would know the risks and intend for them to run it anyway, just forgot to mention "you'll get a warning; just ignore it".

I'm yet to see an electrical substation with a notice which reads "This installation may contain electrical apparatus which may be injurious to health". No they all say "DANGER OF DEATH. KEEP OUT". No underplaying of risk there.

But it's not my problem. I've argued my case and that's all I really have to say. It would be nice to hear though why those who ran rpi-update had done so, why they just ignored what warnings there are, what in their opinion would have stopped them.
Long post, but you, and others, clearly didn't read the associated PR..... probably best to be a little more thorough before posting.
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